[drp087]

So I had a chance to rent a GR87 for a day and it was a blast to drive- took it to the canyons, and drove it harder than I ever did with my M2C. Got me thinking- should I be experiencing as many cars as I can, before the EV's come in?

For some background- I've always made practical choices with cars- First was a 05' G35 coupe, in AUTO (worst mistake, but thought it was the more "practical" thing at the time), and did quite a bit of cosmetic mods for a couple years- Coilovers, intake, wheels, bodykits, but after a couple years had to get a series of SUV's due to work.

Fast forward 10 years, I got the M2C in manual, and the mod bug came back. We all know modifying cars is not financially "practical" to begin with, but I try to keep myself in check by keeping a record of how much I spent, and budget myself. I also consider modding the M2 as a way to keep myself interested in the car to build some positive equity on the loan.

Yesterday, I had to get my annual Ceramic coating inspection and top coat done, and found a GR86 nearby on Turo. With all the raving reviews of it as the ultimate basic sports car, I was always curious how this car was on the twisties. Maybe since it's so light, or maybe since I wasn't babying it like my M2, but this thing was ridiculously fun and confidence inspiring that made me question- Why am I not enjoying all the different cars out there?

My rationale was always to keep the M2 for another 3 years until paid off, then I can keep modifying it as a forever car, or track car, and keep a separate daily- Maybe in the far distant future even sell it and get my GT3 dream car.

But my recent experience gets me thinking- should I be just saving the money on mods to try owning different cars in stock form, while they are still available? (New cars like the GR86, Supra Manual, G87, Cayman GTS, or even older cars like Caymans, E46 M3, S2K)

I feel like starting off from a used S2K as my first car would have changed a lot of perspectives on driving and car ownership by now, so let's see people's experiences!

[joshdub]

Just buy more cars. And when you run out of space buy more space so you can fit more cars.

[AllEyesOnMe]

I go canyon carving a few times a month in my '21 M2C and my group has a GR86. Like you said, they are very light and nimble and seems like a blast to drive in the canyons, but our M2Cs are faster no doubt. If you're in SoCal, I can hit you up next time we go carving so you can test out your M2Cs. Trust me, our cars are very capable in stock form in the canyons and a blast to drive. I'm actually looking forward to how much better it'd handle the twisties as I slowly upgrade suspension.

[smmmurf]

For road use, the GR86 is more fun. The smaller size is more manageable on tight roads, and the power level is not lacking for the posted speed limits. In contrast, the M2 is a bit boring on the canyons without driving irresponsibly.

I don't own a GR86 because my fun driving is exclusively on racetracks, where the M2 is substantially more robust and capable. Look up the oiling issues that the FA24 engine suffers from for more context.

Incidentally, my dedicated track car is a used, high-mileage S2000 with suspension and aero modifications.

[Brokenbones]

Totally agree. Driving a slow car fast is a lot of fun. Had s2000 for 10 years and could wind out redling every shift and take corners aggressively in the Malibu and Santa Monica mountains and still be... not totally anti-socially fast.

In comparison the M2C will feel less than lively on even canyon roads unless going 8/10ths. When I first got the M2 I was really initially disappointed with its heavy weight and slower responses even with moderately fun driving. It just stuck, no constantly managing over or understeer steer like old S2000 on Pilot SuperSports.
But my opinion changed after tracking, it especially in punishing conditions, where its feel changed and it started to drive like a sports car where felt like an eager puppy and kept asking to be pushed harder. Other than absolutely killing the tires and fading brakes, it withstood 4 days of 110+ air temps without so much as a stumble. Other cars were overheating before it even got hot.

Get GR87 and use daily. Pay off M2C, mod it for track.

[toned]

a friend of mine picked up a new 86 and I took it out for a few decent rips...the car's fun, light but slow. I think for a daily ripper around town, it's got a decent amount of power...you can wind it out and bang a few gears, and not break the speed limit 2x over like you can with the M2...but it lacks a lot of the luxuries we're used to....it ultimately comes down to what you want in a car...I would never trade my M2 for it, not even close

BUT, I'd pick one up as a daily without thinking twice...the cost of them in Canada is really cheap

[drp087]

In a perfect world I'd have the F87 for track, GR86 for canyons, and G87 for a daily, but with a new startup company and a marriage coming up I get only one, two if I am lucky.

I would never pick the GR86 over the M2C, I never realized how much I grew out of plastics, trim gaps, squeaks, and cheap interiors until I got into the GR86. Only when I got to the canyons that I realized its purpose, which, in effect now made me realize the M2's purpose- for the track.

In the grand scheme of things, I guess I just wished I enjoyed more of these cars from when I was first driving- in retrospect it was the perfect time to enjoy the S2K, e46, e92, Evo's, but didn't because they weren't "practical". The recent surge of enthusiast cars are at the last production, just want to experience the most out of them while I still can!

I guess that includes taking the M2 to the track soon!

[Geralt20]

I think owning and experiencing different cars is fantastic and I am all for it. However, after having been down this path over the last year and a half (switched cars 4 times), I can say that it comes with a few caveats IMO. The idea of constantly getting to try different cars is great and that does hold up most of the time, but like anything, the grass is not always greener on the other side. I personally find that the process of finding the right car, negotiating, purchasing, registering, insuring, etc. does get old over time. Especially in this current market where getting to test drive certain cars becomes difficult. And I think it is only fun to switch out cars when you have the financial bandwidth to do so; if you are constantly worried about depreciation or what you can sell it for when/if the time arises, then the allure of ownership wears off quickly for me.

I actually just switched from a manual GR86 to a manual M2 (OG, but similar path). The GR86 is great for its price and for what it is trying to accomplish - lightweight and great for curvy roads. But for my daily commute, the experience of that car got old very quickly. I think I would have loved it in my younger 20's, but after having acquired the M2, I really haven't thought twice about the GR86 (unlike some previous cars I have sold). I think the M2/M2C is just a much better and well rounded car.

Holding out for a GT3 sounds like the path to me, but at the end of the day, life is short!

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by drp087

Maybe in the far distant future even sell it and get my GT3 dream car.

This is the only line that matters.

If you have driven a GT3 and know for sure it's your dream car, then you should sell your F87 when the price is high and the condition is good, and save for the GT3 dream. Any other path is probably losing you money and putting you further from your dream.

"He who does not seek it at this very moment cannot expect to be shown it in the future."

"Discipline is denying yourself what you want NOW for what you want most."

Beyond that, if you're a real car guy I wouldn't worry about the 1-trick pony EV's...acceleration isn't everything.

I elected to make my Exige and my M2 forever cars. When I buy another car I'll be keeping those as well.

My Boys III by Andrew Thompson, on Flickr

[drp087]

I do agree on saving up for the GT3, but also wanted a well rounded experience with other cars to even be able to appreciate it as a comparison when I DO get it.

I bought a Ducati Scrambler as my first bike a few years ago- I sold it after a year and stopped riding since. In retrospect, I wished I had gone with a cheaper R3, Duke 390, something smaller/cheaper and actually ride it to its full potential and actually have more riding experience under my belt.

I got the similar feeling with the GR86, "driving a slow car fast" fun was far too addictive- However, the M2 has been far too versatile for my needs the last two years- Enough space to carry 4 wheels/tires, great daily, date-night acceptable, fun on the twisties- the only thing left is to track it. Think I will keep at this for at least another year or two to fully experience the baby M, and save up on the way.

Unless my upcoming 2022 tax return turns up to be enough to get a used Miata.....

[Bumpinjeep]

I would recommend driving a few cars if you can around the twisties to see if they scratch your itch. The whole driving a slow car fast is more fun than a fast car slow totally applies here. Also, check out a G87 if you can, it will behave differently than the F87C in the mountains, you may like it or you may hate it, never know until you do it.

[drp087]

Yea I was actually thinking the same thing- With Turo, I get to specifically pick enthusiast cars to take to the twisties for the weekend. I live in LA and theres a good variety of cars near me in manual- Miatas, GR86's, G87's, G80's, CTR, even some GT3's and GT3RS's!

Will this scratch the itch or open a can of worms?! lol

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

I would recommend driving a few cars if you can around the twisties to see if they scratch your itch. The whole driving a slow car fast is more fun than a fast car slow totally applies here. Also, check out a G87 if you can, it will behave differently than the F87C in the mountains, you may like it or you may hate it, never know until you do it.

[Brandt51]

I think I made my M2 a forever car, that or take a huge ass loss. That’s one way to keep disciplined with keeping neat cars, throwing too much money at them.

[NathObeaN]

Originally Posted by joshdub

Just buy more cars. And when you run out of space buy more space so you can fit more cars.

Sir, that response brightened my day, thank you . If ONLY life were that simple .

[timchump]

for me as the s55 is detuned/restricted in the m2c you have to experience it in its full glory before you move on, as a minimum CS/m4c remap and maybe a stage one if your feeling brave about the crank hub

[drp087]

I would prefer to keep my stock tune for now until I can fully handle the car to begin with, I've still yet to take it to an autocross or track, so I do see more years experiencing it to its full extent.
That said, I will rented a G87 for a day tomorrow- will be taking it to the canyons. I honestly don't see myself switching to the G87 right now, but I just wanted the experience just to scratch that itch.

[drp087]

So back from a full day with the G87, roughly about 2 hours normal city/highway driving, 4 hours of canyons.
First off, the MT shifter felt noticeably better than the F87 OEM! Probably not the BEST in class, but I'd say feel was pretty similar to the GR86 shifter. Suspension was plush on city roads and power seemed readily available, with throttle much more refined, power delivery was smoother than the F87.

The problem is, this was with the engine, steering, suspension all on the sportiest settings. Traction control was at middle. You see where this is going.

I honestly did not think I'd feel all the little differences as many journalists said, with the numb steering, "too refined" nature of the G87, but even after the first 30 minutes, it was all too "easy" and so consistent. Hard pulls on the F87 was always slightly different- sometimes the tires would chirp, sometimes the back would slide out, sometimes it would be planted and pull through. But with the G87, every pull was always the same- consistent, yes. fun? I don't know.

It just made me realize I still have a ways to go in being able to control the F87 fully, not to mention its more "raw" nature. The G87 also did feel heavier especially on downhills, but after getting used to it I think you do need to drive it differently than the F87. I am not very experienced in this so can't explain well, but just my instincts told me I need to just plow through the corners using its weight rather than kind of dashing through the corners as I did with the GR86.

That all being said, I've concluded the F87 to be the best balance for my needs right now. (Surprise! lol). Daily+Weekender+Track. Just need to spend more time driving!
Some pics for comparison.

[ThreeStripes]

Thanks for sharing. Different tools. Wish I had a black auto G87 to spread some daily miles over but alas.

[SilverScotty]

Originally Posted by drp087

So back from a full day with the G87, roughly about 2 hours normal city/highway driving, 4 hours of canyons.
First off, the MT shifter felt noticeably better than the F87 OEM! Probably not the BEST in class, but I'd say feel was pretty similar to the GR86 shifter. Suspension was plush on city roads and power seemed readily available, with throttle much more refined, power delivery was smoother than the F87.

The problem is, this was with the engine, steering, suspension all on the sportiest settings. Traction control was at middle. You see where this is going.

I honestly did not think I'd feel all the little differences as many journalists said, with the numb steering, "too refined" nature of the G87, but even after the first 30 minutes, it was all too "easy" and so consistent. Hard pulls on the F87 was always slightly different- sometimes the tires would chirp, sometimes the back would slide out, sometimes it would be planted and pull through. But with the G87, every pull was always the same- consistent, yes. fun? I don't know.

It just made me realize I still have a ways to go in being able to control the F87 fully, not to mention its more "raw" nature. The G87 also did feel heavier especially on downhills, but after getting used to it I think you do need to drive it differently than the F87. I am not very experienced in this so can't explain well, but just my instincts told me I need to just plow through the corners using its weight rather than kind of dashing through the corners as I did with the GR86.

That all being said, I've concluded the F87 to be the best balance for my needs right now. (Surprise! lol). Daily+Weekender+Track. Just need to spend more time driving!
Some pics for comparison.

One thing I think a lot overlook is that the G87 has wider front tires (275) than the F87 has in the rear (265). That's a lot of rubber which will make the car much more capable and predictable. I run 265/295 at the track and it's a completely different car. That said, I like running the smaller setup 245/265 for daily to keep the playful nature of the car. Once you beef up the rubber, the playful nature is gone and it turns into a track monster. Does that make if more numb? I don't know. I have a lot of work to do on the driver mod before I can answer that.

I do wonder what kind of numbers the F87 would put down with similar sized rubber as the G87 if put side by side. It would certainly take some of the launching issue away.

[drp087]

Originally Posted by SilverScotty

One thing I think a lot overlook is that the G87 has wider front tires (275) than the F87 has in the rear (265). That's a lot of rubber which will make the car much more capable and predictable. I run 265/295 at the track and it's a completely different car. That said, I like running the smaller setup 245/265 for daily to keep the playful nature of the car. Once you beef up the rubber, the playful nature is gone and it turns into a track monster. Does that make if more numb? I don't know. I have a lot of work to do on the driver mod before I can answer that.

I do wonder what kind of numbers the F87 would put down with similar sized rubber as the G87 if put side by side. It would certainly take some of the launching issue away.

Good point, I did notice more planted feel when I changed to PS4S's 255/275 from the OEM tires, makes me wonder if I should just go with PS4S's in regular 245/264 widths for daily use in the future.

The numbness I felt was more from the softness from the suspension as it was far superior in absorbing imperfections on the road. Maybe stiffer springs will fix it?

Even as I type this I keep making it sound like there's something wrong with the G87, but I'm just nitpicking- Just minuscule differences in characteristics.

[imperfectluck]

Can relate haven driven a few G80/2 certainly capable and consistent though the design still didn't bode well for me and I do enjoy that the F87 makes you actually work for it when you push the car, keeps me mentally engaged and smiling.

[fastb4ck]

I do the same thing, move on from car to car quite a bit, I feel like I have commitment issues!

So far my favorite car I've owned was a 2007 S2000, the only one I regret selling. I felt like I was able to use all of it, and it was a blast.

I've even owned a 981 gt4 at one point and I think I miss the s2000 more than the gt4 as well.