BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M2 Forum > M2 Photos, Videos and Builds > M2 vs. Focus RS - AutoExpress Track Battle

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-12-2016, 01:01 PM   #133
termigni
Lieutenant Colonel
termigni's Avatar
United_States
1080
Rep
1,761
Posts

Drives: S2000, MacanS, M4CS
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by techwhiz View Post
It may be a Ford but it's only about $36k.

No not lux but hey.

I'm not giving up my tuned e90 for either.
Neither one of them offers enough to sell my E90 and buy one.
The Ford feels cheap.
The M2 offers nothing better than my E90.

So here I am with an 8 year old car and absolutely no motivation to upgrade.
some how I know exactly what you mean.
__________________
2020 ///M4 CS, Alpine White, DCT

2018 ///M2 LCI, Metallic Orange, 6MT, Exec Pkg, Apple.. Sold

Instagram: Tommys911
Appreciate 0
      05-13-2016, 10:04 AM   #134
ilovewagons
First Lieutenant
426
Rep
346
Posts

Drives: 328i F31 M-Sport EB to MG F87
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Brisbane

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by termigni View Post
some how I know exactly what you mean.
Funny, I was stuck between an E90 M3 or a F80 M3. I just couldn't live with the F80's awful exhaust. For me, I didn't want to spend that kind of cash on a car and then have to find an exhaust to make it tolerable. However because it'll be my DD, I need stuff like a sat nav that wasn't built when George W Bush was still president, and things like auto-braking in traffic are just so good that I wanted to buy a new car.

I'd just about convinced myself to buy an E90, until I did a track day with the F80 M3, M2, and M235i. The M2 as a driving experience is just so much better than those other cars, plus modern equipment inside means it'll be a legit work car that won't piss me off because I have to pull over to read emailed documents or texted appointment changes. It will also be a far easier car to live with day to day than an E90, which (and I have driven one) can be less than inspiring under 4000rpm. I don't really sit in traffic and I almost never drive the same route every day so driver enjoyment is at the top of my list.

That said, I will still probably buy an E90 M3, because they're so underrated. People love to crap on them and don't get that they are probably the last great M car of the previous era. I would say that the M2 is the first great M car of the new turbo era and time will back me up.
Appreciate 0
      05-13-2016, 10:21 AM   #135
Robin_NL
S0THPAW
Robin_NL's Avatar
8680
Rep
7,846
Posts

Drives: HS M2 Competition
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

I had an E90 M3 from '08 to '10 , 6MT. Most overrated BMW(M) I ever had, and my current 1M is my 10th one. I also had an E46 M3(great).

Engine is way too weak in daily driving to feel it going, and on track it's a big fat pig, understeery, after 3 laps at MotoGP Assen my frontbrakes were on fire. Do I really need to go on? LOL

Crossplane V8....yeah a real racy engine....

Cheers
Robin
Appreciate 0
      05-14-2016, 05:32 AM   #136
ilovewagons
First Lieutenant
426
Rep
346
Posts

Drives: 328i F31 M-Sport EB to MG F87
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Brisbane

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
I had an E90 M3 from '08 to '10 , 6MT. Most overrated BMW(M) I ever had, and my current 1M is my 10th one. I also had an E46 M3(great).

Engine is way too weak in daily driving to feel it going, and on track it's a big fat pig, understeery, after 3 laps at MotoGP Assen my frontbrakes were on fire. Do I really need to go on? LOL

Crossplane V8....yeah a real racy engine....

Cheers
Robin
And yet the E90 I drove still felt more special than the F80 I drove. I never loved the E46 for almost exactly the same reasons you don't like the E90, other than the brakes, which were marginally better. Each to their own I suppose.
Appreciate 0
      05-14-2016, 08:31 AM   #137
adc
Major General
United_States
2725
Rep
6,750
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ED
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD/DC

iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
I had an E90 M3 from '08 to '10 , 6MT. Most overrated BMW(M) I ever had, and my current 1M is my 10th one. I also had an E46 M3(great).

Engine is way too weak in daily driving to feel it going, and on track it's a big fat pig, understeery, after 3 laps at MotoGP Assen my frontbrakes were on fire. Do I really need to go on? LOL

Crossplane V8....yeah a real racy engine....

Cheers
Robin
There is no stock BMW I have driven so far which has adequate brake pads for track use. On all the BMWs I've had so far I had to use racing pads. I am convinced the 1M is no different.

I had an E90 M3 for 6 years. To prep it for track, all I did was install GC camber plates and use Pagid RS19 on track. That's it, and it was a very good track car. Heavy, yes, but balanced and no understeer.

Are you going to try to convince me that the 1M, stock, was fully adequate for track? I see them at my local events, all of them have camber plates and pads at a minimum, many also have coilovers.
__________________

2018 F80 Santorini
2019 Z4 3.0i
2022 X2 M35i
Appreciate 0
      05-14-2016, 11:00 AM   #138
Robin_NL
S0THPAW
Robin_NL's Avatar
8680
Rep
7,846
Posts

Drives: HS M2 Competition
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
There is no stock BMW I have driven so far which has adequate brake pads for track use. On all the BMWs I've had so far I had to use racing pads. I am convinced the 1M is no different.

I had an E90 M3 for 6 years. To prep it for track, all I did was install GC camber plates and use Pagid RS19 on track. That's it, and it was a very good track car. Heavy, yes, but balanced and no understeer.

Are you going to try to convince me that the 1M, stock, was fully adequate for track? I see them at my local events, all of them have camber plates and pads at a minimum, many also have coilovers.
It's true I only have different brakepads and fluid(Pagid RS29) and nothing else. Car does not feel so much like a pig and understeer is far away vs E90 M3.

Oversteer on the other hand is everywhere

But each to their own. I just love a smaller more nimble and agile car in general(vs more HP)

But E90 M3 vs F82 M4. 100% M4. S55 is godlike.

Cheers
Robin
Appreciate 0
      05-14-2016, 11:02 AM   #139
Robin_NL
S0THPAW
Robin_NL's Avatar
8680
Rep
7,846
Posts

Drives: HS M2 Competition
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovewagons View Post
And yet the E90 I drove still felt more special than the F80 I drove. I never loved the E46 for almost exactly the same reasons you don't like the E90, other than the brakes, which were marginally better. Each to their own I suppose.
Yep agreed. My E46 M3 was a blast back in '02.

Cheers
Robin
Appreciate 0
      05-15-2016, 01:43 AM   #140
redux
WTF does Stage 1 mean?
redux's Avatar
273
Rep
311
Posts

Drives: Bwm and such
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Singapore, Los Angeles, and such

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 1M  [9.35]
Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
There is no stock BMW I have driven so far which has adequate brake pads for track use. On all the BMWs I've had so far I had to use racing pads. I am convinced the 1M is no different.

I had an E90 M3 for 6 years. To prep it for track, all I did was install GC camber plates and use Pagid RS19 on track. That's it, and it was a very good track car. Heavy, yes, but balanced and no understeer.

Are you going to try to convince me that the 1M, stock, was fully adequate for track? I see them at my local events, all of them have camber plates and pads at a minimum, many also have coilovers.
You're right, camber plates are a must for track work. The stock 1m was a great 8/10th's car. That short wheelbase makes it easy to play around with the opposite lock at that pace. Driving the car at 10/10 on the stock tires takes amount of concentration and talent that I could only pull off for about 5 laps before it would get the best of me. However, the unreasonable amount of driver input required to make the thing go fast is what makes it fun. If you're doing it wrong will understeer, if you're right it will understeer; both examples may led to a catastrophic amount of oversteer. My E90 M3 was far easier to manage during a 30 minute session, even more so with aftermarket pad and SS brake lines. Less torque and a longer wheelbase made for an easier drive
Appreciate 0
      05-15-2016, 07:44 AM   #141
adc
Major General
United_States
2725
Rep
6,750
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ED
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD/DC

iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
It's true I only have different brakepads and fluid(Pagid RS29) and nothing else. Car does not feel so much like a pig and understeer is far away vs E90 M3.

Oversteer on the other hand is everywhere

But each to their own. I just love a smaller more nimble and agile car in general(vs more HP)

But E90 M3 vs F82 M4. 100% M4. S55 is godlike.

Cheers
Robin
Quote:
Originally Posted by redux View Post
You're right, camber plates are a must for track work. The stock 1m was a great 8/10th's car. That short wheelbase makes it easy to play around with the opposite lock at that pace. Driving the car at 10/10 on the stock tires takes amount of concentration and talent that I could only pull off for about 5 laps before it would get the best of me. However, the unreasonable amount of driver input required to make the thing go fast is what makes it fun. If you're doing it wrong will understeer, if you're right it will understeer; both examples may led to a catastrophic amount of oversteer. My E90 M3 was far easier to manage during a 30 minute session, even more so with aftermarket pad and SS brake lines. Less torque and a longer wheelbase made for an easier drive

Guys, I was simply surprised when some of you mentioned tracking any BMW basically (other than a CSL or GTS) without camber plates. In my experience the front strut design requires more camber than available in stock form, otherwise you will destroy/cord the outer edge of the tire. Camber plates not only have the beneficial effect of reducing understeer, but they save your front tires so you don't have to buy so many of them.

BMW has gotten better over the years, generally, with front suspension geometry. Last year I took the F80 on track for the first time (with Pagids) and I was surprised at how well it did on stock everything else. It did chew more through the outer tire edge but not catastrophically so, and I'm waiting to see what it will do with some track rubber tomorrow.

It may still need a camber plate though. And I'd be surprised if the M2 didn't follow exactly in the same footsteps, given how much of the M3 suspension hardware it has...
__________________

2018 F80 Santorini
2019 Z4 3.0i
2022 X2 M35i
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2016, 04:17 PM   #142
Boss330
Major General
Boss330's Avatar
No_Country
1712
Rep
5,108
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
It's true I only have different brakepads and fluid(Pagid RS29) and nothing else. Car does not feel so much like a pig and understeer is far away vs E90 M3.

Oversteer on the other hand is everywhere

But each to their own. I just love a smaller more nimble and agile car in general(vs more HP)

But E90 M3 vs F82 M4. 100% M4. S55 is godlike.

Cheers
Robin
Quote:
Originally Posted by redux View Post
You're right, camber plates are a must for track work. The stock 1m was a great 8/10th's car. That short wheelbase makes it easy to play around with the opposite lock at that pace. Driving the car at 10/10 on the stock tires takes amount of concentration and talent that I could only pull off for about 5 laps before it would get the best of me. However, the unreasonable amount of driver input required to make the thing go fast is what makes it fun. If you're doing it wrong will understeer, if you're right it will understeer; both examples may led to a catastrophic amount of oversteer. My E90 M3 was far easier to manage during a 30 minute session, even more so with aftermarket pad and SS brake lines. Less torque and a longer wheelbase made for an easier drive

Guys, I was simply surprised when some of you mentioned tracking any BMW basically (other than a CSL or GTS) without camber plates. In my experience the front strut design requires more camber than available in stock form, otherwise you will destroy/cord the outer edge of the tire. Camber plates not only have the beneficial effect of reducing understeer, but they save your front tires so you don't have to buy so many of them.

BMW has gotten better over the years, generally, with front suspension geometry. Last year I took the F80 on track for the first time (with Pagids) and I was surprised at how well it did on stock everything else. It did chew more through the outer tire edge but not catastrophically so, and I'm waiting to see what it will do with some track rubber tomorrow.

It may still need a camber plate though. And I'd be surprised if the M2 didn't follow exactly in the same footsteps, given how much of the M3 suspension hardware it has...
Interestingly the recommended/std camber on the M4 GTS is just -1 deg 45'

I thought anywhere around -2.5 to -3.5 deg camber was a typical track day setting
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2016, 04:21 PM   #143
Boss330
Major General
Boss330's Avatar
No_Country
1712
Rep
5,108
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eugegall
1) Its a Ford
2) Its still a Ford
3) I'm not a boy racer

Thats why they shouldn't be compared.

Terrible comparison.
Did you say boy racer...???

Hmmmm... Wonder what kind of reputation us BMW drivers have then...

Appreciate 0
      05-19-2016, 11:41 PM   #144
confusion
Captain
confusion's Avatar
United_States
601
Rep
836
Posts

Drives: 2016 M2
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Did you say boy racer...???

Hmmmm... Wonder what kind of reputation us BMW drivers have then...
Not gonna lie... That was fucking awesome. Thanks for sharing a video that no one should celebrate. Including me. Still that was bad ass. No really, that guy is a bad person. (loved it)
Appreciate 1
      05-20-2016, 06:57 AM   #145
DS_BMW
Lieutenant Colonel
DS_BMW's Avatar
No_Country
1570
Rep
1,758
Posts

Drives: 2022 M4 comp, 22 M240
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Lancaster PA

iTrader: (1)

So what's harder to get now M2 or Focus RS? I have seen one M2 at a dealer but no RS. Unless they are not here yet...
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2016, 11:14 AM   #146
Boss330
Major General
Boss330's Avatar
No_Country
1712
Rep
5,108
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

UK magazine CAR set the M2 vs 718 Boxster vs Focus RS

This is their verdict:
Attached Images
  
Appreciate 1
      05-20-2016, 11:25 AM   #147
confusion
Captain
confusion's Avatar
United_States
601
Rep
836
Posts

Drives: 2016 M2
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
UK magazine CAR set the M2 vs 718 Boxster vs Focus RS

This is their verdict:
Cool summary. Sounds about right.
Appreciate 0
      06-08-2016, 06:40 PM   #148
technik330
Captain
289
Rep
666
Posts

Drives: STi
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Orange County

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eugegall View Post
1) Its a Ford
2) Its still a Ford
3) I'm not a boy racer

Thats why they shouldn't be compared.

Terrible comparison.
Less of this ignorant shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ynotony View Post
Different classes of cars are compared all the time. How many times have we seen BMW vs Porsche?

Also this was purely a "track battle", all they cared about was comparing the performance. The only requirement for a "track battle" is that performance levels of both cars are reasonably similar. It doesn't matter if one is a practical 5-door hatch and the other is an entry level luxury sports coupe, as long as the performance is close.

It's not like it was M2 vs a Ford Escape - that would have been irrelevant and stupid.
More of all of that.
__________________
Technik 330 Past Projects:
'05 BMW 330Ci ZHP - Technik's ZHP *Sold*
'07 Subaru STI - *Sold*
'18 Subaru STi Type RA #350
'19 Honda Civic Type R #31191
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:12 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST