[raysspl]

My buddy helped shoot this!

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

I love how now that the M2 is out, the F8x is shit in everybody's eyes. Lol.

The M2 is going to be just as fast as the M4 on short tracks, this has been proven. It won't outrun the M4 on a long track, that has been proven as well.

I'd consider an M2 but I just can't get past some of the cost cutting BMW did to the M2. I would have paid a few more thousand dollars for a CFRP roof and M-Mirrors and a set of decent seats.

Where the M4 really shines over the M2 will be in aftermarket tuning as the M2 is still using the same N55 turbo the M235i is equipped with. I'd take the S55 over the N55 any day because of its potential. The M2 will be lucky to see 420whp on the stock turbo.

So, the M2 is awesome, but the M4 is still worth the premium.

What the hell is it with people and these damn M mirrors? They already said that 1) they don't fit on the car 2) the aero is better without them. 3) yes, the cost cutting.

I can see the complaint of not having the carbon fiber roof, and the seats, but even the 991 911 GT3 RS doesn't have a CF roof, it has a magnesium roof.

Furthermore, we don't how the M4 will shine over the M2 in the aftermarket, that seems to be more speculative justification. The M2 has just been released.

And no, the F8X is not shit in everybody's eyes. It still is formidable, it's just that to some reviewers that they were disappointed in the F8X and now you have the M2 which ticks all the right boxes, like its a turbo'd remix of the e46 M3. If all these reviews are saying it's fun to drive, tossable, puts a smile on people's faces, maybe, just maybe it may be true. Maybe you might want to test drive one. But this Haterade that some of ya'll are drinking must be that sour Apple flavor.

[Royce Martin]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

What the hell is it with people and these damn M mirrors? They already said that 1) they don't fit on the car 2) the aero is better without them. 3) yes, the cost cutting.

I can see the complaint of not having the carbon fiber roof, and the seats, but even the 991 911 GT3 RS doesn't have a CF roof, it has a magnesium roof.

Furthermore, we don't how the M4 will shine over the M2 in the aftermarket, that seems to be more speculative justification. The M2 has just been released.

And no, the F8X is not shit in everybody's eyes. It still is formidable, it's just that to some reviewers that they were disappointed in the F8X and now you have the M2 which ticks all the right boxes, like its a turbo'd remix of the e46 M3. If all these reviews are saying it's fun to drive, tossable, puts a smile on people's faces, maybe, just maybe it may be true. Maybe you might want to test drive one. But this Haterade that some of ya'll are drinking must be that sour Apple flavor.

+1 they're just tough critics.

[tetsuo111]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

you need to stop reading reviews and start driving performance cars, then your comments would be substantiated with facts instead of MT reviews.

c and d has replaced the 10 best car for the 2 series instead of the 3. the reason has really more to do with the cost of the cars than the ranking of the car in the segment. i.e. cayman/boxster (10 best) vs the 911 (not 10 best)

while it is true that competitors have caught up, death of M cars is wildly exaggerated.

I have had plenty of performance cars and M cars and know plenty of guys that owned multiple M cars and disagree with you. That should tell you something.

@dkhM3. You seem very sensitive today.

My first few cars were Porsche 911s. I go to the track to instruct. I haven't read the car magazines in years and really don't care what they write. I'm perfectly able to make my informed decisions independent of help from others.

My favorite quote is:

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I have had plenty of performance cars and M cars and know plenty of guys that owned multiple M cars and disagree with you. That should tell you something.

Not clear what you're telling me? Please explain.

My comments are simply one-person's opinion - mine. If they differ from yours, let's agree to disagree. Or if you feel strongly, try articulating your thoughts more clearly. I challenge you to do better than "I have an M and know people who know people that saw an M and we disagree with you".

Too funny.

P.S. I have some M-decals I'll sell to you. They're guaranteed to match your M-Power designer jeans

[tetsuo111]

Thanks, Royce Martin, for your civil comment.

But.... If I understand correctly, I think that we're in agreement.

The M2 interests me not for the price. I'm attracted by it's reasonable size and weight. I hope it drives well, too.

Originally Posted by Royce Martin

I disagree, this is an M2.

This car is simply pointing to a different type of crowd. It's MSRP is 50k+, this isn't honda, acura, hyundai. It's not really much you're going to get out of $50,000 at BMW.

Now when you're paying $100,000+ there's alot BMW gives you. This is a really great car for what it's priced.

The new gens will never be like then old ones only because it's not only enthusiasts purchasing M line cars these days. The demand for M's have grown and appeal to many type of drivers and buyers.

[Royce Martin]

Originally Posted by tetsuo111

Thanks, Royce Martin, for your civil comment.

But.... If I understand correctly, I think that we're in agreement.

The M2 interests me not for the price. I'm attracted by it's reasonable size and weight. I hope it drives well, too.

I believe it will, as the review showed.

BMW wants to sell to every price range, this is competition at the end of the day. There goes a car that doesn't break your bank meanwhile still keeping some of its M features.

This car will be a great seller in it's class.

[ginginha]

I got to see the M2 in person for the first time this weekend at the La Jolla Concourse D'Elegance. Man, does it look good! Better in person than in pictures. I only sat in the passenger seat, so I didn't notice the driver's side angle, but the seat was very comfortable. I wouldn't be disappointed in the seats at all if I was an M2 owner. They may lack some of the visual appeal of the bespoke M3/M4 seats, but so what, they feel good.

These reviews honestly confuse me, though. Clearly, when matched up against the M3/M4, performance of the M2 is on par. I just don't understand why they think it's a better car. I know first hand the M3 is a lot of fun. My car puts a smile on my face every time I get into it, and especially every time I really push it. The thing is just awesome. So when I see the M2 put up identical performance numbers, I wonder how is it better? Makes no sense to me. If some see better value, ok, I get that. The M2 is less expensive. But some of these comparos say it's a better car. I don't get it.

Another poster here commented on the initial positive reviews of the M3/M4 and I think he's right. This seems more like a recency bias than anything.

But, if I was 10 years younger and had two fewer kids, I'd give the M2 a real hard look. BMW isn't doing itself any favors with its M2 leasing rates, so I'd have to take that into account. But the $15k difference between the two models is significant - especially with such even performance.

[Mdecisive]

That m4 traps much higher let's not forget

(Can't wait for my m2 though)

[Hazey82]

Originally Posted by Ghetto2315

I came from an E46 and E92 M3. I now have a M4. I got the chance to flog the new M2. Today being the third time in 5 days. I'm no pro driver but I have plenty of track time under my belt and can hold my own. And perhaps I need to get some seat time behind the M2 on the track but I don't get what all the fuss is about. And I work for BMW. To me, it's just a smaller, tad bit slower, slightly more nimble version of an M4.

For those who haven't driven the M2 in-person yet (let alone an F8X) which is about 98% of you, I don't see how you can have a valid argument of how it's better or worse. What's even more head scratching is how some of you guys comment how good the M2 sounds or how much better it sounds than the F8X but you've only heard it through a computer/phone speakers and not in real life. It's constant regurgitating facts and opinions from info you read from a car mags on here.

For all the praise this car is getting, you would think it came with solid gold bars in the trunk and the F8X had bags of dog shit the way this forum and auto journalists talk about them lol

Totally agree. I drove them back to back and the M2 is not M enough in my opinion. The engine feels like a m235i (because it is) just with some more ASD.
Everyone forgets that journos just jump on the band wagon and regurgitate press release . This is a real M car blah blah. Well then why didn't you give it an oil gauge. M mirrors, M buttons, seats. Heck even a M2 badge on the door sills like every other real M car.
I'm sick of the cost argument because it's invalid. If BMW can waste money engineering a new seat for the Comp M3 then they can do the things mentioned above.

I chose the F80 because the M2 skimped on what I mentioned. But I will admit that I wish the M3 was smaller.

Drive the M2 and then jump in the M3/M4 and you immediately see where the M2 is lacking.

M2 no doubt is more fun because it's more playful and the limits are accessible more than the F80. And the items I mentioned become not important. I get that. But I don't see any justification for people to hate on the M3 or M4 especially when they have not driven them

[Eddien123]

Originally Posted by stvding

No M1/2 button, no M drive setting, no m mirror, no m seat

While these are downsides. I feel like they're something for someone on the Internet to complain about. When someone drives it they'll forget these

[csbear]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy34

I 100% agree on the cost cutting. At least create better seats and give it to us as an OPTION. I would totally pay extra to elevate the interior on this car.
m2 is without a doubt a looker from the outside, but from the perspective of the driver, the interior is disappointing.

I may get some grief on this but this is the main reason I'm currently considering placing an order for a 2017 CLA45 over the M2. Mercs seats are a work of art, and the interior is overall significantly nicer.

Yes, I would have paid the extra bucks for a better interior as well, but I am ok with what the M2 has now. The GT4 interior (I had carbon fiber, full leather on dash, etc.) was superb, but surprisingly when I saw the M2 interior, I didn't mind at all for whatever reason. As a total package, the M2 is a steal.

You are right, the CLA45 interior is nicer than the M2, but unless you need the 4 doors, I would find it tough to take a CLA45 (turbo 4, with subpar transmission) over a M2 (manual or DCT). Especially with the very high praise the M2 is getting vs. the lukewarm reception the CLA45 got.

Not sure how soon you need the car, but maybe an RS3 instead of a CLA45?

[///M2-PILOT]

A///Mazing, the Ultimate DRIVERS ///Machine!

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by tetsuo111

@dkhM3. You seem very sensitive today.

My first few cars were Porsche 911s. I go to the track to instruct. I haven't read the car magazines in years and really don't care what they write. I'm perfectly able to make my informed decisions independent of help from others.

My favorite quote is:



Not clear what you're telling me? Please explain.

My comments are simply one-person's opinion - mine. If they differ from yours, let's agree to disagree. Or if you feel strongly, try articulating your thoughts more clearly. I challenge you to do better than "I have an M and know people who know people that saw an M and we disagree with you".

Too funny.

P.S. I have some M-decals I'll sell to you. They're guaranteed to match your M-Power designer jeans

I will look to you when I have opinions on 911 then.

As for M cars, you have no perspective and nothing to add here. let's pick apart your original post:

YOU: I get what they're saying. BMW chose to make bigger, fatter, poorer handling cars compared with the icons that put the company on driving enthusiasts map, like the E46 M3, original E30 M3, and 2002tii.

How? You didn't drive M cars over the course of generations.
E46 was not an "icon", Like any other recent M car it did not stand alone, it was bested by the B6 S4 on car and driver/ Top Gear loved it- i know, i owned both cars. Stop reading magazines and regurgitating their "icon" bs.

YOU: Now the M badge carries as much cache as a "Calvin Klein" label on a pair of designer jeans. I used to stop and pay respect to the classic M cars. Now when I see an M3/4 it reminds me of dads Buick.

There is no substance to this. The M3/M4 lap times are equal or better than it's competition, ATS-V, C63S- are you saying that the C63S is also your 'DADS' BUICK?'

I did a comparision on C63S track times vs the M3/M4 on fastest laps. Let's just say it isn't your dad's buick or calvin klein.

Where is your substance? Your opinion is based on what? You're too funny.

[tetsuo111]

Not necessary to be defensive. It's only a car.

We value different things about what defines "fun to drive" in a car. Thank goodness for this, or all cars would be identical. Where would the fun be in that?

You're happy with your M. Good for you! Celebrate your good fortune. Not everyone gets joy from their ride.

I shared a different opinion. I'm ok that you hold a different opinion than me. Sometimes I even learn from others with a different perspective than mine. Sadly I learned nothing from you.

P.S. I drove an M two weeks ago on track. I drove a different M a couple of months earlier on street, and another not too long before that.

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I will look to you when I have opinions on 911 then.

As for M cars, you have no perspective and nothing to add here. let's pick apart your original post:

YOU: I get what they're saying. BMW chose to make bigger, fatter, poorer handling cars compared with the icons that put the company on driving enthusiasts map, like the E46 M3, original E30 M3, and 2002tii.

How? You didn't drive M cars over the course of generations.
E46 was not an icon, it was bested by the B6 S4 on car and driver- i know, i owned both cars.

YOU: Now the M badge carries as much cache as a "Calvin Klein" label on a pair of designer jeans. I used to stop and pay respect to the classic M cars. Now when I see an M3/4 it reminds me of dads Buick.

There is no substance to this. The M3/M4 lap times are equal or better than it's competition, ATS-V, C63S- are you saying that the C63S is also your 'DADS' BUICK?'

I did a comparision on C63S track times vs the M3/M4 on fastest laps. Let's just say it isn't your dad's buick or calvin klein.

Where is your substance? Your opinion is based on what? You're too funny.

Attachment 1399754

[WWM3]

No M mirrors and no special seats. Those items have always determined the driving dynamics of M cars and always will.

[DGod]

Terrific car, brings a lot of excitement regarding the present and future of the M division. Still I'll wait for the facelift/GTS/CS/CSL/whatever version of it. That will be a mandatory car in any petrolhead's garage, not this one. I wouldn't be able to love it with those little flaws...

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

What the hell is it with people and these damn M mirrors? They already said that 1) they don't fit on the car 2) the aero is better without them. 3) yes, the cost cutting.

I can see the complaint of not having the carbon fiber roof, and the seats, but even the 991 911 GT3 RS doesn't have a CF roof, it has a magnesium roof.

You know that a magnesium roof is even more special than CF right? It's 2.2 pounds lighter than CF would've been, it's never been done before even on race cars, and there's currently only one company in the world capable of making it.

I agree with your general point though. If it had all the stuff people are grousing about, they'd complain that it was too expensive for a 2 Series. Too bad it didn't get upscale seat leather like other M cars have had relative to series cars. Hate that basketball leather.....

[ChrisK]

I had an e46 M3 and an e92 M3, and was going to order an F82 M4 this year...

What is it that draws me to the M2 - the size. Plain and simply I miss the size of the e46 M3. I loved my e92 M3, but it was big!

Where is my allocation spot!

[Em/1]

And it wasn't Porsche; they contracted it out

[DS_BMW]

Originally Posted by Hazey82

Totally agree. I drove them back to back and the M2 is not M enough in my opinion. The engine feels like a m235i (because it is) just with some more ASD.
Everyone forgets that journos just jump on the band wagon and regurgitate press release . This is a real M car blah blah. Well then why didn't you give it an oil gauge. M mirrors, M buttons, seats. Heck even a M2 badge on the door sills like every other real M car.
I'm sick of the cost argument because it's invalid. If BMW can waste money engineering a new seat for the Comp M3 then they can do the things mentioned above.

I chose the F80 because the M2 skimped on what I mentioned. But I will admit that I wish the M3 was smaller.

Drive the M2 and then jump in the M3/M4 and you immediately see where the M2 is lacking.

M2 no doubt is more fun because it's more playful and the limits are accessible more than the F80. And the items I mentioned become not important. I get that. But I don't see any justification for people to hate on the M3 or M4 especially when they have not driven them

Its all to make it a lower price of admission to get into an M car. The low residual defeats the purpose I think thought because most people lease there BMW instead of buy them. Its all hype, maybe when it dies down. Residual will go up.

[Peertwelve]

What a relief! Recent bad press for the M brand had me a little bummed. Glad to see that M Division is able to deliver an engaging and enthusiast oriented coupe. Now if I could find one!

[Cuz5150]

Not in for $53+ K.
No M mirrors
No M seats
No carbon roof
No carbon drive shaft
No CCB option
No power dome(why? WTF) How much does it cost to stamp a crease?
No special colors to be ordered
Unless they pull something down the line, like a CSL and it can be easily obtain with out jumping through dealership hoops/loops....
I'll keep driving my nice E46s' M3's