[BruceM]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

So, the M2 is awesome, but the M4 is still worth the premium.

Not so fast, my friend. It isn't worth the premium to me and others, and I can afford both cars.

It all depends on what you value. I don't value M mirrors, or Merino leather or funky exterior and interior colors or a multitude of "driving experience" buttons the M4 offers that the M2 doesn't. I value instead what the M2 offers that the M4 doesn't, at least as described in the video. The fact that I can get it cheaper just makes it all the more desirable to me.

The biggest advantage for me of the M4 over the M2 right now, by far, is availability. I hope BMW addresses that before I'm too fucking old to drive

[Sportsguy34]

Originally Posted by cole3488

no want/need for a manual? or rwd?

I've had my manual 135i for years now and on some days I love it. On others I'm tired of shifting gears in city traffic and spinning tires on launch.
Maybe I'm just looking for a change, but consistent 0-100 times and a DCT are very appealing right now.
In an perfect world I'd take a manual LBB M2 and a CLA45 for daily. I just think having a manual M2 as a daily for X more years will be tiring.

Most of the time I find myself on city streets and not on a racetrack, unfortunately.

[M3 Number 86]

Finally! Camissa said it was on MT svod for a month before on YouTube.

I'm frankly getting sick of this subscription based crap everyone is trying to do. It only works for Netflix and Hulu.

[cole3488]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy34

I've had my manual 135i for years now and on some days I love it. On others I'm tired of shifting gears in city traffic and spinning tires on launch.
Maybe I'm just looking for a change, but consistent 0-100 times and a DCT are very appealing right now.
In an perfect world I'd take a manual LBB M2 and a CLA45 for daily. I just think having a manual M2 as a daily for X more years will be tiring.

Most of the time I find myself on city streets and not on a racetrack, unfortunately.

you could get a used f-type for a good price. I agree with you on the amg interior vs the bmw. I have a 2002 330ci and the interior is almost the same as my new 2016 m2 lol.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Ghetto2315

I came from an E46 and E92 M3. I now have a M4. I got the chance to flog the new M2. Today being the third time in 5 days. I'm no pro driver but I have plenty of track time under my belt and can hold my own. And perhaps I need to get some seat time behind the M2 on the track but I don't get what all the fuss is about. And I work for BMW. To me, it's just a smaller, tad bit slower, slightly more nimble version of an M4.

For those who haven't driven the M2 in-person yet (let alone an F8X) which is about 98% of you, I don't see how you can have a valid argument of how it's better or worse. What's even more head scratching is how some of you guys comment how good the M2 sounds or how much better it sounds than the F8X but you've only heard it through a computer/phone speakers and not in real life. It's constant regurgitating facts and opinions from info you read from a car mags on here.

For all the praise this car is getting, you would think it came with solid gold bars in the trunk and the F8X had bags of dog shit the way this forum and auto journalists talk about them lol

I hear you and we'll see how it compares to the M4 when it arrives.

I will say a couple of things... the M2 is getting far more consistent and universal praise than the F8X M3/4 did. The M3/4 had good reviews and also some less than positive reviews. It doesn't mean everyone is right (or that you or I would necessarily agree) but I haven't seen a review yet that wasn't positive and almost ALL of them speak to the better "fun factor", "feel" and other subjective things compared to the M3/4. Again, they may be wrong but there is a pretty resounding agreement on this in the journalistic world. To me, that means something notwithstanding it is in no way conclusive.

What that does say to me is that BMW built a fun, smaller and more toss-able M car... likely more so than any of its larger siblings. So, for some people a smaller, more nimble and maybe more "raw" version of an M4 for a large price discount is pretty appealing.

[Carnook]

BMW take my money!!!

[VCP]

M Garching knows what they are doing

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

I love how now that the M2 is out, the F8x is shit in everybody's eyes. Lol.

The M2 is going to be just as fast as the M4 on short tracks, this has been proven. It won't outrun the M4 on a long track, that has been proven as well.

I'd consider an M2 but I just can't get past some of the cost cutting BMW did to the M2. I would have paid a few more thousand dollars for a CFRP roof and M-Mirrors and a set of decent seats.

Where the M4 really shines over the M2 will be in aftermarket tuning as the M2 is still using the same N55 turbo the M235i is equipped with. I'd take the S55 over the N55 any day because of its potential. The M2 will be lucky to see 420whp on the stock turbo.

So, the M2 is awesome, but the M4 is still worth the premium.

[Manbnda]

The M2 seems to be an extraordinary car. What a joy!

***
Not that it is a big deal, but I don't think MT is against BMW.
I think bimmerpost doesn't like to read/watch any criticism about BMW.

The last ignition video about the M4 vs Camaro SS was very informative, but we can't take it, so the post doesn't get a front page place here.

[Yeineken]

Originally Posted by Prodigy.

Great video, thanks for posting.

Well I think BMW would be crazy not to make a GT, Competition and possibly CSL after all the great feedback they are getting from the M2.

I'll take a CSL please.


* not sure why I randomly quoted you.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by gthal

I hear you and we'll see how it compares to the M4 when it arrives.

I will say a couple of things... the M2 is getting far more consistent and universal praise than the F8X M3/4 did. The M3/4 had good reviews and also some less than positive reviews. It doesn't mean everyone is right (or that you or I would necessarily agree) but I haven't seen a review yet that wasn't positive and almost ALL of them speak to the better "fun factor", "feel" and other subjective things compared to the M3/4. Again, they may be wrong but there is a pretty resounding agreement on this in the journalistic world. To me, that means something notwithstanding it is in no way conclusive.

What that does say to me is that BMW built a fun, smaller and more toss-able M car... likely more so than any of its larger siblings. So, for some people a smaller, more nimble and maybe more "raw" version of an M4 for a large price discount is pretty appealing.

I only disagree with the "consistent and universal praise" vs the M3M4. if you rewind to around june/july of 2014, when the 2015 was just coming out, MT gave great and glowing reviews of the F8X. Carlos said- paraphrasing- "C63, ATS-V, they're going to have a lot of work cut out for them," "so balanced" "easy to control- elicit understeer/oversteer at will," etc.

If you re read the c and d articles, same praise and concerns on the m2- i.e. steering, and feel of the car (sterile, etc).

Not saying the M2 is not a great car, it is. Hindsight isn't always 20/20.

i'd rewatch these MT videos:

[Ghetto2315]

Originally Posted by gthal

I hear you and we'll see how it compares to the M4 when it arrives.

I will say a couple of things... the M2 is getting far more consistent and universal praise than the F8X M3/4 did. The M3/4 had good reviews and also some less than positive reviews. It doesn't mean everyone is right (or that you or I would necessarily agree) but I haven't seen a review yet that wasn't positive and almost ALL of them speak to the better "fun factor", "feel" and other subjective things compared to the M3/4. Again, they may be wrong but there is a pretty resounding agreement on this in the journalistic world. To me, that means something notwithstanding it is in no way conclusive.

What that does say to me is that BMW built a fun, smaller and more toss-able M car... likely more so than any of its larger siblings. So, for some people a smaller, more nimble and maybe more "raw" version of an M4 for a large price discount is pretty appealing.

And I'm definitely picking up what you're putting down here.



Hmmmm perhaps there was sooo much for the M3/M4 name to live up to and the competitors in that segment (C63S, ATS-V, etc) have caught up while for the M2, that segment is wide open for the M2 to dominate with not much competition to begin with so the bar was set lower...

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by 64-bit

I'm 100% with you, the roof looks incomplete without CF roof or even a moonroof.

Plus the interior quality looks cheap as well.

Since my driveway is not a racing track, I rather ride on my refined 2016 M3 all day long (ok, I wished that my M3 was a tad smaller) but still, I would not trade it for a M2.

Comparing a 4 door and a Coupe. M3 Is more refined for a reason.

One is a finely tailored suit the other is an oversized fancy overcoat.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Ghetto2315

I came from an E46 and E92 M3. I now have a M4. I got the chance to flog the new M2. Today being the third time in 5 days. I'm no pro driver but I have plenty of track time under my belt and can hold my own. And perhaps I need to get some seat time behind the M2 on the track but I don't get what all the fuss is about. And I work for BMW. To me, it's just a smaller, tad bit slower, slightly more nimble version of an M4.

For those who haven't driven the M2 in-person yet (let alone an F8X) which is about 98% of you, I don't see how you can have a valid argument of how it's better or worse. What's even more head scratching is how some of you guys comment how good the M2 sounds or how much better it sounds than the F8X but you've only heard it through a computer/phone speakers and not in real life. It's constant regurgitating facts and opinions from info you read from a car mags on here.

For all the praise this car is getting, you would think it came with solid gold bars in the trunk and the F8X had bags of dog shit the way this forum and auto journalists talk about them lol

3rd M3 for me, and I couldn't agree with you more. I have thoroughly enjoyed this M3 and plan on keeping this car for the long haul.

Not making light of the M2. I think BMW did a great job with it.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by tetsuo111

I get what they're saying.

BMW chose to make bigger, fatter, poorer handling cars compared with the icons that put the company on driving enthusiasts map, like the E46 M3, original E30 M3, and 2002tii.

Now the M badge carries as much cache as a "Calvin Klein" label on a pair of designer jeans. I used to stop and pay respect to the classic M cars. Now when I see an M3/4 it reminds me of dads Buick.

There's good reasons why contemporary 3 series and M cars no longer make it on 10 best lists.

Not meaning to offend. But dismissing all journalists because you disagree misses an opportunity to understand what made the older cars into classics and why many enthusiasts are left cold by the new products.

Having vented, the new M2 is the sole current product offering from BMW I would consider
buying. It's spirit is most closely aligned with this driving enthusiast's.

you need to stop reading reviews and start driving performance cars, then your comments would be substantiated with facts instead of MT reviews.

c and d has replaced the 10 best car for the 2 series instead of the 3. the reason has really more to do with the cost of the cars than the ranking of the car in the segment. i.e. cayman/boxster (10 best) vs the 911 (not 10 best)

while it is true that competitors have caught up, death of M cars is wildly exaggerated.

I have had plenty of performance cars and M cars and know plenty of guys that owned multiple M cars and disagree with you. That should tell you something.

[Gato Grande]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Wait what? The M2 doesn't have these things? Why is this the first I am hearing of this? Piss poor excuse of an M car is what it is. I'm calling my dealer right now.

Right?!?! They crapped on the M4 with only CCB vs the camaro. Propaganda.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by 1230vani

Unfortunately don't have a photo but the carbon fibre interior is awesome, has real texture when you touch it (unlike the smooth one in m3/m4).

It's just like the CF that has been out for years with the F30. I'll take smooth.

[pruettfan]

It is disappointing to see these reviews turn into a inter-family squabble rather than a celebration that us folks who love BMW's have an additional choice. I love the M3/4 and I am sure I will love my M2 when it arrives. Being able to have a real M car within my budget is a great thing, I know it doesn't have a carbon fiber roof, carbon drive shaft etc but I am totally cool with that. From what I have read BMW figured out how to keep this car simple and relatively inexpensive and drive great which should be a celebration for all of us. I suspect the next generation M4/3 will have some of that DNA mixed in it also. I am a BMW fan so anything BMW builds that is great I love, it doesn't matter if I own it or not.

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

I love how now that the M2 is out, the F8x is shit in everybody's eyes. Lol.

The M2 is going to be just as fast as the M4 on short tracks, this has been proven. It won't outrun the M4 on a long track, that has been proven as well.

I'd consider an M2 but I just can't get past some of the cost cutting BMW did to the M2. I would have paid a few more thousand dollars for a CFRP roof and M-Mirrors and a set of decent seats.

Where the M4 really shines over the M2 will be in aftermarket tuning as the M2 is still using the same N55 turbo the M235i is equipped with. I'd take the S55 over the N55 any day because of its potential. The M2 will be lucky to see 420whp on the stock turbo.

So, the M2 is awesome, but the M4 is still worth the premium.

You sure about that? Pretty sure the turbo hasn't been confirmed yet.

Also, totally not worth it for me personally. Would still take the M2 over the M4 at the same price.

[Crowden]

Satch mentioned in Roundel and I didn't get around to checking. But this vid made me do so. Yup, the driver's seat is oriented toward the left, not straight ahead. BUT. When I try carefully to line up the steering wheel to the front cluster and then check the seat as well, they're all in line. So the setup from seat to wheel to instruments is aligned, just the angle of the whole shebang isn't straight front to back.

Worth noting that I've felt zero unhappiness in my back/legs/whatever, even during a five hour shot down to LA. So whatever alignment issue there are; they don't manifest themselves as a problem.

I read these reviews with interest and will be equally interested in getting behind the wheel of an M2 at some point. I ordered my 235 with the limited slip and the performance exhaust, and so have fewer items to "wish I had" than if I'd gotten the standard 235. Certainly the exhaust is more than roarty enough for me. Snap crackles and pops like a champ. The limited slip is more difficult to quantify, at least for the driving I've done to this point. I "think" I feel it but perhaps I'm just fooling myself.

Anyway, my own take was (and is) that the M235i is absolutely an ultimate driving machine and fully has lived up to my expectations of it. If I tracked a lot I would probably be more enamored of the M2 but for my usage, I suspect I'll simply be signing up for a new M235 when my lease is up. But time will tell.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I only disagree with the "consistent and universal praise" vs the M3M4. if you rewind to around june/july of 2014, when the 2015 was just coming out, MT gave great and glowing reviews of the F8X. Carlos said- paraphrasing- "C63, ATS-V, they're going to have a lot of work cut out for them," "so balanced" "easy to control- elicit understeer/oversteer at will," etc.

If you re read the c and d articles, same praise and concerns on the m2- i.e. steering, and feel of the car (sterile, etc).

Not saying the M2 is not a great car, it is. Hindsight isn't always 20/20.

There were LOTS of positive M3/4 reviews, no doubt!! All I was suggesting is that it felt, to me anyway, like there was a higher level of dissatisfaction with the car than the M2 based on early reviews. The only slightly negative review (and it is slight) of the M2 that I recall reading is the C&D one you mentioned.

BTW, I don't agree with the less favourable M3/4 reviews... I think the car is great All I was suggesting is there seems to be very little complaints about the M2's performance, driving characteristics and fun factor on a relative basis.

Originally Posted by Ghetto2315

And I'm definitely picking up what you're putting down here.

Hmmmm perhaps there was sooo much for the M3/M4 name to live up to and the competitors in that segment (C63S, ATS-V, etc) have caught up while for the M2, that segment is wide open for the M2 to dominate with not much competition to begin with so the bar was set lower...

There may be something to this... the expectation for the M3/4 is universally so high, it is maybe difficult to meet. However, I also think the expectation for the M2 was high.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

You sure about that? Pretty sure the turbo hasn't been confirmed yet.

Also, totally not worth it for me personally. Would still take the M2 over the M4 at the same price.

really not sure about the turbos. only thing i can find is mt:

"BMW kept the single-turbo N55 from the M235i, but fitted it with pistons from the S55. These two BMW 3.0-liter straight-sixes share bore (84.0mm), stroke (89.6mm), and compression ratios (10.2:1) but that’s it. "

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-...t-test-review/

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by gthal

There were LOTS of positive M3/4 reviews, no doubt!! All I was suggesting is that it felt, to me anyway, like there was a higher level of dissatisfaction with the car than the M2 based on early reviews. The only slightly negative review (and it is slight) of the M2 that I recall reading is the C&D one you mentioned.

BTW, I don't agree with the less favourable M3/4 reviews... I think the car is great All I was suggesting is there seems to be very little complaints about the M2's performance, driving characteristics and fun factor on a relative basis.



There may be something to this... the expectation for the M3/4 is universally so high, it is maybe difficult to meet. However, I also think the expectation for the M2 was high.

You know I'll be waiting for your review. I know you'll be unbiased