[ptper]

A little late in posting in this thread, but saw this from CarBahn a few weeks ago:

For the 2021 model year, BMW has modified its computer system to make it more difficult for aftermarket tuners to interact with the car. The team at CarBahn Autoworks has been working around the clock to interact with the 2021 models. We have recently acquired a new tool system that will make it easier for us to tune the 2021 models, but as of right now, we are unsure of when that will be. Once we have managed to interact with the vehicles, the software will come shortly after. The team is also looking into other solutions of tuning, such as performance ECU, to work on the 2021 platform.

[kimbow]

Originally Posted by ptper

A little late in posting in this thread, but saw this from CarBahn a few weeks ago:

For the 2021 model year, BMW has modified its computer system to make it more difficult for aftermarket tuners to interact with the car. The team at CarBahn Autoworks has been working around the clock to interact with the 2021 models. We have recently acquired a new tool system that will make it easier for us to tune the 2021 models, but as of right now, we are unsure of when that will be. Once we have managed to interact with the vehicles, the software will come shortly after. The team is also looking into other solutions of tuning, such as performance ECU, to work on the 2021 platform.

Here in the UK my tuner has the idea of cloning my encrypted DME to an unencrypted earlier model donor M2 DME. I dont really understand the technical aspects of this but he has been talking to a guy in Lithuania from a tuning forum who says he thinks this would work. Anyone have any opinions on this?

[Enabled]

Originally Posted by kimbow

Here in the UK my tuner has the idea of cloning my encrypted DME to an unencrypted earlier model donor M2 DME. I dont really understand the technical aspects of this but he has been talking to a guy in Lithuania from a tuning forum who says he thinks this would work. Anyone have any opinions on this?

It's a lot of work, but it has no issues working out. I'm doing that currently, and so far there hasn't been any roadblocks that I couldn't get past.

[Enabled]

Originally Posted by ptper

A little late in posting in this thread, but saw this from CarBahn a few weeks ago:

For the 2021 model year, BMW has modified its computer system to make it more difficult for aftermarket tuners to interact with the car. The team at CarBahn Autoworks has been working around the clock to interact with the 2021 models. We have recently acquired a new tool system that will make it easier for us to tune the 2021 models, but as of right now, we are unsure of when that will be. Once we have managed to interact with the vehicles, the software will come shortly after. The team is also looking into other solutions of tuning, such as performance ECU, to work on the 2021 platform.

These are very general comments from them, and actually some are not correct at all.
They're sugar coating the fact that it isn't possible yet, but they'd like to have their customers still looking at them?

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by ptper

A little late in posting in this thread, but saw this from CarBahn a few weeks ago:

From personal experience, I would take what Carbahn says with a grain of salt. All marketing tactics. They don't seem to understand their own products with older DMEs, let alone what they would need to unlock the newest ones.

-I was 100% set to get my car tuned with Carbahn.
-I checked with them 3 times to ensure that I can use their remote flashing tool before placing an order and using my VIN number they confirmed that it would work. 3 times!
-It wasn't a question of "we may run into issues", but they were confident that it works.
-Fast forward, and the remote flashing tool didn't work after they had to "troubleshoot" with some company in Italy.
-They said, "don't worry, take it to the BMW dealer (Carbahn Partner) and they can unlock it via ODB2 port. It will take them 1-1.5 hours at the very most."
-I took it to the dealer, they were nice enough to even give me a rental. One day passed, nothing. Next day came and the dealer said "we can't unlock this via OBD2, it will cost $500 to bench unlock."

I called Carbahn and said that I don't mind keeping the product (even without ability to flash myself) if you want to cover the difference between what they promised me (charge of remote flashing tool, which I would return) and what BMW says it needs to happen for this to work. They refused.

Needless to say the dealer was not happy. Carbahn wasted their time. They had to give out a rental for 2 days based on Carbahn's claims, which were wrong. Rental could have been used for people who actually needed service done. Thankfully BMW did not charge me anything for wasting their time.

I viewed it not only as a bait and switch tactic, but they are making the customer and BMW do the troubleshooting that they should be doing - not to mention the cost of time for everyone invovled (including the customer.) Not once did they say "sorry for wasting your time and continually giving you wrong information, driving to dealership at 7 AM for a 40 minute round trip during a pandemic, driving back...etc.)" They are basically viewing cases like this as "we can't predict" when other companies have clearly figured out a way how to do this.

I would expect something like this from a good company that I would ever consider purchasing a product from:

Either:

1. Have a program available that can perform a check whether their product works before purchase.
2. Have the option for the customer to go to the dealer and confirm BEFORE purchasing and wasting many peoples' time.

Instead, what I got was:

1. "Oh it asbsolutely works!"
2. "Sorry, method 1 didn't work (even though they were confident it would), but we have method 2 which absolutely works."
3. "Sorry, we can't predict these issues."
4. "To get it to work, you have to pay more than 2x of what the remote flashing tool costs (which we were confident would work) and you won't even have the option to go to stock yourself without paying the dealer again."

Carbahn basically said that they can't predict the software on the car, yet were very confident to confirm that it works when payment was made just using my VIN number. Some sort of disclaimer would be very useful here because had it been there, I would have never purchased their remote flashing tool in first place.

BM3 on the other hand can confirm beforehand if their license will work. Strange how that works. If I ever get my car tuned eventually, I know who I'll be going with.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by Enabled

These are very general comments from them, and actually some are not correct at all.
They're sugar coating the fact that it isn't possible yet, but they'd like to have their customers still looking at them?

Absolutely, 100% correct. I saw this after my post above. I wish I would have known how they worked before wasting a lot of time.

I can only imagine what a nightmare it would be to have to go through a warranty claim with them after BMW refuses a repair due to tune! My whole view on this company has basically turned180 degrees in the last couple of weeks. I would never consider any of their products again!

[NathObeaN]

Originally Posted by Megator

Not 100% true. You can find tons of places that will unlock the S55 for 100E or so.

So its a 100E tax to get it unlocked localy and then upload BM3/MHD/ECUTek or whatever. As soon as my warranty runs out that is what I am doing.

And this is kind of my point. It's 'nice to have' OBD unlocking in the sense that if you want to flash your ECU, you still can and it's not that difficult, it's just not as convenient. You can still visit a garage to get it done (and there are lots out there).

Tuning directly over OBD is a relatively recent convenience anyway. For years people have been visiting garages to get their cars tuned. Suddenly losing that new ability won't cripple the tuning industry (especially when it's limited in it's impact to various models anyway).

Don't get me wrong, not supporting OBD flashing will lose companies like PTF money, but it won't be critical to their revenue generation. Not being able to tune a car's ECU, at all, has much wider ramifications for tuners and garages all over the world. Especially when you consider this change affects cars across BMW's range, present and future, plus many other car brands already including Mini, Toyota etc. For that reason I think we're more likely to see a solution.

Time will tell though.

[Rumbloki]

Originally Posted by NathObeaN

Tuning directly over OBD is a relatively recent convenience anyway.

If you think 20+ years ago is recent.

[kimbow]

Originally Posted by Enabled

It's a lot of work, but it has no issues working out. I'm doing that currently, and so far there hasn't been any roadblocks that I couldn't get past.

I will let you know how we get on

[Enabled]

Originally Posted by kimbow

I will let you know how we get on

You probably wouldn't be able to clone it at all, since you will risk the DME during reading using bench tools. Many bench tools send a temporary modified Bosch bootloader to be able to do the read and writes without opening the DME. That is what is secured against tampering. You risk bricking the DME completely. I opted not to touch the original DME and rather build up the spare older DME with all the data I need manually.

[NathObeaN]

Originally Posted by Rumbloki

If you think 20+ years ago is recent.

For N/S55 I meant.

[kimbow]

Originally Posted by Enabled

You probably wouldn't be able to clone it at all, since you will risk the DME during reading using bench tools. Many bench tools send a temporary modified Bosch bootloader to be able to do the read and writes without opening the DME. That is what is secured against tampering. You risk bricking the DME completely. I opted not to touch the original DME and rather build up the spare older DME with all the data I need manually.

Thanks for the feedback. I am meeting with my tuner tomorrow and will put these comments to him.
Have a look at the G Power M2CS they've just built, awesome!
Somehow they have got round the encryption.

[Enabled]

Originally Posted by kimbow

Thanks for the feedback. I am meeting with my tuner tomorrow and will put these comments to him.
Have a look at the G Power M2CS they've just built, awesome!
Somehow they have got round the encryption.

Let me know how it goes!

Most often these M2CS have been sitting on lots a bit, and they're pre 07/2020 build dates. Then the job becomes much easier.

I'm over 80% done with a friend's DME job, and I can confirm it will work. I had to acquire lots of specialized tools, but they'll see other use for sure.

That or does anyone in and near Houston need an OBD unlock?

[kimbow]

Originally Posted by Enabled

Let me know how it goes!

Most often these M2CS have been sitting on lots a bit, and they're pre 07/2020 build dates. Then the job becomes much easier.

I'm over 80% done with a friend's DME job, and I can confirm it will work. I had to acquire lots of specialized tools, but they'll see other use for sure.

That or does anyone in and near Houston need an OBD unlock?

Will keep you updated. My car is a late build so has the encrypted DME. ECU comes off in a week or so and going to a clever computer chap in Lithuania to have the files read and copied to a donor ECU which is a pre encrypted one. We will then fit the earlier ECU back to the car....if it starts were in business and can tune.....if it doesn't start then original ECU goes back on and we wait..

[Enabled]

Originally Posted by kimbow

Will keep you updated. My car is a late build so has the encrypted DME. ECU comes off in a week or so and going to a clever computer chap in Lithuania to have the files read and copied to a donor ECU which is a pre encrypted one. We will then fit the earlier ECU back to the car....if it starts were in business and can tune.....if it doesn't start then original ECU goes back on and we wait..

Let me know what happens either way. I presume the attempted read may cause issues with the original DME. I avoided tampering with anything in the original DME and extracted what I needed from the FEM.

[Karmic Man]

Bosch ECU security engineer

Job Description
Modern vehicles are increasingly equipped with internet connectivity, which in turn is making vehicle IT systems more vulnerable to attacks. These systems must be protected against unauthorized access by intruders who may attempt to manipulate the ECU software (e.g. tuning) or manipulate the vehicle’s anti-theft mechanism (immobilizer). There is also a risk that criminals could misuse the internet connection of the vehicle to access the in-vehicle communication system and carry out targeted manipulation of the vehicle’s behaviour.

HSM security firmware ensures secure boot of the ECU, secure in-vehicle communication, ECU component protection and secure flashing.

Job nature:

Develop security firmware for HSM on different platforms: ST SPC58x, Aurix TriCore, RH850,...
Perform qualification for security firmware.
Cover full product development lifecycle.
Apply Scrum framework in software development.
Have opportunity on-site yearly in Germany.


Qualifications
Mandatory requirement:

Career path is technical oriented.
Experience in Embedded C, with solid knowledge of the language specification
Familiarity with embedded systems design and low-level hardware interactions
Strong system thinking and analytical skills
Nice to have:

Have ability to communicate and collaborate with all team members.
Willingness to learn and work in a scaled agile environment (SAFe + Scrum)
Basic knowledge of cryptographic algorithms and protocols is a plus.
Basic knowledge in automotive domain (AUTOSAR, SHE, ISO26262) is a plus

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

Bosch ECU security engineer

Job Description
Modern vehicles are increasingly equipped with internet connectivity, which in turn is making vehicle IT systems more vulnerable to attacks. These systems must be protected against unauthorized access by intruders who may attempt to manipulate the ECU software (e.g. tuning) or manipulate the vehicle’s anti-theft mechanism (immobilizer). There is also a risk that criminals could misuse the internet connection of the vehicle to access the in-vehicle communication system and carry out targeted manipulation of the vehicle’s behaviour.

HSM security firmware ensures secure boot of the ECU, secure in-vehicle communication, ECU component protection and secure flashing.

Job nature:

Develop security firmware for HSM on different platforms: ST SPC58x, Aurix TriCore, RH850,...
Perform qualification for security firmware.
Cover full product development lifecycle.
Apply Scrum framework in software development.
Have opportunity on-site yearly in Germany.


Qualifications
Mandatory requirement:

Career path is technical oriented.
Experience in Embedded C, with solid knowledge of the language specification
Familiarity with embedded systems design and low-level hardware interactions
Strong system thinking and analytical skills
Nice to have:

Have ability to communicate and collaborate with all team members.
Willingness to learn and work in a scaled agile environment (SAFe + Scrum)
Basic knowledge of cryptographic algorithms and protocols is a plus.
Basic knowledge in automotive domain (AUTOSAR, SHE, ISO26262) is a plus

You're hired. Can you start on Monday?

[M2_MEDUSA]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

Bosch ECU security engineer

Job Description
Modern vehicles are increasingly equipped with internet connectivity, which in turn is making vehicle IT systems more vulnerable to attacks. These systems must be protected against unauthorized access by intruders who may attempt to manipulate the ECU software (e.g. tuning) or manipulate the vehicle’s anti-theft mechanism (immobilizer). There is also a risk that criminals could misuse the internet connection of the vehicle to access the in-vehicle communication system and carry out targeted manipulation of the vehicle’s behaviour.

HSM security firmware ensures secure boot of the ECU, secure in-vehicle communication, ECU component protection and secure flashing.

Job nature:

Develop security firmware for HSM on different platforms: ST SPC58x, Aurix TriCore, RH850,...
Perform qualification for security firmware.
Cover full product development lifecycle.
Apply Scrum framework in software development.
Have opportunity on-site yearly in Germany.


Qualifications
Mandatory requirement:

Career path is technical oriented.
Experience in Embedded C, with solid knowledge of the language specification
Familiarity with embedded systems design and low-level hardware interactions
Strong system thinking and analytical skills
Nice to have:

Have ability to communicate and collaborate with all team members.
Willingness to learn and work in a scaled agile environment (SAFe + Scrum)
Basic knowledge of cryptographic algorithms and protocols is a plus.
Basic knowledge in automotive domain (AUTOSAR, SHE, ISO26262) is a plus

Everyone qualified should apply so we can get it cracked

[Harrison kayy]

Originally Posted by msdss

I just got sent this e-mail from a friend of mine who was trying to get his brand new A90 Supra tuned. Take what you will from it... But be glad that you only need a bench unlock for your M2C, because you might need a fucking custom ECU in the future...

UPDATE: 8/20 build confirmed by Carbahn to have new ECU.

My m2C is august 2020 build, I had my DME data pulled and my DME date is 22/March/2020.

Will this be tuneable or locked ?

[AUSf22]

Originally Posted by Superdaws

So further to this post from earlier, i had the time to check my MVED ECU build date. Im definitely on a "Version 2" ECU, bench unlockable.

Car build date 23 June 2020.
Bosch MVED ECU build date 18 Mar 2020.

As FaRKle! said, you can check ECU build date in ISTA without removing anything. Call up ECU functions.

Im wondering if anyone who pulls up a "Version 3" locked ECU in ISTA could check if their HWEL version is _003. It might show the Hardware layer version also matches the ECU version.

Finally managed to get a ISTA read on two post june production M2 comps.

Here is mine, 03 July 2020 car build date -> DME build date is 27/05/20

A friends car is August 2020 car build date -> DME build date for his is 22/03/2020

Very interesting that my car is older but his newer car came with the older DME. The second car seemed to have his programming done after it landed in the country.

What are your thoughts on tuneability?

[Superdaws]

Originally Posted by AUSf22

Finally managed to get a ISTA read on two post june production M2 comps.

Here is mine, 03 July 2020 car build date -> DME build date is 27/05/20

A friends car is August 2020 car build date -> DME build date for his is 22/03/2020

Very interesting that my car is older but his newer car came with the older DME. The second car seemed to have his programming done after it landed in the country.

What are your thoughts on tuneability?

I don't think I've read that anyone knows definitively what DME date is totally encrypted and not bench unlockable. Tuners are just suggesting "car" build dates from June 20, but has anyone said anything about a DME build date?

Likelihood is the March 20 DME will be bench unlockable, but your Apr DME would be a big maybe.

I responded to HarrisonK in the other thread (assume it's his DME) that
MHD now has a DME check facility to tell you if you need a bench unlock, but I'm not sure if it differentiates a bench unlockable DME to an encrypted (can't bench unlock) DME.

You may have to try to find out for sure.

[kimbow]

Originally Posted by Enabled

Let me know what happens either way. I presume the attempted read may cause issues with the original DME. I avoided tampering with anything in the original DME and extracted what I needed from the FEM.

Decided I didn't have enough good information to do this so abandoned the idea. Too many unknowns and didn't want the risk. However I have been communicating with G Power who can do this, it involves a pre encrypted DME being fitted and programmed to the car and then the software is loaded for whatever package you choose (up to 670 PS) To supply the non encrypted DME, programme it to the car and load the performance software is around 4000 euros, thats without any other add ons (bigger intercooler etc etc.) It can only be done with the car physically in Germany and they would need it for a week, tricky as I am in UK!! So.....what next!