[samsamdar]

I need some advice! What are some good, quiet street pads to run on the M2C's grey brakes (upgraded 2NH system)?

[chris719]

OEM ? There isn't a great selection for 2NH that I've seen. Certainly, if quiet is your criteria then you usually have a hard time doing better than OEM. Most aftermarket pads have lower dust but less initial bite.

[tropicatango]

Oem are very good, on a fast back road, they bite and brake the car really hard, i never had the feeling that it could be better for the street

on a 2018 golf r, i really find the limits of the oem brakes on the same roads, pedal became spongy, and brake were losing performance.

If you really want to spend money, i would go with ferrodo ds 2500 but for street and spirited driving only, it doesn't worth it to me

[kart driver]

OEM pads are great

[Vulpe]

I've been running the Hawk Performance Ceramic pads (Front - HB828Z.760 Rear - HB193Z.670) since February, about 2500 miles. They're ok.

Huge reduction in brake dust.
Less bite.
Even less bite when cold (First 2-3 stops after leaving in the morning)
No more squealing during normal use. They started squealing a bit the last couple months backing out of the driveway.

I don't think its worth the cost unless you REALLY want less dust. I'll keep running these until they run down and I'll very likely go back to stock pads afterward.

[j23]

The stock brakes on my 2021 M2C are f***ing phenomenal.

This coming from someone who played with many pads, rotors, and BBK's over the years while tracking and autocrossing his e46 and e36 M3's.

The stock compound is extremely underrated. You really won't find anything better for the street. I can promise you that. Cold bite is out of this world good. So is overall stopping power. Brake dust so many complain about is just a byproduct of the goodness. In other words, you actually want the dust.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by j23

The stock brakes on my 2021 M2C are f***ing phenomenal.

This coming from someone who played with many pads, rotors, and BBK's over the years while tracking and autocrossing his e46 and e36 M3's.

The stock compound is extremely underrated. You really won't find anything better for the street. I can promise you that. Cold bite is out of this world good. So is overall stopping power. Brake dust so many complain about is just a byproduct of the goodness. In other words, you actually want the dust.

I think you've lost your way. This isn't the racing forum. The stock pads EAT rotors to get numbers, and the additional dust is literally the rotor. Absolutely terrible street pad.

[j23]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

I think you've lost your way. This isn't the racing forum. The stock pads EAT rotors to get numbers, and the additional dust is literally the rotor. Absolutely terrible street pad.

Why don't you name one street pad you tried that bites better than stock and dusts less? - You won't find one. It doesn't exist.

In fact, name all street pads you tried. I'm curious to see what your decisive expert opinion is based on.

If you think the stock pads are terrible because of how abrasive they are, then you clearly don't know much about pads in general. There's always a tradeoff. You cannot achieve amazing initial/cold bite without aggression and some rotor wear. As such, you'll have brake dust too.

Again, there is no pad in existence that dusts less than stock, but performs better on the street. Period.

I hear Ferodo DS2500 being mentioned often on this forum. Not even close to stock in terms of bite.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by j23

Why don't you name one street pad you tried that bites better than stock and dusts less? - You won't find one. It doesn't exist.

In fact, name all street pads you tried. I'm curious to see what your decisive expert opinion is based on.

If you think the stock pads are terrible because of how abrasive they are, then you clearly don't know much about pads in general. There's always a tradeoff. You cannot achieve amazing initial/cold bite without aggression and some rotor wear. As such, you'll have brake dust too.

Again, there is no pad in existence that dusts less than stock, but performs better on the street. Period.

I hear Ferodo DS2500 being mentioned often on this forum. Not even close to stock in terms of bite.

1. I'm not an expert, but I've had a lot of different brake pads on my performance cars though the years (I'm 50).

2. I no longer race, and when I see "street" pad, that's what I assume is meant.

3. There is absolutely no need for the amount of bite that the stock pads have, and you can get fantastic performance from many different pads...if you're not wanting to race on the street.

4. My favorites are the G-Loc's, followed by the Akebono's, followed by EBC Redstuff's, all of which will dust much less than stock, eat rotors much less than stock, and bite just fine in all kinds of weather. The availability of each I'm not sure of, but that doesn't make the stock pad great. The stock pad is a street/track pad.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

1. I'm not an expert, but I've had a lot of different brake pads on my performance cars though the years (I'm 50).

3. There is absolutely no need for the amount of bite that the stock pads have, and you can get fantastic performance from many different pads...if you're not wanting to race on the street.

I don't own an M2C, but I have driven one a few times, and I tend to agree that the stock brakes are extremely touchy. I do think most BMWs are better off with the OEM pad, but I could see an argument made that a little less bite is beneficial for these brakes.

I haven't had great experiences with aftermarket pads for street use overall, though.

[j23]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

1. I'm not an expert, but I've had a lot of different brake pads on my performance cars though the years (I'm 50).

2. I no longer race, and when I see "street" pad, that's what I assume is meant.

3. There is absolutely no need for the amount of bite that the stock pads have, and you can get fantastic performance from many different pads...if you're not wanting to race on the street.

4. My favorites are the G-Loc's, followed by the Akebono's, followed by EBC Redstuff's, all of which will dust much less than stock, eat rotors much less than stock, and bite just fine in all kinds of weather. The availability of each I'm not sure of, but that doesn't make the stock pad great. The stock pad is a street/track pad.

All fair points and I agree with you mostly.

What I was getting at is that there's always a compromise and everybody's definition of "best" with regards to street pads will vary. To me, the best street pad is the one with the best bite and I firmly believe that no pad on the market can match the stock bite.

Having said that, some folks are willing sacrifice the initial bite with pads that offer both less abrasion and dust. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

However, there's no shortage of people who believe that replacing the stock pads with another brand will give them some magical performance advantage on the street. That's absurd.

I can only think of 3 reasons when replacing the stock pads with aftermarket makes sense. You want:

1. less dust
2. longer pad life
3. cheaper

Lastly, the stock pad is purely a street pad. It is NOT a track pad by any stretch of the imagination. It will fade and outright melt after a few hard laps. I promise. Typically, pads with amazing cold bite perform terribly at high track temps. Think of it as a winter tire in the summer or a summer performance tire in the winter. Shit performance in either case.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by j23

However, there's no shortage of people who believe that replacing the stock pads with another brand will give them some magical performance advantage on the street. That's absurd.

I've never heard of such a thing, or such a person.

It's no secret that this car was created with dual citizenship in mind, which is why it's so at home on the street, and the track (and the M2C spec'd with 2NH is even more bent towards the track).

Having said that, there are a lot of guys (like myself) who bought it as a daily that will never see a track, and therefore have no need for the kind of braking performance the car comes with (at the expense of rotors, and the absurd increase in dust). For those people, even Duralast ceramic pads will work absolutely fine, and the car will still out-perform (even in a daily sense) most every other car on the road.

[j23]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

I've never heard of such a thing, or such a person.

It's no secret that this car was created with dual citizenship in mind, which is why it's so at home on the street, and the track (and the M2C spec'd with 2NH is even more bent towards the track).

Having said that, there are a lot of guys (like myself) who bought it as a daily that will never see a track, and therefore have no need for the kind of braking performance the car comes with (at the expense of rotors, and the absurd increase in dust). For those people, even Duralast ceramic pads will work absolutely fine, and the car will still out-perform (even in a daily sense) most every other car on the road.

lol that's odd...

They're all over this forum and others. Most people have been wanting to improve braking performance on the street for years. The narrative they bought into was that aftermarket pads will reduce stopping distance and improve bite. After spending thousands on big brake kits, slotted rotors, performance pads, stainless steel lines, and higher MOT fluid, they quickly realized that none of these "upgrades" accounted for increased braking performance on the street.

I don't buy into this "stock pads are too abrasive for the street" on the M2C mentality. It's an M2C after all. The same can be said about the engine and everything else. It's got too much power for most people to utilize effectively on the street and will wear too fast as a result. I may as well de-tune it, which will prolong its life.

Newsflash: the aggressive bite you experience from the stock brakes is the result of the pad and the pad only. The big caliper with its 6 pistons has nothing to do with bite (even if it had 12 pistons, it would only more evenly spread the load and wear on the pad). Point being that swapping in other street pads will never result in increased performance.

The stock brakes provide optimal performance on the street and no amount of tinkering with them will change that.

And no, these brakes were not made with track in mind. If you tracked your car, you would know exactly what I mean. Just because they are big and menacing-looking doesn't mean anything. These are purely street brakes.

The calipers are not designed to take prolonged abuse at the track. The pistons/seals will crack prematurely and so will the rotors; they're cross-drilled (the last type of rotor you want for track days).

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by j23

They're all over this forum and others. Most people have been wanting to improve braking performance on the street for years.

Again, I think you're confusing the street with the track. There has never been an issue with the M2 braking performance on the street. The issue has always been when the OG M2 hit the track, and it's something BMW absolutely corrected with the 2NH on the M2C.

Originally Posted by j23

The narrative they bought into was that aftermarket pads will reduce stopping distance and improve bite. After spending thousands on big brake kits, slotted rotors, performance pads, stainless steel lines, and higher MOT fluid, they quickly realized that none of these "upgrades" accounted for increased braking performance on the street.

Again, respectfully, I think you're stuck on track performance. It all makes sense, except for the part in bold red.

Originally Posted by j23

The stock brakes provide optimal performance on the street and no amount of tinkering with them will change that.

I disagree. I believe they are overkill for a pure street car, and that the guys that drive their car purely on the street would notice almost no difference at all if they were swapped with EBC Redstuff's...apart from the lack of dust. If you think they would, you might be one of those guys that thinks the street is just a track without so many officials.

Originally Posted by j23

And no, these brakes were not made with track in mind.

What I meant was, it was plain that the guys that actually used their OG M2 for the street, and the track (HPDE's, not real track rats) wanted something better for the track, and the 2NH provides that. Is it a be-all, end-all track solution? No. But it's a big improvement over the stock brakes.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

The issue has always been when the OG M2 hit the track, and it's something BMW absolutely corrected with the 2NH on the M2C.

What I meant was, it was plain that the guys that actually used their OG M2 for the street, and the track (HPDE's, not real track rats) wanted something better for the track, and the 2NH provides that. Is it a be-all, end-all track solution? No. But it's a big improvement over the stock brakes.

I actually don't think so. There is no real evidence that 2NH is at all better. Even though there is more mass, even the CCBs on the M2CS have been said to fade because there is insufficient airflow. Adding some thermal mass will only change the time constant and delay the inevitable slightly.

The stock pad for 2NH still cannot handle even light track work, just like the same pad on the F10 M5, because it is a street-only pad. They are a generic TMD Group street car formulation just like every other BMW pad.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by chris719

I actually don't think so. There is no real evidence that 2NH is at all better. The stock pad for 2NH still cannot handle even light track work...

I don't think any company puts real track pads on any street car. Even my Exige came with street pads. My position is; swapping the pads in a 2NH car yields much better results vs the OG M2 guys for HPDE's.

[j23]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

Again, I think you're confusing the street with the track. There has never been an issue with the M2 braking performance on the street. The issue has always been when the OG M2 hit the track, and it's something BMW absolutely corrected with the 2NH on the M2C.

Again, respectfully, I think you're stuck on track performance. It all makes sense, except for the part in bold red.

I disagree. I believe they are overkill for a pure street car, and that the guys that drive their car purely on the street would notice almost no difference at all if they were swapped with EBC Redstuff's...apart from the lack of dust. If you think they would, you might be one of those guys that thinks the street is just a track without so many officials.

What I meant was, it was plain that the guys that actually used their OG M2 for the street, and the track (HPDE's, not real track rats) wanted something better for the track, and the 2NH provides that. Is it a be-all, end-all track solution? No. But it's a big improvement over the stock brakes.

Stop talking about track. Nobody is talking about track, but you. This thread is about street pads, but you keep making track comparisons.

BMW didn't correct anything from the OG M2 in terms of braking performance. You have demonstrated absolutely zero comprehension of braking systems and what makes them function they way they do. Bigger brakes don't translate into better performance on the street.

Pad compound has more to do with braking performance on the street than the caliper or rotors. The only reason why you think these brakes are overkill is because of how intimidating they look. Rookie line of thinking.

On the street, the stock brakes ARE optimal. And no, you will NOT achieve the same bite from other pads ON THE STREET. Again, pad material dictates the bite, not how powerful or big the brakes are. Also, you're confusing brake bite with stopping power.

I sense you have little to no experience with brakes on M cars. They are nutritious for being great on the street and poor at the track, unless you swap in actual race pads and upgrade the fluid at minimum. M2C is no different.

Despite how large and seemingly overkill you think these brakes are, at the track they fall short. It is what it is. On the street, changing the stock pads will always result in compromising initial bite and feel. Guaranteed. There's no way around this. You're arguing with physics and chemistry.

Great cold bite = dust. You will never match this bite with a more dustless pad. End of story.

[j23]

Originally Posted by chris719

I actually don't think so. There is no real evidence that 2NH is at all better. Even though there is more mass, even the CCBs on the M2CS have been said to fade because there is insufficient airflow. Adding some thermal mass will only change the time constant and delay the inevitable slightly.

The stock pad for 2NH still cannot handle even light track work, just like the same pad on the F10 M5, because it is a street-only pad. They are a generic TMD Group street car formulation just like every other BMW pad.

You're right. It's not better. The dude doesn't know what he's talking about.

He equates bigger brakes with better, which is what most dudes with zero track experience do.

If he feels that M2C's initial bite is better than the OG M2, then it's likely that BMW changed the pad compound. Nothing short of that would significantly impact the way these brakes grab.

Most people have a hard time believing that the "upgraded" (read: bigger) M2C brakes are mostly for show. They do not increase braking performance on the street vs the OG brakes. And if they do, it's probably by 1-5%, which is something you'd never notice.

Pad compound does most of the talking relative to performance and bite.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by j23

Stop talking about track. Nobody is talking about track, but you. This thread is about street pads, but you keep making track comparisons.

You're the one that keeps talking about street performance as if it's some big deal...and it's not. Or have you forgotten what's driving next to you all day long? You're track minded, it's obvious, and I maintain that Autozone Duralast ceramic pads will perform just as well on the street as the stock OEM pads...with much less cost, dust, and rotor degradation.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by j23

You're right. It's not better. The dude doesn't know what he's talking about.

He equates bigger brakes with better, which is what most dudes with zero track experience do.

If he feels that M2C's initial bite is better than the OG M2, then it's likely that BMW changed the pad compound. Nothing short of that would significantly impact the way these brakes grab.

Most people have a hard time believing that the "upgraded" (read: bigger) M2C brakes are mostly for show. They do not increase braking performance on the street vs the OG brakes. And if they do, it's probably by 1-5%, which is something you'd never notice.

Pad compound does most of the talking relative to performance and bite.

To be fair, I think he understands they are not any better on the street. I think there is debate whether or not they are better on the track even with a pad swap.

Having driven both the M2 and M2C, I can confirm the M2C has higher initial bite. It could be increased brake boost, but I doubt it considering most of the components are the same. Probably the pad as you say.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

You're the one that keeps talking about street performance as if it's some big deal...and it's not. Or have you forgotten what's driving next to you all day long? You're track minded, it's obvious, and I maintain that Autozone Duralast ceramic pads will perform just as well on the street as the stock OEM pads...with much less cost, dust, and rotor degradation.

In principle you are right. However, in my experience, many aftermarket pads (especially ceramic) don't have good enough initial bite and I have experienced some interesting delayed-braking effects, especially on my Mazda, when the rotors are wet and cold with Hawk pads.

They will ultimately work with enough pedal force, obviously, but there are reasons that OEMs use pads like these, it's not purely a cost motivation.

[j23]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

You're the one that keeps talking about street performance as if it's some big deal...and it's not. Or have you forgotten what's driving next to you all day long? You're track minded, it's obvious, and I maintain that Autozone Duralast ceramic pads will perform just as well on the street as the stock OEM pads...with much less cost, dust, and rotor degradation.

And that is false on all accounts.

Plus, this thread *is* about street pad performance. So clearly it must be a big deal. Stock bite will not be replicated even remotely with the setup you just mentioned. Ridiculous talk.