[3t3p]

Will I scrape 400bhp with stage one?

Someone knowledgeble on the forums said stage one with FBO allows the engine to fully recover no matter what useage pattern track etc and that stage two even with bolt ons doesn't and pushes things that much farther?

Forget his name

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

Will I scrape 400bhp with stage one?

Someone knowledgeble on the forums said stage one with FBO allows the engine to fully recover no matter what useage pattern track etc and that stage two even with bolt ons doesn't and pushes things that much farther?

Forget his name

Someone local to me reckons he got 408bhp wtih FBO and the stock tune, so I expect that you will. (I don't know him well, so can't personally confirm that this is the case, but that is what he said.)

There is 0.5psi difference between BM3 Stage 1 (16psi) and Stage 2 (16.5psi) tunes, so I don't think that it will make a huge difference IMO. What will make more of a difference is 95 vs 98 maps; the 98 map will have more aggressive timing and then lose power more quickly once IATs start to climb on the track.

You could stick with the stock tune if doing lots of track (12.6psi). The main issues with the stock tune and FBO though are 1) cold start is horrendously loud, 2) Pops/burbles are pretty loud also - depends on how close you are to your neighbours as to whether these are an issue.

With either tune option (MHD and BM3) you can turn these off/down to suit.

[3t3p]

My cold start is really too loud yeh, in fact was thinking of getting BM3 just to code this off.

But then I've paid for a tune and not used it...

I'm not tracking the car but want reliability/not a blown N55!

I was thinking I could always go stage two down the line.

Car is getting dynod tomorrow with before and after mods just to see and get baselines if I go stage 1 later.

Just wanna break the 400hp barrier tbh.

No harm to run lower octane maps but use better fuel?

[pal]

Really liking the BM3 91/95 curve past 6000 rpm. The flat power with no drop to, what looks like 6700ish rpm, it awesome. I bet it will feel great on a road course where you live over 3500-4000 rpm for the most part.

This also makes me think about why there is a drop in the other two curves. If all the tunes ask for a high boost target, but power is dropping off on 2 of the 3 tunes then there must be a reason. Since the hardware on your car is the same, conditions the same, makes me wonder if there is timing pull up top on these 2 tunes?

[squixs]

Originally Posted by pal

Really liking the BM3 91/95 curve past 6000 rpm. The flat power with no drop to, what looks like 6700ish rpm, it awesome. I bet it will feel great on a road course where you live over 3500-4000 rpm for the most part.

This also makes me think about why there is a drop in the other two curves. If all the tunes ask for a high boost target, but power is dropping off on 2 of the 3 tunes then there must be a reason. Since the hardware on your car is the same, conditions the same, makes me wonder if there is timing pull up top on these 2 tunes?

Like OP was saying: probably timing pull because of not enough octane to support the 93 map

[3t3p]

Had some thoughts about the top end having done my FBO Inc MsT turbo inlet (V2) see my thread that demonstrates significant maintenance of power at the top of the power band on stock map.

If MHD uses higher turbo pressure and therefore flow, it stands to reason that the stock restrictive turbo inlet might make more issue for the MHD map than the BM3?

Just a hypothesis but in an ideal world we'd repeat the MHD run with a larger turbo inlet installed, unless I missed a trick and WT has one already?!

@WT, I'm inferring rightly or wrongly that MHD 91/95 is not needed in UK? Is that because less timing is used by MHD and therefore there are less or no knock events?

Edit Momir recommends to start with 93/98 and log.

[AmuroRay]

I don’t think those mods will show much of anything with MHDs off the shelf tunes. MHD is load based tuning, so it won’t likely increase power after hitting its target.

It’s great for custom tuning though, and those mods will definitely allow more power with a custom tune.

The only bad part about MHD tunes is they are all crap on top end. After 6000RPM the tunes just fall on their face.

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

Had some thoughts about the top end having done my FBO Inc MsT turbo inlet (V2) see my thread that demonstrates significant maintenance of power at the top of the power band on stock map.

If MHD uses higher turbo pressure and therefore flow, it stands to reason that the stock restrictive turbo inlet might make more issue for the MHD map than the BM3?

Just a hypothesis but in an ideal world we'd repeat the MHD run with a larger turbo inlet installed, unless I missed a trick and WT has one already?!

I don't. I would like to, but I've been too busy over the last 12 months sorting an extension to the house, so I didn't have spare time for such a long job on the car, plus for a good chunk of that I didn't have a garage as my wife filled it with new kitchen parts!!! (she was popular! ).

Originally Posted by 3t3p

@WT, I'm inferring rightly or wrongly that MHD 91/95 is not needed in UK? Is that because less timing is used by MHD and therefore there are less or no knock events?

Edit Momir recommends to start with 93/98 and log.

Absolutely agree with him. I don't have spare money to throw at testing every variation of the tunes, but certainly the MHD Stg2+ 98 map worked well on my car and gave no indication (in the logs) that the 91 map would be better.

[3t3p]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I don’t think those mods will show much of anything with MHDs off the shelf tunes. MHD is load based tuning, so it won’t likely increase power after hitting its target.

It’s great for custom tuning though, and those mods will definitely allow more power with a custom tune.

The only bad part about MHD tunes is they are all crap on top end. After 6000RPM the tunes just fall on their face.

About 20hp less at the top from WTs dyno plots?

How much will a custom tune run me?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

About 20hp less at the top from WTs dyno plots?

How much will a custom tune run me?

Prices vary, but I’d recommend a hpfp. You’ll max the stock on out on a custom tune, even on pump gas.

[3t3p]

This is all getting more serious and expensive than I'd like.

All I want to do is code off cold start and have stage 1 equivalent if I'm paying for a license. IMO the car is fast enough for what it is if, you actually drive it on a narrow public road and rev it out through the gears

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

This is all getting more serious and expensive than I'd like.

All I want to do is code off cold start and have stage 1 equivalent of I'm paying for a license. IMO the car is fast enough for what it is if, you actually drive it on a narrow public road and rev it out through the gears

This is what most people do, and there is nothing wrong with it.

[3t3p]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

This is what most people do, and there is nothing wrong with it.

That's fine I'm not most people though I'm me?

£1000+ plus install for a HPFP, it's not what I want I'm not going to do it so just drop it.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

That's fine I'm not most people though I'm me?

£1000+ plus install for a HPFP, it's not what I want I'm not going to do it so just drop it.

??? I agree with you.

[cecaa850]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

??? I agree with you.

I think he read it wrong. I did at first too.

[3t3p]

I read it wrong my bad.

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

This is all getting more serious and expensive than I'd like.

All I want to do is code off cold start and have stage 1 equivalent of I'm paying for a license. IMO the car is fast enough for what it is if, you actually drive it on a narrow public road and rev it out through the gears

Don't fret - It's quite unlikely that you'd need a new hpfp with even stage 2 tunes and you certainly shouldn't expect to need one with a stage 1 tune.

It's just a case of logging and checking that the rail pressure doesn't drop too much - I think it can drop to something between 1500-1800 psi (can't quite recall the exact figure) before there will be issues - given the bm3 target is something like 2450, then that is a big buffer before an hpfp upgrade would be needed.

[3t3p]

So what is a rough safety margin for fuel rail pressure request from a stock HPFP?
Wary that BM3 is harsher on it than MHD.

I was going to buy MHD today but it's raining too much to hook up batt charger.

One thing that BM3 has is throttle mapping adjustment I believe?

I'd rather not sit with a laptop each time I make changes though, has BM3 moved on on that front?

[3t3p]

I've long since gone MHD stage 2+ hehe.

Out here (NZ) the fuel just clears 98 RON. Currently the car is fast, too much emphasis on down low though, more than I remember in UK with 99RON. Car is slightly less 'on it' also.

Regardless of butt Dyno the car sometimes seems too smooth or slower than stock when it certainly is not slower!

Got me thinking why there is no talk of using the 95RON map with MHD like people have discovered with BM3?

Could it be better? Maybe my current map is pulling a lot of timing (I should log I know but don't know how to read them).

I will actually try stage 2+ a/b via on the fly map switching 95octane Vs 98octane as I gather it does no harm to over-octane but the opposite can be harmful.

[dazwhite]

Originally Posted by detroitm2

Thats a pretty generous dyno. What does a stock M2 run on it?

360ish

[Sundinisagod]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

I've long since gone MHD stage 2+ hehe.

Out here (NZ) the fuel just clears 98 RON. Currently the car is fast, too much emphasis on down low though, more than I remember in UK with 99RON. Car is slightly less 'on it' also.

Regardless of butt Dyno the car sometimes seems too smooth or slower than stock when it certainly is not slower!

Got me thinking why there is no talk of using the 95RON map with MHD like people have discovered with BM3?

Could it be better? Maybe my current map is pulling a lot of timing (I should log I know but don't know how to read them).

I will actually try stage 2+ a/b via on the fly map switching 95octane Vs 98octane as I gather it does no harm to over-octane but the opposite can be harmful.

I’m running mhd stage 2+ 91 octane which I think is equivalent to your 95 ron. I went this route because I wanted to play it safe, since I don’t know how to data log. Planning to switch to the 93oct/98ron map in the spring, and yes, I’ll need to figure out the whole data logging thing by then. Perfectly happy with the power I’m making, but wouldn’t complain about a few more ponies either. Still need a diverter valve and turbo inlet upgrades, hoping there is 10-20 hp left to be had with the additional bolt ons and 93 map.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Sundinisagod

I’m running mhd stage 2+ 91 octane which I think is equivalent to your 95 ron. I went this route because I wanted to play it safe, since I don’t know how to data log. Planning to switch to the 93oct/98ron map in the spring, and yes, I’ll need to figure out the whole data logging thing by then. Perfectly happy with the power I’m making, but wouldn’t complain about a few more ponies either. Still need a diverter valve and turbo inlet upgrades, hoping there is 10-20 hp left to be had with the additional bolt ons and 93 map.

Unlike BM3, MHD is load based so you don't really gain additional power once targets are met.