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      08-22-2020, 10:52 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by AndrewC1989 View Post
I haven't, it's just a leisurely weekender with 10k miles on the clock.
I see, so alot less stress has been put onto the diff in its life time so I would reckon not too much damage has been done. It is best to probably switch the fluid asap.
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      08-23-2020, 03:44 AM   #90
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Mine appears to make a whining noise audible between 35 and 50mph (the tyre noise drowns it out above this). 15k road miles since the running in service.
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      08-23-2020, 12:23 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by M Fifty View Post
Mine appears to make a whining noise audible between 35 and 50mph (the tyre noise drowns it out above this). 15k road miles since the running in service.
How loud is it? Is it a whining noise that speeds up and skies down with rpm?

Also weird it happens at specific speeds it makes me think it's transmission. Does it happen in every gear or only specific gears?
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      08-23-2020, 12:56 PM   #92
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Nope - road speed, independent of the gear used and engine speed. Varies a little if I keep the speed constant while driving on a twisty road.
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      08-23-2020, 01:03 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by M Fifty View Post
Nope - road speed, independent of the gear used and engine speed. Varies a little if I keep the speed constant while driving on a twisty road.
Hmm weird, it is hard to tell without being there in person. Try a diff fluid flush and see if it it fixes it.
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      08-23-2020, 05:03 PM   #94
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As it's - just about - still in warranty, I'm going to be discussing this topic at length with both BMW and my dealership this week...
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      08-23-2020, 05:08 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by M Fifty View Post
As it's - just about - still in warranty, I'm going to be discussing this topic at length with both BMW and my dealership this week...
I see, hopefully you get it all sorted out.
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      08-24-2020, 03:18 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Yes SAF-XJ is indeed designed for use in the ///M limited slip diff as it was the original fluid at the time of launch for the f87 platform, the only thing is bmw updated it to msp/a after diff issues and the large recall occured in 2016. This is why I personally would prefer msp/a just as a precautionary measure incase there is a vital reason bmw made the switch in fluid. But since alot of dealers are still using saf-xj without seeing a huge reported case in diff failures it should be ok, and my previous fears of anything but msp/a being used should be a little bit lessened after continuously following diff fluid flush reports (with saf-xj) for the last little bit and not seeing failures.


It is also insanely concerning that so many dealers are messing up simple diff fluid flushes with fluid that is not even remotely close for use. I can sort of understand why dealers used to mess up by using SAF-XJ + FM because this fluid was used on the E9x m3's limited slip diff and is very close to the saf-xj required for the F series M diff. But SAF-XO is used just on regular bmws and shouldn't ever be used on an lsd. So unless the tech is absolutely idiotic and incompetent and did not run through the ista protocols for diff flushes and went with what was in his mind (in this case what they normally did for normal bmws) there should be absolutely no reason for this mess up. This is what really infuriates me about dealers and the idiots they let work as techs, especially since you are the second case in which the wrong diff oil was used. So I really should give my own dealer some credit, I never really trusted any dealer even my own but after looking at all the work they have done on my car and other cars (a local m2 had a serpentine belt break and get sucked into the engine through the front crank seal and this dealer repaired it) without any issues and everything done to ista protocol (including torque specs which is rare to see as techs normally go hand tight and never use torque wrenches) I really do appreciate and trust my dealer now.



Also if you plan on keeping the car long term you need to some how get the dealer to warranty the diff long term.

Could you also keep me posted on the servicing they do (oil change etc) for the final service? I am interested as well since my final service is coming up.
Thanks for the well researched posts as always

What oil do you recommend then, the OEM BMW MSP/A (part no 83222365988)

Or is there an aftermarket alternative?

BTW the 922 oil part number is not recognised by real OEM or BMW parts retailers here in the EU...
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      08-24-2020, 10:21 AM   #97
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Castrol have suggested I get the oil that's in there analysed to see what wear metals are present.
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      08-24-2020, 12:44 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
Thanks for the well researched posts as always

What oil do you recommend then, the OEM BMW MSP/A (part no 83222365988)

Or is there an aftermarket alternative?

BTW the 922 oil part number is not recognised by real OEM or BMW parts retailers here in the EU...
I honestly don't know if this would be considered well researched, I tried to dig up as much info as possible but as per usual bmw is really cryptic about why they make changes. So just as a precaution since I've seen so many diffs have issues and alot of issues were also oil related even when saf-xj + FM was used (which is also for lsd's, and the only real difference being extra friction modifiers), so I wanted to stick with what bmw recommend since aftermarket oils could have more or less friction modifiers vs stock (Castrol was unable to confirm for me if their oil was bmw approved which sketched me out alot) which may or may not cause issues.

Yes I recommend the OEM msp/a, keep it safe imo these diffs are way too expensive to play it risky. Just do frequent flushes if you track alot and you should be fine. I also don't believe you would get any gains with an aftermarket oil like you would with engine oil because you won't really increase weight so you shouldn't get any more shear stability at higher temps. Sure the base stock of oil might be more durable but I doubt the shear stability would increase too too much as a result especially if it has to meet bmw's requirements, because that could mess with how the clutch packs engage hence why all the oils are 75w-140.


If you cannot get msp/a get saf-xj, then if you cannot get that go after market with syntrax first then all the other options last.



Yeah I always said it was supposed to be msp/a 83222365988, and not saf-xj. Which is weird why the usa is pretty much all using SAF-XJ. This is even weirder because the US normally gets things Canada doesn't because their market demand is larger. I'm not really complaining so thanks bmw for not giving Canada the short end of the stick like most companies would lol.

But overall what I've noticed was Canadian cars, EU cars, not sure about Aussie cars all get MSP/A. The US gets SAF-XJ, I am not sure about mexico or south america because not many people post service reports.
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      08-24-2020, 12:50 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Fifty View Post
Castrol have suggested I get the oil that's in there analysed to see what wear metals are present.
Good idea but it might be hard to get a good idea of wear compared to other bmw specific averages because I do not think alot of bmw owners oil test their diffs. There will probably be alot of metals as well from clutch pack wear. But regardless it should be a good idea.
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      08-24-2020, 02:46 PM   #100
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Clutch pack wear and what any debris has done to the rest of it are the main concerns...
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      08-25-2020, 10:53 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
I see, so alot less stress has been put onto the diff in its life time so I would reckon not too much damage has been done. It is best to probably switch the fluid asap.
Called the dealer to explain the situation and they said at the time a different fluid was recommended, lol 🙄. I didn't want to get into it over the phone so maybe in person I'll explain as politely as possible that it was the completely wrong oil used all together and that it's kind of a big deal.

They're gonna replace it for free w the correct fluid and I feel like that's pretty much all I can reasonably ask for seeing as how there's been no issues and it's been 3 years. If there's problems down the road I'll always have the original work order to point to, so that's something I guess.
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      08-25-2020, 11:19 AM   #102
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My ordeal has bothered me so much that I ordered 2 more bottles of the rear end fluid to change it again myself before my road trip next month. I plan on having the other fluid analyzed.

At some point I'll get over it, just not yet.
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      08-25-2020, 12:37 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewC1989 View Post
Called the dealer to explain the situation and they said at the time a different fluid was recommended, lol 🙄. I didn't want to get into it over the phone so maybe in person I'll explain as politely as possible that it was the completely wrong oil used all together and that it's kind of a big deal.

They're gonna replace it for free w the correct fluid and I feel like that's pretty much all I can reasonably ask for seeing as how there's been no issues and it's been 3 years. If there's problems down the road I'll always have the original work order to point to, so that's something I guess.
Well technically they can't make the excuse that SAF-XO was the correct oil back then and here is your best argument, you have a 2017 m2. This means it was post the differential failure stop delivery and recall stage, which means EVERY dealer should have gotten the tsb from bmw outline what oils to use and that is msp/a, they also explained not to use saf-xj + fm and might have talked about saf-xj and it's continued use I can't remember. But I believe I linked that above somewhere.


Your next argument is that SAF-XO is not even meant for lsd's and only for open diffs, and that is printed on the bottle and has been for awhile. There was a tsb on that too extended back to vehicles from 2011, but the date of publication is unknown. So imo unless your dealership doesn't brief every tech on tsb's and the tech doesn't follow ista protocol then this should not have occured.



Yeah hopefully they replace your oil, also try to get them to flush it like described with JustinHEMI's m2.
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      08-25-2020, 12:39 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
My ordeal has bothered me so much that I ordered 2 more bottles of the rear end fluid to change it again myself before my road trip next month. I plan on having the other fluid analyzed.

At some point I'll get over it, just not yet.
Yeah better to be on the safe side. Make sure you also buy a new fill and drain bolt because they are single use. Also the bolts are H14 not for bolts, so don't use a torx socket or you might strip the bolt.
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      08-31-2020, 08:52 AM   #105
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Sorry if this was already posted and I missed it— I found a copy of a differential technical service document from 2016, which includes "F87 (M2 Coupe): SERVICE ACTION: REPLACE REAR-AXLE DIFFERENTIAL. It lists part # 83 22 2 357 992 for the final-drive gear oil and is described as "Final-Drive Gear Oil MSP/A (1000ml)".

There may be newer revisions of this document on bmwtis.com, so unless someone already has access, I might pay the $30 to see what I can dig up.

Edit: This document refers to part # 83 22 2 357 992 as "MSP/A", while all of our running in service records refer the same part # as "SAF-XJ".



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      08-31-2020, 10:05 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKr View Post
Sorry if this was already posted and I missed it— I found a copy of a differential technical service document from 2016, which includes "F87 (M2 Coupe): SERVICE ACTION: REPLACE REAR-AXLE DIFFERENTIAL. It lists part # 83 22 2 357 992 for the final-drive gear oil and is described as "Final-Drive Gear Oil MSP/A (1000ml)".

There may be newer revisions of this document on bmwtis.com, so unless someone already has access, I might pay the $30 to see what I can dig up.





.
You really don't need to pay the fee because you'll be wasting your money, as it's well known bmw changed the required fluid to MSP/A, as shown on real OEM and new tis, and the tsb I and now you have posted.


There is also a tsb website that someone posted above that lets you download full PDFs, check that out before paying for anything.
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      08-31-2020, 10:20 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
You really don't need to pay the fee because you'll be wasting your money, as it's well known bmw changed the required fluid to MSP/A, as shown on real OEM and new tis, and the tsb I and now you have posted.


There is also a tsb website that someone posted above that lets you download full PDFs, check that out before paying for anything.
Good to know!

I should have clarified in my post— the document I posted refers to part # 83 22 2 357 992 as "MSP/A", while all of our running in service records refer to the same part # as "SAF-XJ". This seemed to be one point of confusion in the thread.
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      08-31-2020, 11:08 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by CKr View Post
Good to know!

I should have clarified in my post— the document I posted refers to part # 83 22 2 357 992 as "MSP/A", while all of our running in service records refer to the same part # as "SAF-XJ". This seemed to be one point of confusion in the thread.
It's a part number error on earlier tsb's, they've changed it since. Real OEM and the new bottles of MSP/A show the different part number for MSP/A, and saf-xj remains as 992.


New fluids (not updated fluids) would have new part numbers so 992 cannot be SAF-XJ.
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      09-02-2020, 03:28 PM   #109
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Same thing happened to my F80 back in 2015 when they filled SAF-XJ+FM during the break-in service.

I would have never found the mistake had they not also broken multiple iDrive functionalities during the same service, prompting me to do a full verification run of everything they touched, including spending a week to learn how to re-flash the ECU myself.

My solution was simple: I have never again let any dealer touch any of my cars since that day. These days I rent a stall/lift in a DIY shop every 6 months and take care of my cars myself.

I was wondering if I could potentially let them touch it for the 1200 mile service on my M2C, hence perusing this sub-forum. I got my answer, loudly and clearly.
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      09-02-2020, 03:40 PM   #110
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Same thing happened to my F80 back in 2015 when they filled SAF-XJ+FM during the break-in service.

I would have never found the mistake had they not also broken multiple iDrive functionalities during the same service, prompting me to do a full verification run of everything they touched, including spending a week to learn how to re-flash the ECU myself.

My solution was simple: I have never again let any dealer touch any of my cars since that day. These days I rent a stall/lift in a DIY shop every 6 months and take care of my cars myself.

I was wondering if I could potentially let them touch it for the 1200 mile service on my M2C, hence perusing this sub-forum. I got my answer, loudly and clearly.
Just check part numbers on the service invoice afterwards, or go to a good dealer. I've personally never had any bad experiences with my dealer and I really hate dealerships.

Also if you don't let them do the run in service you have to make sure you deactivate the run in feature yourself. Also you're gonna have a difficult time getting warranty in the future.
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