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      07-11-2020, 01:06 AM   #67
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Some extra info:
1) This shows some discussion of the difference between MSP/A and SAF-XJ. It is still inconclusive why BMW switched fluids. I personally will be sticking to MSP/A since I am afraid of how finnicky these diffs are, which is why I am not going with an aftermarket diff oil like I normally do. SAF-XJ from bmw should be an ok alternative same as castrol syntrax if you want alternatives.
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=202

2) This was quoted on the m4 forum about BMW addressing the wrong fluid fill
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1516283

M2, M3, M4 – INCORRECT FLUID USED TO REFILL THE REAR DIFFERENTIAL

MODEL
F80 (M3) F82, F83 (M4) F87 (M2)

situation
BMW quality monitoring of the MSport differentials being replaced under warranty discovered a significant number of these differentials failed because the incorrect fluid used during the 1,200 miles Maintenance Service.

In many cases, technicians replaced the fluid with wrong oil, SAF-XJ+FM Boosted oil (P/N 83 22 2 282 583), which is designed specifically ONLY to be used in the previous generation M3 (E90/E92/93) vehicles.

Consequently, reduced performance, premature wear and excessive noise complaints were experienced.

INFORMATION
For the M2 (F87), M3 (F80) and M4 (F82, F83) vehicles, ONLY use:

Synthetic MPS/A BMW Final Drive Gear Oil (PN 83 22 2 357 992, 1 liter) during a 1,200 ml. Maintenance Service or after a differential replacement.

warranty information
Warranty claims for 1,200 mile Maintenance Services and/or subsequent replacements of the MSport rear axle differential where the incorrect differential oil was use for refilling during the repair will be rejected and/or debited back to your center.
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      07-11-2020, 01:25 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpmoney View Post
just checked my receipt, my 1200mi breakin was filled with SAF XJ

83222357992
Very interesting indeed, it looks like MSP/A is not very common in the USA. Which is weird since it is the required fluid for Canadian and USA spec cars following the diff issues. I will try to find the TSB and link it here.


Also when was this service done? I know in early 2016 there was still a possibility of using SAF-XJ because it was at the beginning of the transition period.

Let me set this straight, SAF-XJ is not terrible though as it was used prior to the fluid switch without real issue so don't get me wrong as me saying it is the end of the world if you get SAF-XJ, it just isn't what is spec'ed by bmw as of now. What is the end of the world is if your dealer messes up and gives you SAF-XJ + FM (I have seen this happen alot) or even more rare SAF-XO (not even meant for the M LSD and not even the correct weight).
my 1200 breakin was in may 2020.
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      07-11-2020, 02:27 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpmoney View Post
my 1200 breakin was in may 2020.
Interesting.
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      07-11-2020, 10:37 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpmoney View Post
my 1200 breakin was in may 2020.
Interesting.
I think all the US BMWs are using this. Just checked my neighbors 2020 M4s vin, realoem shows different part number than what was used on his 1200 miles service 2 weeks ago. His is a lease and he don't care lol.
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      07-11-2020, 02:40 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m20e3087 View Post
I think all the US BMWs are using this. Just checked my neighbors 2020 M4s vin, realoem shows different part number than what was used on his 1200 miles service 2 weeks ago. His is a lease and he don't care lol.
Yeah I've been looking at more service reports including f80's and a good proportion closing in on over 90% of USA cars are getting SAF-XJ. Only an extremely small proportion are able to get MSP/A. This is extremely weird since MSP/A is the recommended fluid for these cars. But SAF-XJ shouldn't be too bad as it was the previously used fluid and didn't have any issues, but it might not have any improvements (if there is any) of running MSP/A as recommended by bmw for a reason that is still unknown but suspected to be for improving diff life.


But lol, if it's a lease SAF-XO is ok too lol.
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      07-11-2020, 06:10 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpmoney View Post
just checked my receipt, my 1200mi breakin was filled with SAF XJ

83222357992
Same with me.
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      07-11-2020, 06:22 PM   #73
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I tried polling US people on Facebook but only one replied. SAF XJ.
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      07-11-2020, 06:25 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
I tried polling US people on Facebook but only one replied. SAF XJ.
It's really hard to find this info because not many people post their service data sheets.

But it is becoming more apparent that SAF-XJ is widely used in USA dealerships over MSP/A, and MSP/A is not even available for purchase.

For European and Canadians MSP/A is more widely available.
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      07-23-2020, 04:10 PM   #75
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I've been talking to BMW NA since this event and today they just finally told me there was nothing they are going to do for me since it was a dealer error.
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      07-23-2020, 04:33 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
I've been talking to BMW NA since this event and today they just finally told me there was nothing they are going to do for me since it was a dealer error.
That sucks, but pretty typical for bmw to pass the blame.


You gotta fight with your dealer then, tell them you want extended warranty because that debacle could cause the rear diff to fail prematurely. I doubt they will do it, but worth a shot.


Just remember for future events don't leave the lot till you carefully read through the service report and check all p/n. Then look under the hood before and after engine start up to ensure no leaks. If you are crazy like me then follow up with an obd2 scan with ISTA and have all the parking lot attendants look at you funny lol.
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      07-24-2020, 07:07 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
I've been talking to BMW NA since this event and today they just finally told me there was nothing they are going to do for me since it was a dealer error.
Just finished reading this thread. This is beyond frustrating. Such incompetence on the part of your dealer. Hopefully no damage was done to your diff, and if it does fail, the dealer will do the right thing and cover the cost of replacement. If they give you a hard time, social media pressure can do wonders in your favor.
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      08-06-2020, 09:03 AM   #78
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Adding another data-point since I had the running in check done yesterday on my 2020 M2 Comp @ about 1,100 miles.

Final drive oil used by my dealer: 83-22-2-357-992 SAF-XJ : 832514
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      08-06-2020, 04:50 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKr View Post
Adding another data-point since I had the running in check done yesterday on my 2020 M2 Comp @ about 1,100 miles.

Final drive oil used by my dealer: 83-22-2-357-992 SAF-XJ : 832514
very interesting, thanks for you data point! It is strange that the US dealers do not have access to MSP/A.
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      08-22-2020, 10:55 AM   #80
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SAF-XJ is at least the correct viscosity (75W-140), and designed for use in limited slip differentials.

My Warranty Invoice from the Running In Service shows they used SAF-XO which is 75W-90 and not designed for use in limited slip differentials.

End of warranty check on Wednesday is going to be interesting...
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      08-22-2020, 12:42 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Fifty View Post
SAF-XJ is at least the correct viscosity (75W-140), and designed for use in limited slip differentials.

My Warranty Invoice from the Running In Service shows they used SAF-XO which is 75W-90 and not designed for use in limited slip differentials.

End of warranty check on Wednesday is going to be interesting...
Yes SAF-XJ is indeed designed for use in the ///M limited slip diff as it was the original fluid at the time of launch for the f87 platform, the only thing is bmw updated it to msp/a after diff issues and the large recall occured in 2016. This is why I personally would prefer msp/a just as a precautionary measure incase there is a vital reason bmw made the switch in fluid. But since alot of dealers are still using saf-xj without seeing a huge reported case in diff failures it should be ok, and my previous fears of anything but msp/a being used should be a little bit lessened after continuously following diff fluid flush reports (with saf-xj) for the last little bit and not seeing failures.


It is also insanely concerning that so many dealers are messing up simple diff fluid flushes with fluid that is not even remotely close for use. I can sort of understand why dealers used to mess up by using SAF-XJ + FM because this fluid was used on the E9x m3's limited slip diff and is very close to the saf-xj required for the F series M diff. But SAF-XO is used just on regular bmws and shouldn't ever be used on an lsd. So unless the tech is absolutely idiotic and incompetent and did not run through the ista protocols for diff flushes and went with what was in his mind (in this case what they normally did for normal bmws) there should be absolutely no reason for this mess up. This is what really infuriates me about dealers and the idiots they let work as techs, especially since you are the second case in which the wrong diff oil was used. So I really should give my own dealer some credit, I never really trusted any dealer even my own but after looking at all the work they have done on my car and other cars (a local m2 had a serpentine belt break and get sucked into the engine through the front crank seal and this dealer repaired it) without any issues and everything done to ista protocol (including torque specs which is rare to see as techs normally go hand tight and never use torque wrenches) I really do appreciate and trust my dealer now.



Also if you plan on keeping the car long term you need to some how get the dealer to warranty the diff long term.

Could you also keep me posted on the servicing they do (oil change etc) for the final service? I am interested as well since my final service is coming up.
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      08-22-2020, 04:46 PM   #82
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BMW's MSP/A and Castrol's SAF-XJ are interchangeable:

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ide/1VndHi1Cfw
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      08-22-2020, 05:17 PM   #83
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My break in sheet says they used 07512293972 just like JustinHEMI

This was 3 years ago, lol.

Guessing/hoping it's just a wrong part# on the invoice. Going to call them Monday and ask them to replace it with the correct fluid just to be safe.
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      08-22-2020, 05:18 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
BMW's MSP/A and Castrol's SAF-XJ are interchangeable:

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ide/1VndHi1Cfw
Yes I know that, but here is where the issues come into play:

1) I hate to be the guy that is ragging to stay with oem fluids but in this case after seeing so many bmw M diffs on the F series fail, and seeing bmw switch fluids to MSP/A which has a different viscosity and overall physical characteristics (as posted in the link above, and on second though I might start a thread on BOITOG to discuss this and send some oil for analysis to see what changed in the additive packs) I really did not want to risk diff failure and decided to stick with the bmw required fluid which is MSP/A.

2) I also initially wanted to run Castrol SAF-XJ but this oil is discontinued (confirmed in the call with castrol) by castrol and now only available as the reformulated castrol syntrax limited slip 75w-140 oil, which is also approved according to tis. But I called castrol to confirm this and ask if they added additional friction modifiers above what was required by the bmw spec and went all the way up their customer service ladder and they could not dig up any bmw certifications for this product after their reformulation. They even advised me to stick with the bmw suggested MSP/A. So this has me a bit worried because the TIS approved it, and normally bmw approved oils have the bmw certification letter with signatures if you email and ask the company (you can find examples of this on some of redline's oils).


Overall what I suggest personally is use MSP/A if you can get it, if not dealer filled SAF-XJ should be fine as it was used before without real issues (since I believe the diff failures were clutch pack related not oil related), and if you can't get either go with the tis approved alternatives.
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      08-22-2020, 05:22 PM   #85
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My break in sheet says they used 07512293972 just like JustinHEMI

This was 3 years ago, lol.

Guessing/hoping it's just a wrong part# on the invoice. Going to call them Monday and ask them to replace it with the correct fluid just to be safe.
That is not good to hear, I hope your diff is ok. This is also really worrying because you are the 3rd person on here with this issue, I wonder how many others are also getting the wrong oil - maybe this is why these diffs kept failing so soon pre-recall.


IMO I think it has been too long for them to confirm if it was a mistaken p/n because they are supposed to enter the items used during service and that is the only record kept, and since it has been over 3 years it will be difficult to back track inventory.
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      08-22-2020, 06:44 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
That is not good to hear, I hope your diff is ok. This is also really worrying because you are the 3rd person on here with this issue, I wonder how many others are also getting the wrong oil - maybe this is why these diffs kept failing so soon pre-recall.


IMO I think it has been too long for them to confirm if it was a mistaken p/n because they are supposed to enter the items used during service and that is the only record kept, and since it has been over 3 years it will be difficult to back track inventory.
Everything feels fine thus far. Probably no way to be sure, but I can probably make them replace it with the correct fluid. Best case scenario, I get fresh fluid free of charge. Worst case, my diff explodes in the near future. Only one way to find out...
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      08-22-2020, 07:05 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewC1989 View Post
Everything feels fine thus far. Probably no way to be sure, but I can probably make them replace it with the correct fluid. Best case scenario, I get fresh fluid free of charge. Worst case, my diff explodes in the near future. Only one way to find out...
Good to hear there are no obvious signs of failure at the moment.

Have you tracked the car?
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      08-22-2020, 07:09 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Good to hear there are no obvious signs of failure at the moment.

Have you tracked the car?
I haven't, it's just a leisurely weekender with 10k miles on the clock.
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