[MagnusT]

Originally Posted by kart driver

But I have ordered street version of Millway camber plates and OEM suspension.
And it says the following:

“The adjustment range is 24mm. That is approximatly -2,3 extra camber than OEM. So expect to reach around -3,2 degree of camber on max. (Max camber depends on suspension setup)”


https://www.millway.se/camber-plates...mw-m2c-m4.html


So what is the maximum I can do with the above? -2.3 front? Or -3.2 front?

On my car I can only get max 2,0 rear but in the front with the solid plates I think I could get close to 3,5 or so, not 100% sure exactly since I ran lower camber since I'm doing 25000 km per year.

Currently for a mix of trackdays and 25000km / year I have maxed out in the rear at 2,0 and front (street plates) set to 3,3.

https://rejsa.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1615730#1615730

[kart driver]

Originally Posted by MagnusT

On my car I can only get max 2,0 rear but in the front with the solid plates I think I could get close to 3,5 or so, not 100% sure exactly since I ran lower camber since I'm doing 25000 km per year.

Currently for a mix of trackdays and 25000km / year I have maxed out in the rear at 2,0 and front (street plates) set to 3,3.

https://rejsa.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1615730#1615730

Got it. Many thanks again!

[Bewstd]

Originally Posted by MagnusT

I ran the original Millway top mounts for three years or so. Recently swapped to the street version. Massive reduction in road surface noise. My laptimes did not change whatsoever of course

Good to hear! I daily drive me car with M performance Coilovers and Need something comfy for the street

[MR RIZK]

With the Millway street's they don't achieve as much camber as the spherical version. Nearly the same but there is a difference.

[Bewstd]

Originally Posted by MR RIZK

With the Millway street's they don't achieve as much camber as the spherical version. Nearly the same but there is a difference.

okay what about the track vs the GC set?

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by Bewstd

okay what about the track vs the GC set?

The spherical camber plates will have a better motion range and angle and will allow the suspension to work a little bit more efficiently but if you can feel or care about the difference you already deep into track setup or your racing professionally..

[MagnusT]

I think the OG might be able to go higher on camber than Comp with the Millways. Not 100% sure but a friend with a Comp said there might be a slight difference.

On my OG there is room for more when set to 3,3

[MR RIZK]

Originally Posted by Bewstd

okay what about the track vs the GC set?

That I'm unsure of. The owner of Millway posted the difference in a thread hence passing it on. I run vorshlag camber plates on my M2C

[kart driver]

Originally Posted by kart driver

Just received these today.

https://www.millway.se/camber-plates...mpetition.html



.

The above will be returned to the dealer.


Ordered directly from Samuel the Street version of Millway camber plates.
Planning to install those tomorrow.

[kart driver]

Installed the camber plates + installed the racing brake pads instead of OEM.

They shop could do the following camber:

Front: -2.2 degrees
Rear: -1.8 degrees

I got the following:

1) My lap time became worse, being almost 2 seconds slower (on a 85 minute racetrack) that comparing to OEM set up with no camber plates in place
2) I didn’t like how the tires worked:
- the car was not able to slow down at the same points as I did with OEM setup last week
- the car became extremely tail happy, I had to catch it a lot when it oversteered comparing with last week when I had all OEM set up
3) The bite of the brake pads is better comparing to OEM, you can feel it immediately.
4) With the camber that I have now, the wear of the tires is more in the middle, than it used to be before with OEM set up.


What could be wrong? Any ideas?


I have a feeling that if I just go back to OEM camber angles, the handling will be better and the lap time will also be better.


P.S. I am really pushing the car a lot and use the brakes quite aggressively.

Again:
M2C, OEM everything (except for the camber plates, racing brake pads, castrol SRF fluid), michelin cup2 tires 245+265.

[MR RIZK]

There is smarter people then me but my take is if the track is tight and you are not loading the rear in say longer corners the additional camber in the rear will mean u loose grip vs gain grip. Same for straight line braking as you have less contact to the track.

My reasoning is when I went with a more aggressive setup my street grip dramatically reduced in tight corners and oversteered everywhere but on the B roads it made a huge positive difference.

Let's see what the smarter people say.

[MagnusT]

What track is it, i'd like to see the layout.

If it only has VERY slow speed (and short!) corners (like a gokart track) you would benefit from lower camber settings. But 2,2 front and 1,8 rear is low already, so low it will not affect braking (so long you have correct tire pressures!)

Did you adjust heights? Changing the rake of the car can play havoc on the handling.

Also, video would be very beneficial, or even log from Racechrono or so.

[MagnusT]

Oh one more thing, do you trail brake?

[kart driver]

Originally Posted by MagnusT

Oh one more thing, do you trail brake?

Yep ))

I have some racing experience with 911 cup cars and cayman club sport ))

[kart driver]

Originally Posted by MagnusT

What track is it, i'd like to see the layout.

If it only has VERY slow speed (and short!) corners (like a gokart track) you would benefit from lower camber settings. But 2,2 front and 1,8 rear is low already, so low it will not affect braking (so long you have correct tire pressures!)

Did you adjust heights? Changing the rake of the car can play havoc on the handling.

Also, video would be very beneficial, or even log from Racechrono or so.

It is an old rubbish race track.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodrome_Chaika





Proper tire pressures being 2.0 BAR when hot

Height of the car is OEM. It has OEM suspension.



I tried couple of sessions with my 911 gt3 and it drove just perfect! The car is properly balanced, no issues at all! And I showed pretty good lap times already starting from session 1 immediately.


But the idea is to make the M2C running fast enough to prove to local Porsche drivers at the Time Attack competition in 2 weeks from now that M2C is faster that their Caymans and 911s )))

The thing is that I already showed the lap time with the M2c during a training session last week which was already on par with their best driver in 911 (category of cars up to 430 hp). At that time everything was OEM.

[Daytona_550]

Front -2.2 degrees is not much negative camber. And rear -1.8 degrees is stock camber (at least that's what my stock M2C had when I did my first alignment). I wouldn't think you have an alignment issue unless it somehow got knocked out of alignment early in your sessions.

Is 2.0 bar (~29psi) tire pressure the recommended hot pressure for Cups? Seems low for hot tires. I usually start (with RE71Rs) at 28-29psi and get to 34-36 hot in a session.

[MagnusT]

2.0 when hot is a bit low for CUP2 since M2 is as heavy as it is. 2.2 is a good goal. Porsches can usually run lower, so there 2.0 sounds fine.

[MagnusT]

A lot of 180 degrees on the track, how slow are they at Vmin?

[MagnusT]

You obviously have experience, do you have a background tracking heavy front engine cars also? There is a huge difference with the front end "bite" you can get, and adapt to use, with the heavy engine over the front wheels compared to both rear and midengined Porsches. Just double checking that you do adapt your driving style :-)

[kart driver]

Originally Posted by MagnusT

You obviously have experience, do you have a background tracking heavy front engine cars also? There is a huge difference with the front end "bite" you can get, and adapt to use, with the heavy engine over the front wheels compared to both rear and midengined Porsches. Just double checking that you do adapt your driving style :-)

I had owned M cars for quite a long time before I bought my first 911.
I would say I had to adapt to 911 after driving M cars, being originally the front engine cars driver ))

Originally Posted by MagnusT

A lot of 180 degrees on the track, how slow are they at Vmin?

Those are not slow as they are pretty long distance corners.
I want to hope I will learn tomorrow how to make my Race Navigator operating tomorrow and then I will be able to tell

Originally Posted by MagnusT

2.0 when hot is a bit low for CUP2 since M2 is as heavy as it is. 2.2 is a good goal. Porsches can usually run lower, so there 2.0 sounds fine.

Originally Posted by Daytona_550

Is 2.0 bar (~29psi) tire pressure the recommended hot pressure for Cups? Seems low for hot tires. I usually start (with RE71Rs) at 28-29psi and get to 34-36 hot in a session.

Well, I thought that if 2.4 is recommened by the manufacturer fir a partial load, then 2.0 is a good goal for the racetrack.

And besides that I also used 2.0 when I managed to be 2 seconds faster last week. So the current 2 seconds penalty now is definitely not because of low tire pressures.

[MagnusT]

2.0 or 2.2 will mainly affect wear rather than laptimes. Grasping at straws here. You are still on very low camber, these are not racetrack cambers at all. I have much higher corner speeds with 3.3 than 2.8 degrees camber in mid to high speed corners. Noticeable difference in front grip. In low speed corners it's another thing but as you said, these corners are not slow so... very odd.

Where in the corner does the tail let go. And what driver input helps mitigate it and what driver input makes it happen?

[Caduceus]

Did you have the front toe checked after adding camber?

Moving the top of a Macpherson strut inboard to add negative camber will induce toe-out. This assumes the car has positive castor which virtually every modern vehicle, including your BMW does.

If I go from -2.0 street to -3.5 track camber setting, my toe goes from 1mm in to 7mm out. That’s a lot! It requires a corresponding 1/2 turn on each tie rod to bring it back to zero toe for the track alignment.

Front toe is the first thing I’d have checked. A lot of toe out on a RWD car will mess up the handling and mess up your tyres.