[desertfox73]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Driving a DCT is always less involving **by definition*.

To say otherwise is preposterous. It's the raison detre for an automatic transmission, so that one doesn't have to do part of the work !

If one were Juggling items - when is juggling two items ever " more involving " than three ?

You may be able to focus better on the two items but clearly there is less involvement.

Being more focused on fewer tasks does not equal more involving

I'm not sure I completely agree with this. Objectively, you're probably right, making one key assumption: that all drivers are equally mentally engaged. I know many people who are oblivious drivers of manual transmissions, while others are deeply connected drivers of DCT or auto. For me, that's why the hardware definition of driver engagement is nearly irrelevant. I don't think one can plainly say that auto or manual is a more engaging format, to me it all depends on what format allows the driver the highest form of mental acuity. But everything about driving is subjective, so I don't expect agreement here.

[Diver]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

Autos have been faster than manuals for a long time now, ever since 5+ forward gears and locking torque converters. The "involvement" argument has nothing to do with sour grapes. Some of us enjoy the experience. If pure speed is what you're after, 1) why are you driving a BMW, and 2) what will you say when a self-driving electric car sets faster lap times than something more traditional?

In my case, driving in city traffic favors an automatic. Once self driving cars are faster than humans, motorsport events will have human only rules.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

Any BMW , even the most boring 2er Tourer is more of a track car than any Porsche at this very moment.

@André: Jaap in de bocht lol.

Cheers
Robin

Bear with me here, but I feel like there *might* be a bit of false advertisement going on here.

[desertfox73]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

Bear with me here, but I feel like there *might* be a bit of false advertisement going on here.

No - it's quite accurate, in the literal sense. If that car is driven that way, it will be the last one you ever drive.

[juniortabak]

So basically an M235 Ac schnitzer...

[ron_jeremy]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

We can always dream.

More likely: ///M2 CSL w/4 Cyl Turbo & eDrive.

But the CSL (lightweight) vs edrive and extra kg on top, it doesn't sound plausible imo.
If they were to make a M2 CSL, which i'd love to see - the E46 M3 CSL is my all time favorite, i can't see that happen with a two solution drivetrain, it's just getting to heavy isn't it?

[F82FTW]

Originally Posted by swilliams

Reasons why I don't care to wait for an M2 GTS or CS:

1. No longer a good value/affordable
2. Wing looks like complete $#!+
3. No 6MT, most likely
4. Will be limited production, stupid hard to find, or will be sold to BMW "friends" only.
5. Pretty sure no matter what they do, I'd rather have a 2017 M2 + E46 M3. For 120K Euro I could add a 1M, as well.

Oh and...
6. S55 sounds like garbage - do. not. want.

Your post is pretty funny.

So much hate! Lmao..

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by desertfox73

I'm not sure I completely agree with this. Objectively, you're probably right, making one key assumption: that all drivers are equally mentally engaged. I know many people who are oblivious drivers of manual transmissions, while others are deeply connected drivers of DCT or auto. For me, that's why the hardware definition of driver engagement is nearly irrelevant. I don't think one can plainly say that auto or manual is a more engaging format, to me it all depends on what format allows the driver the highest form of mental acuity. But everything about driving is subjective, so I don't expect agreement here.

And now we're at it, why do 'we' have power steering, servo powered discbrakes around with abs, fuel injection, synchromesh gears and all those electronic nannie stuff on modern(...) (70-80-90s etc) 'purists' cars?
Let's go back to the days of carburettors and handstarters and human throttle blips

Wait, also skip the aircon lol.

Cheers
Robin

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by desertfox73

No - it's quite accurate, in the literal sense. If that car is driven that way, it will be the last one you ever drive.

I almost spilled my coffee.

Cheers
Robin

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by ron_jeremy

But the CSL (lightweight) vs edrive and extra kg on top, it doesn't sound plausible imo.
If they were to make a M2 CSL, which i'd love to see - the E46 M3 CSL is my all time favorite, i can't see that happen with a two solution drivetrain, it's just getting to heavy isn't it?

It is inevitable.

[kerrsy44]

Worth it just got the mirrors isn't it?????
Haha

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Mustangquadcam

Probably out of my price range.

Dack, what are you hearing about a possible 4 door M2?

Not a thing.

[clbmw]

Why not make a CSL and a GTS, the latter would have to be the second fastest BMW by default and ridiculously expensive, the former would have lots of sales driven by the latter by people with normal pocket depths

[S65V8]

Originally Posted by W///

Why not? I'm not saying I can afford a $110k car. We've seen how close the M4 GTS comes to a 991 GT3. Is it as fast? No. But I think we're all surprised by just how GOOD the reviews have been for that car.

Now imagine if they do the same thing on an even smaller car, which I don't think they will, but that's another story.

I'm all about variety!... even if I can't afford them

Not questioning the performance of GTS cars at all, think they're amazing on paper in their own right.

Ultimately, if I'm spending over a $100k on a "sports car", I'm going to go for a GT level P-car and all that experience delivers (beyond just being fast on paper) vs. a fringe M car. Nothing bad about a GTS M car at all (very impressive on paper), just not where I'd first spend $110k+. I'd probably drop $90k on a used GT4 (if I could find one), and drop another $20k into converting it into a 4.0 stroker which DeMan MS locally does already.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Diver

Sick. The usual debate over MT vs Auto bores me. Once MT was faster and more efficient than Auto. Those days are over, so the MT guys have moved on to subjective stuff like involvement. Driving a DCT fast with the paddles is pretty damn involving even if your left foot's only use is to hold you in the seat better.

Won't be decades before the majority of cars will go electric with just 2 gears: 1 forward + 1 reverse (maybe an additional fast forward gear like in 80s arcade race games). No third pedal or paddles anymore. Just a couple of buttons/settings with modes for moods and different weather types.

By then, this whole 'MT versus DCT/auto' debate will only matter when buying an 'old' car.

[Kolyan2k]

Sounds like cheap used M2s about to hit the market

But seriously, double is too much. Should be like $20k extra max

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by swilliams

Reasons why I don't care to wait for an M2 GTS or CS:

1. No longer a good value/affordable
2. Wing looks like complete $#!+
3. No 6MT, most likely
4. Will be limited production, stupid hard to find, or will be sold to BMW "friends" only.
5. Pretty sure no matter what they do, I'd rather have a 2017 M2 + E46 M3. For 120K Euro I could add a 1M, as well.

Oh and...
6. S55 sounds like garbage - do. not. want.

Same here….for that kind of money there are way better options

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by ried

For more money than a Porsche GT4? Get real.

I rather have a GT4 then a M2 GTS or M4 GTS!

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by bim2er

Would you prefer a Porsche Cayman GT4 to a BMW M4 GTS if their pricing were equivalent?

I would still take the GT4!

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by Advevo

Most of the m4 GTS are bought as an investment. Not for hammering around tracks. Thats because the are insanely priced!

Even people find the gt3 rs become to expensive to run on track days. So what s the use of building them anyway.

If BMW would make a better m2 for track then build it for a normal price and build enough for the track day users. Otherwise don t bother building one!

+ 1
M2 with fixed bucket seats or performance seats (+ roll cage option), adjustable suspension (KW clubsport style), lower weight, steel brakes (price wise), CSL style wheels, a small gain in HP.

[csbear]

I'm thinking even if they made the car, it would not be double the price as said in OP's post. BMW knows what they are up against in such a price range.

-The base Cayman (718) is currently about $54,950 in the U.S.
-The outgoing, top-of-the-line GT Cayman is $85,650.

About $30,000 difference.

Doubling the M2's price increases the model ranges price by about $50,000.

I don't think BMW would do it... (or would they? )

[EzequielR]

This would be sick!!! But what are we looking at in terms of price tag? I'm guessing 115k