[Tes]

After nachob comments and guidance, I think I found a good oil for the M2 from what I can tell. Given Pennzoil Euro is LL04 and the BMW 5W-30 I have to buy online anyways. I'm going to go with LiquiMoly SAE5W-30 Special Tec B FE. The stuff is fully synthetic and has specification & approval for BMW Long Life-01 FE. From what I can tell the thing is kind of hard to source for Canada, but I found a actual local shop in town that will get it for me for 58 CAD per 5L, pretty good deal IMO looking at online USD prices XD (It is actually cheaper than the what dealership sales 0W-30 LL-01FE for, they charge 16 CAD per 1L in Canada...)

[D CHOI]

BMW dealership has been putting their 0w30 LL01-FE (Penzoil) in my M2 for the past 3 years but now my free maintenance is over.

I'm looking to either stick with the OEM oil they have been using or go with LiquiMoly SAE 5W-30 Special Tec B which is BMW LL01-FE approved.

Not many oil companies got the new approval of BMW LL01-FE as that is made for newer engines. I'm not sure how important that is to get oil with "FE" approval but in our manual it says the alternative LL01 is only up to 1 quart allowed.

I have BM3 stage 2 tune in Vegas so not sure if that should go into consideration what oil I should be using from here forward at 38k miles.

[tranck]

Originally Posted by D CHOI

BMW dealership has been putting their 0w30 LL01-FE (Penzoil) in my M2 for the past 3 years but now my free maintenance is over.

I'm looking to either stick with the OEM oil they have been using or go with LiquiMoly SAE5W-30 Special Tec B which is BMW LL01-FE approved.

Not many oil companies got the new approval of BMW LL01-FE as that is made for newer engines. I'm not sure how important that is to get oil with "FE" approval but in our manual it says the alternative LL01 is only up to 1 quart allowed.

I have BM3 stage 2 tune in Vegas so not sure if that should go into consideration what oil I should be using from here forward at 38k miles.

Another option is MOTUL 8100 5W-40 and no FE. It's LL01 approved.

[D CHOI]

Originally Posted by tranck

Another option is MOTUL 8100 5W-40 and no FE. It's LL01 approved.

That is also a 40 weight. Not sure If I'm comfortable moving up to that even tho I live in Vegas and running Stage 2.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by D CHOI

That is also a 40 weight. Not sure If I'm comfortable moving up to that even tho I live in Vegas and running Stage 2.

It's really sad what BMW has done I don't blame you for your concern BMW in all their infinite wisdom to sell cars to the general non-car public have continued their campaign of stupification. The dropped the oil temp gauge for a nonsense glowing logo. Now after at least 50 years of listing the approved viscocity ranges in the owner manuals, they even stopped doing that by just saying to call the dealer. I'm sorry if i sound frustrated, I didn't realize BMW did that on the M2 manuals. The previous manuals clearly state that 0W-30, 5W-30, 0W-40 and 5W-40 are ALL approved as long as LL-01. Here is a picture of the E82 Owners manual and you will find in all the manuals before this because the oils overlap for most of their heat range.

So if you are living in Vegas with modified car making more boost then by all means you are a prime candidate for 5W-40. BMW quit caring about old school knowledgeable car people..the dropped the dipstick, then the temp gague, then digitized sound now they won't even list the approved oil range on the manual. Maddening in my humble opinion. If you know of a knowledgeable service advisor then feel free to contact them but in my experience they don't know themselves they just read what came with the car and tell you that is recommended.

Here are the facts. In 2017 BMW was selling shell made M TwinTurbo 0w-40 for all turbo M cars. It was not only approved, it was considered an upgrade accessory! Your M2 motor is not significantly different than the N54 unless you have the M2CS. Notice the 1M manual even lists the same 0W-30FE liquid they recommend for your M2 back in 2011.

Here are the specs for the now discontinued 0W-40 oil that was recommended by BMW for your M2. I asked my dealer why they discontinued and they told me it didn't sell. Probably for the same reason people didn't know if it was OK to use and even the service department didn't know it existed the first time I asked for an oil change with it.

Finally, I ask you to think logically. You took a stock car that is running one grade of Fuel Efficient oil and modified it to make more power. It makes more power with more boost. Boost makes more heat as air is compresed it heats up yet you you leave the stock grade oil? When you modify you have to think holistically or I recommend put it back to stock.

I hope this helps and I hope it doesn't come across poorly or lecturish. : )

[D CHOI]

Found some interesting links relating to "LL01-FE" oils

https://www.liqui-moly.us/en/service...w-30-4413.html

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Fluids/O...ngine-Oil.html

[D CHOI]

Originally Posted by nachob

Finally, I ask you to think logically. You took a stock car that is running one grade of Fuel Efficient oil and modified it to make more power. It makes more power with more boost. Boost makes more heat as air is compresed it heats up yet you you leave the stock grade oil? When you modify you have to think holistically or I recommend put it back to stock.

I hope this helps and I hope it doesn't come across poorly or lecturish. : )

I actually had this thought initially myself if I need to upgrade to a 40w because of all these facts. But with some mixed opinions from people and other forums, I figured I can't go wrong with what the book says to be safe.

I'm also waiting on BM3 support on this to see what their opinion is on a tuned car recommending a higher weight oil.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by D CHOI

I actually had this thought initially myself if I need to upgrade to a 40w because of all these facts. But with some mixed opinions from people and other forums, I figured I can't go wrong with what the book says to be safe.

I'm also waiting on BM3 support on this to see what their opinion is on a tuned car recommending a higher weight oil.

The whole premise of this thread in a nutshell is that BMW has to find an oil that works for everyone in the world, for every situation, every government and it has to balance many things. So for you, your top priority is to keep your engine lasting a long time. Period. BMWs priority is meet emissions and mileage standards by thinning oil, reducing costs by stocking one oil that will work OK all over the world, etc. So their interest in keeping your engine lasting forever is lower than yours. Now that oil is barely meets the long term needs for a stock motor in mild climate Bavaria. You have modified yours to make more boost and live in one of the hottest climates in North America. You are not what this 0W oil was designed for. As I mentioned by ommiting the approved viscocities from the manual they have made you doubt. I have shown you that BMW itself has approved 0W-40 and 5W-40 for our motors and even had one on the market recently. YOu can still even buy it! And if you have any doubts you really should get 7 liters of it ASAP running a boosted motor in August in Las Vegas. It says right there on the bottle and specs for ALL M Cars except the non-turbo M cars.

Finally on different opinions, we all have them but they are not all equal. People think that everyone's opinion is equal online. A few years back a bunch of people were saying it's better to abuse your car right away then break it in. That break in was unnecessary and just a CYA thing. I know better I spent time working in the test department dyno for a factory GTP team and I guarantee you that if it was true that you just instantly abuse a motor to get better ring seating then every race team in the world would be doing it. They don't. They break their motors in on a dyno. That doesn't even cover all of the other components that nead break-in like your trick M differential, grearbox, brakes etc. Not to mention that the stupid article that everyone quotes about ring seating was written ages ago by a motorcycle guy using a cast sleeve and aluminum piston. Guess our cars DON'T use a cast iron sleeve. Yet everyone quotes this idiocy. Our cylinders use material welded onto the aluminum block and machined. It is different than the old motorcycle engine. Anyway, despite all of this and acknowledging that I am not an expert, I reached out the head of M in Europe that I met during my Euro Delivery and I asked him about this. He wrote me back saying no, we break all our cars in even our press cars and it is important to break in the car. So I post this letter and some guy just says...."well that's his opinion."

Therein lies the problem. Someone just went through the trouble of contacting the head of M who says and some unknown guy says my opinion is just as valuable as his.

So the key is to find educated opinions. 0W-30 will work in your situation but you have little margin now. As oil degrades it loses it's lubricating ability. You are pushing more air and fuel into a direct injected motor. Not only is increased heat putting a bigger load on your motor, but one the key reasons direct injected cars run synthetic oil is because fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber and can spray directly on the cylinder walls thereby mixing with the oil. Regular oil would break down quicker when mixing so they recommend synthetic as it breaks down slower.

So if you change your oil more often for example with 0W-30, that would be good too but if you don't once it gets broken down you are really running a 0W-20.

So the good thing is that you probably won't blow up your but you are asking it to do more without giving it more protection and that is really not a good idea generally. So I'm just some guy with an opinion too, but I hope you can find someone else that you trust and knows what they're talking about. And again all of this would be so much simpler if BMW just put the darn approved viscocities on the M2 manual like they did on all the previous manuals.

Cheers

[M Fifty]

You certainly have an opinion.

[D CHOI]

Here are some responses from multiple sources about which oil to use

BM3 tech support: Stick with OEM recommendation with narrower change intervals.

Local BMW shop: For M models, we are less concerned with FE (Fuel Economy Derived Oil
Formula) and much prefer the LL (Long Life Formula) for added wear
protection. We also prefer the 40w due to our high engine bay temps
especially in Summer.

However, if you prefer, we can run LM20444 Special Tec B FE 5w-30 which
does have the approval of LL-01FE.

Liqui Moly Tech support: BMW LL-01 FE is a "fuel efficient" oil as the FE implies and is what BMW states to use when the vehicle is in warranty. However since your car is modified this is not important anymore. What is important is the extra strain you're putting on that engine by raising the power level. This adds additional load to all engine parts end the crank bearing are especially sensitive to wear and will need all the help they can get from a more protective oil. The N55 engine has not been changed since it was introduced but our federal "average fuel consumption" regulations have and this is the reason BMW asks that you use the LL-01 FE specification oil. To gain any little bit of fuel mileage on their fleet of "new cars sold" in the US they have decided to use that specification even though it offer slightly less wear protection compared to a LL-01 high viscosity oil. Since the engine has not changed and BMW used to recommend a LL-01 oil for this engine you're safe to switch oils. And since you are in a hot climate and the engine output is higher than standard I recommend using our Leichtlauf High Tech 5W40 engine oil. This oil is approved by BMW as per the LL-01 specification and will be nuch more protective than the dealership oil. It is the same exact oil used by Turner Motorsport in their IMSA M6 GTD car and has been proven to withstand extreme racing as well as extreme oil temperatures without ever causing any damage or additional wear.

[D CHOI]

I did a oil measurement test and the good news is my car isn't burning oil at 38k miles. Not sure how accurate that reader is but I read someone put 7.5 liters in their M2 on accident and the measurement read fine.

I'm interested in getting a blackstone oil test to see how the BMW factory oil is holding up with stage 2 tune in Vegas with lot of spirited driving. I'm not familiar how the test works but I assume it should give me proper recommendations. If results come back fine I'm still open to try the 40w. But part of me feels like there has to be some trade-off for running the 40w if 30w is fine. If it's fuel economy then no big deal. But probably will take longer for oil to warm up to operating temperature. Kind of like if it's not broke don't fix it. But long term it feels like the 40w would be the safer play in my situation.

Anyone gotten oil test and shown signs of BMW oil not being sufficient with tuned car in hot climate?

[PackPride85]

I've seen a few blackstone tests for the 0w-30 at 10k miles that look fine. I think with a tune and spirited driving I'd still be fine with the 0w-30 but I'd probably change at 5k.

[Endeav]

I've been using Motul 8100 X-Cess 5W40 which is a LL01 rated oil in my M2. Oil change intervals are between 5000 - 7500 kilometers which is a tad on the excessive side, but I haven't ever had to add a drop of oil and this car sees some serious driving conditions / track time.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by D CHOI

I did a oil measurement test and the good news is my car isn't burning oil at 38k miles. Not sure how accurate that reader is but I read someone put 7.5 liters in their M2 on accident and the measurement read fine.

I'm interested in getting a blackstone oil test to see how the BMW factory oil is holding up with stage 2 tune in Vegas with lot of spirited driving. I'm not familiar how the test works but I assume it should give me proper recommendations. If results come back fine I'm still open to try the 40w. But part of me feels like there has to be some trade-off for running the 40w if 30w is fine. If it's fuel economy then no big deal. But probably will take longer for oil to warm up to operating temperature. Kind of like if it's not broke don't fix it. But long term it feels like the 40w would be the safer play in my situation.

Anyone gotten oil test and shown signs of BMW oil not being sufficient with tuned car in hot climate?

Put in 5w-40 Pennzoil 1k miles ago. Don't notice any difference, including warm up time. Figured North California is warm enough to be safe and I drive the car hard enough that more protection isn't a bad idea. Don't want to go on a back road run revving it out with degraded 0w-30. They used to put 5w-30 when I first got the car..

[M Fifty]

Originally Posted by akkando

Put in 5w-40 Pennzoil 1k miles ago. Don't notice any difference, including warm up time. Figured North California is warm enough to be safe and I drive the car hard enough that more protection isn't a bad idea. Don't want to go on a back road run revving it out with degraded 0w-30. They used to put 5w-30 when I first got the car..

Okay, can I test my understanding of the whole Xw-XX in this?

The Xw gives an indication of the viscosity when cold (there's a set temperature and the viscosity is equivalent to...).

The -XX gives an indication of the viscosity when hot (as with the Xw...)

Yes?

[akkando]

Originally Posted by M Fifty

Okay, can I test my understanding of the whole Xw-XX in this?

The Xw gives an indication of the viscosity when cold (there's a set temperature and the viscosity is equivalent to...).

The -XX gives an indication of the viscosity when hot (as with the Xw...)

Yes?

That's my understanding. A 0w-40 would be thinner when the oil is cold than a 5w-40 but in theory the same viscosity when up to temperature.

How much less protection does a 5w offer than 0w in a non freezing temperature start up? I don't know, but it seems to be safe according to general oil guidelines and BMW was putting a 5W-30 oil in originally when I bought the car. I would never tell anyone I know about oil. I just thought I drive the car pretty hard and it doesn't get that cold here so putting a high quality higher weight oil in might make sense or at least be *fine* for me. I couldn't find anyone with an N55 that had issues with it.

One thing to note though not all oils with the same rating are equal. There are different additives in each, some are thicker than others even if they are listed with the same viscosity numbers, some are going to sheer down thinner than others over time. I also own an e90 M3 with an s65 engine and that takes a 10w-60 from factory but Redline oil tends to be a little thicker so their 10w-60 seems too thick and the 5w-50 seems a better fit, and sheers down less so than other brands so after 5k miles it might be about the same as a sheered down 10w-60 from another brand.

[D CHOI]

I wonder if 40w is too high for the winter? I know some people change based on season. Worst case I can change again when winter comes.

[nioh_lbbm2]

Originally Posted by D CHOI

I wonder if 40w is too high for the winter? I know some people change based on season. Worst case I can change again when winter comes.

it....doesn't work that way. Once the engine and oil reach operating temp thats where the 2nd weight number comes into play.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by D CHOI

I wonder if 40w is too high for the winter? I know some people change based on season. Worst case I can change again when winter comes.

Yes this is a multi viscosity oil. When cold it is a 5w. When Hot 40w. Yes straight 40 weight would be too thick for cold start. For Las Vegas it would be fine even in winter. That is why tmy manual lists OW 40 and 5W 40 as appeoved

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by D CHOI

I wonder if 40w is too high for the winter? I know some people change based on season. Worst case I can change again when winter comes.

No...oil gets thinner when heated, and thicker when cooled

A 5W-40 oil at engine operating temperature is much much thinner than a 0W-30 oil in a cold engine

The outside temperature has nothing to do with the temperature inside the combustion engine when it's warmed up...a fire in winter is of a similar temperature to a fire in summer

[D CHOI]

Right thanks guys. I should of clarified what I was asking. I'm not concerned about the 0w or 5w but more about 40w during operating temperature even during winter time. Since I was told a 40w would be more beneficial during Summer so I figured during winter you can use a 30w.

I saw some people mentioning that here so was just following up on that.

[Tes]

I guess a quick update on my Special Tec B FE. Even on the back of the Special Tec B Fe, the film strength is a tad bit lower than the Special Tec LL 5W-30. I'll stick to running Special Tec B FE this year since I already bought it, but next year I'd probably just use 5W-30 Special Tec LL that is just BMW LL-01 not 01 FE. (Looking at the back the Special Tec LL a bit lower fuel efficiency but higher film strength). I'm still going to get my free oil changes from the dealer but I definitely will stop running the BMW 0W-30 as my blackstone lab results showed that the oil was definitely thin compared to specs when it was less than 3000 km on the oil.