BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 Discussions > My thoughts on M2 vs M3/4 & M235. Driven at Thermal Performance Center

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-10-2016, 02:48 PM   #1
LDSM
Captain
LDSM's Avatar
United_States
343
Rep
686
Posts

Drives: ...
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: ...

iTrader: (0)

My thoughts on M2 vs M3/4 & M235. Driven at Thermal Performance Center

I recently got back from one of the most amazing driving experiences and it was all paid for courtesy of BMW.

If any of you remember last year when the M2 was first launched, there was an Instagram challenge where you had to solve a few riddles to enter a drawing for the chance to be one of the first to drive the M2.
Well I entered that drawing but didn’t win...but luckily a friend of mine won, so I was still able to go. lol
The trip consisted of an all expenses paid trip to the BMW West Coast Performance center in Thermal California. We were enrolled in the 2 day Advanced M school, 2 nights at a resort, and free flight.


M235 vs M2
Let’s get to it, I currently drive an M235 with the 8 speed auto and I’ve taken the 235 on a few track days so far.
M235 vs M2. Night and day, It’s definitely more than just a tuned m235.
Anyone who looks at the numbers and feels disappointed really needs to drive this car before coming to a conclusion.

Exhaust, especially on start up, sounds perfect. It has a similar note to the m235 with the valves open, but louder and more aggressive, I wouldn’t spend the money changing it.

The DCT really changes the character of the car compared to the 8 speed in the m235, throttle control really feels more connected and direct. Handling wise the m235 is already great and balanced, so it’s hard to imagine they could’ve made it better, but they did. Where the m235 might have slight body roll in corners, the M2 has none, it feels flatter in the corners and it can handle the increased power with ease, the car doesn’t feel overpowered or underpowered. Looking at numbers and comparing the m235 you might wish for more power, but imo this car doesn’t need it.

Interior not much to say here, it’s the same as the m235, the cf trim is ok, but I preferred the glossy cf trim in the m3/4. And I kind of like the aluminum hex trim on the m235 better, but that’s a small detail and not that big of a deal.


M2 vs M3/4
This was of great interest to me, I along with many others on here, constantly wonder about the M2 vs. M3, M3 has more utility, more space, but the M2 is getting rave reviews and everyone is saying skip the M3/4.
I had never driven the M3/4 before this event and going into it I read all the reviews of the M2. In most reviews the M3/4 is getting completely blasted. It’s almost to the point where it seems like the journalists are saying, “BMW shouldn’t even even bother making that piece of trash M3/4 anymore.”

Having read all of this, I carried the impression that the M2 would feel great and the M3/4 would feel like driving a boat with wheels, but I didn’t get that impression at all.
On the smaller technical tracks, yes the M2 was easier to get around, and it was more nimble compared with an M3 we drove around a similar tight technical track for a session. The M3 felt bigger and a little harder to get around the tighter corners. The reviews were right about that, you could definitely tell the M2 was more tossable, easier to rotate and felt smaller and lighter.

But on the bigger, higher speed tracks, I actually preferred the M4. I had a little more confidence with the M4 on the big tracks, to me it felt a little more planted, and I felt more confortable at higher speeds and going faster into corners.
On the larger tracks I didn’t feel the same handling issues the M3 had with the smaller tracks.The M4 still felt very nimble around the big track and I was more comfortable taking corners with a higher speed in the M4 vs M2 on the same track.
(Here are some qualifications to this, we had the M4 on the larger tracks for multiple sessions, and we only had the M2 on the larger track for 1 session. Perhaps with more time this opinion would’ve changed)
I'm not saying the M2 handled bad on the larger track at all, I'm saying the M3/4 didn't feel anywhere close to as bad as some of these reviews make it seem.

I think the M3/4 is definitely getting a bad rap, the car is far from a boat. The car handles beautifully and it’s hard to compare the M2 to the M3/4 since they’re so different.
Before the event I was really under the impression that opting for the M3 over the M2 you’d be sacrificing a lot in terms of how the car feels and handles. But after this I don’t think that’s the case. If I had an M3/4 I wouldn’t be thinking about how much better the M2 drives, they both handle and feel great to drive, they’re 2 different cars and they feel like 2 different cars.


Steel M2 brakes vs M3/4 CCB brakes
I'll post the same thing I posted on AGAV13 thread.
A few other members that were also there gave their opinions in there too

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1234478

Not taking anything away from the M2's brakes, I didn't experience any fade from them at all, and stopping power was the same, they never got soft or anything like that, but jumping from those straight to the CCB's, you can really feel the difference with the CCB's.

It's not really a performance difference, it just has more to do with the feel of the pedal when braking hard. It's difficult to describe since it's not something you can measure, but the CCB's felt a little more firm and gave me more confidence when braking hard, and that feeling was more pronounced since we were driving them back to back.


West Coast Performance Driving School

The cars were great but what made the entire event spectacular was the entire BMW staff at the Thermal Club. The instructors are all awesome, really great crew over there and they are some extremely talented drivers! All with lots of racing background and long resumes, you'll definitely learn something from them.
Also that location is gorgeous, views of the mountains surrounding you, great weather, palm trees, you couldn't pick a better place to have a race track.

People dropping thousands $$$$ on plastic parts or exhausts and for that same price, you can participate in one of these schools. If you like cars and driving, you need to experience one of these performance schools at least once.


I’m not the best driver in the world or the best writer, but these were my thoughts after driving the M2 and my first time driving the M3/4. I'm no Chris Harris, but maybe this will help some of you out there.


I'll be posting more pics and vids on my instagram account
instagram.com/cars.at.night

and I'll try to update this with some video when I can

Here's a vid of the hotlap one of the instructors took us on

Attached Images
      

Last edited by LDSM; 03-14-2016 at 12:10 PM..
Appreciate 24
      03-10-2016, 02:52 PM   #2
jtodd_fl
2nd Asst to Dept Undersecretary
jtodd_fl's Avatar
6704
Rep
1,298
Posts

Drives: People crazy
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 F82 M4  [9.00]
2016 F87 M2  [0.00]
2011 E92 M3  [0.00]
Awesome input. You confuse us when you don't pick a side and insult the other side, though. This actually makes real sense. From someone who drive both on equal standing - no time (or emotional or financial investment) in either. An honest assessment. Thanks for this. Hopefully this will end some of the stupid debate that X is inherently better than Y or than if you have X you are stupid. Thank you thank you thank you.

Edit: Also, spot on. The first place you should invest in is the driver. Then the car.
__________________
This space for rent.
Appreciate 6
      03-10-2016, 02:57 PM   #3
LDSM
Captain
LDSM's Avatar
United_States
343
Rep
686
Posts

Drives: ...
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: ...

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtodd_fl View Post
Awesome input. You confuse us when you don't pick a side and insult the other side, though. This actually makes real sense. From someone who drive both on equal standing - no time (or emotional or financial investment) in either. An honest assessment. Thanks for this. Hopefully this will end some of the stupid debate that X is inherently better than Y or than if you have X you are stupid. Thank you thank you thank you.

Edit: Also, spot on. The first place you should invest in is the driver. Then the car.
Thanks, which part is confusing though, I didn't mean to come off insulting to any side, I'd like to correct that.
Appreciate 0
      03-10-2016, 02:57 PM   #4
Verbiage
Dismembered Member
Verbiage's Avatar
Jamaica
3581
Rep
9,213
Posts

Drives: F80 ZCP 6MT, R55 Clubman S 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: DMV

iTrader: (6)

Thank you very much for sharing!
__________________

My delivery experience and beach photoshoot here.
Appreciate 1
      03-10-2016, 02:58 PM   #5
W///
Lieutenant General
W///'s Avatar
7436
Rep
12,293
Posts

Drives: F82GTS, E36/E92M3, Z4M
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SC

iTrader: (13)

Amazing review. Wow, I didn't actually think that riddle thing was legit haha. That's great to hear your thoughts on the M3/4. I personally like M2 and M3, but I'd just use them for different purposes if that makes sense. Also on top of that, the Competition Pack is right around the corner, and from everything we've read, it should make a really nice improvement.

Congrats, sounds like a hell of a day.
__________________
Current:
16 F82 M4 GTS, Black Sapphire/Black, DCT
08 E92 M3, Sparkling Graphite/Bamboo Beige, 6MT
07 E85 Z4M Roadster, Alpine White/Red, 6MT
99 E36 M3, Techno Violet/Dove Grey, 6MT
Appreciate 1
      03-10-2016, 02:58 PM   #6
Verbiage
Dismembered Member
Verbiage's Avatar
Jamaica
3581
Rep
9,213
Posts

Drives: F80 ZCP 6MT, R55 Clubman S 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: DMV

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDSM View Post
Thanks, which part is confusing though, I didn't mean to come off insulting to any side, I'd like to correct that.
He is just being sarcastic. I have been rubbing off on him.
__________________

My delivery experience and beach photoshoot here.
Appreciate 1
      03-10-2016, 02:59 PM   #7
jtodd_fl
2nd Asst to Dept Undersecretary
jtodd_fl's Avatar
6704
Rep
1,298
Posts

Drives: People crazy
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 F82 M4  [9.00]
2016 F87 M2  [0.00]
2011 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDSM View Post
Thanks, which part is confusing though, I didn't mean to come off insulting to any side, I'd like to correct that.
Sorry - that was a little bit of sarcasm, The confusing part is that you didn't take sides. It was balanced, fair and reasonable and well-articulated. So, naturally, I was confused. Thanks for a good write up. Great to hear.
__________________
This space for rent.
Appreciate 2
      03-10-2016, 03:03 PM   #8
RingMeister01
Croatian
RingMeister01's Avatar
No_Country
880
Rep
3,613
Posts

Drives: PORSCHE
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Great feed back. Thanks for sharing!
__________________
NARDO GREY '18 PANAMERA TURBO
Ducati V4 S Corse (track only)
Husqvarna FS450 (track only)
Looking for an SUV
Appreciate 1
      03-10-2016, 03:13 PM   #9
jcocke
Enlisted Member
20
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: Future M2
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: VA

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the awesome writeup and your analysis. Sounds like your take is directly in line with what I think the main difference is: the wheelbase. Longer wheelbase cars always tend to feel more comfortable on fast, large radius corners. Naturally, shorter wheel base cars are more tossable and are quicker to react, feeling more responsive. When in fact, the overall ultimate grip is probably the same, or even a little more in favor of the M3/M4. I have driven both an F80 M3 and an M235, but I have an M2 on order. I loved the way both of those cars drove, but you said...they are different cars. I too get sick of the "mine is better than yours" talk, when there are only a handful of people who have actually driven an M2...and most all of those people have very little track experience, and therefore little knowledge of what understeer or oversteer, slip angle, etc, actually are.

All that being said...which car was more fun for you to drive?
Appreciate 3
      03-10-2016, 04:07 PM   #10
LDSM
Captain
LDSM's Avatar
United_States
343
Rep
686
Posts

Drives: ...
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: ...

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtodd_fl View Post
Sorry - that was a little bit of sarcasm, The confusing part is that you didn't take sides. It was balanced, fair and reasonable and well-articulated. So, naturally, I was confused. Thanks for a good write up. Great to hear.
Ahhh got it, at first I was like huh, did I forget to delete something

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcocke View Post

All that being said...which car was more fun for you to drive?
That's hard, I really can't choose, I liked them both.
I'm not very good at autocross or smaller tighter technical tracks, and I prefer bigger tracks. So in this case I was more exited to get back into the M4's and onto the big track. And I think the M3's look the best in person.

But, driving my 235 around town on and the highway, I really do like the size of it. It seems more manageable on the road, the smaller size and agility makes every turn more fun.(Compared to the F30 328 I had before this).
I'd have to drive an F80 in everyday situations to compare.
Appreciate 2
      03-10-2016, 05:36 PM   #11
CAVU
Captain
CAVU's Avatar
United_States
149
Rep
929
Posts

Drives: '16 F87 M2
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (0)

Really nice write up LDSM. I've driven the M235i, M3, M4, and other M and non-M cars and feel they are all great cars, it really comes down to personal preference. I haven't heard or read any opinions based on first-hand experience that suggest I won't enjoy the M2 as my next daily driver.

Up until this latest round of reviews this week, I've been pretty set on getting the M Perf suspension and possibly M Perf exhaust. I think I'm going to save my money for tires, brake pads, the 2-day M school, and a handful of HPDEs.
__________________

F87 '16 M2 ... Mineral Grey, 6MT, Exec, MPE
Gone: E82 '13 135is 475/586 ... Mineral Grey / Oyster, DCT, Premium, Tech, HK, Michelin PSS, BMW Performance Suspension
Appreciate 2
      03-10-2016, 05:37 PM   #12
Nine Lives
Captain
Nine Lives's Avatar
United Kingdom
602
Rep
886
Posts

Drives: Austin Maxi
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Thanks and great insight,like others have said,one heck of a day especially when it was on the back of a competition win...A fantastic experience sure enough.
Appreciate 1
      03-10-2016, 05:48 PM   #13
Prodigy.
Lieutenant Colonel
Prodigy.'s Avatar
Australia
698
Rep
1,514
Posts

Drives: ///M2
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Thanks mate, fantastic review and a great insight into the differences between the 4 cars from someone who has actually driven them.
Appreciate 1
      03-10-2016, 05:49 PM   #14
Bosozoku
Almost completely sane
Bosozoku's Avatar
United_States
694
Rep
1,080
Posts

Drives: '17 M2, '00 S2000
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDSM View Post
... People dropping thousands $$$$ on plastic parts or exhausts and for that same price, you can do participate in one of these. ...
Amen to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDSM View Post
... If you like cars and driving, you need to experience one of these performance schools at least once. ...
And to that also.
__________________
'17 BMW M2 (BSM 6MT Exec CarPlay, TechnicPnP ASD bypass, IND M Perf shift knob + keyhole cover, Pedal Haus pedals + heel plate, 3M CR90 tint, BavSound Ghost woofers, Racing Dynamics strut tower brace, Dinan midpipe, Turner intercooler)
'00 Honda S2000 (Silverstone Metallic, black leather, factory titanium shift knob + front lip + trunk spoiler, front shock tower brace, front subframe x-brace)
Appreciate 1
      03-10-2016, 06:04 PM   #15
csbear
Major
csbear's Avatar
1118
Rep
1,054
Posts

Drives: SO M2C
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Las Vegas, NV

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the write up! And I also agree that the some of the M3/M4 bashing is just hater-ade. For example, publications (or should I say, tabloids) like Jalopnik love to bash on cars that are of the BMW M ilk, but it's ok to love American muscle because it's more affordable. That way they have click-bait title links (see: "The Porsche 911R Is Bullshit Compared To The Corvette Grand Sport"), and their targeted reader demographic can all agree in unison.

The M2 is getting the current love, but the M3/M4 (especially with the Comp Pkg) are great performance machines...period.

Not every car has to be the size of a Miata to be fun...
Appreciate 2
      03-10-2016, 08:14 PM   #16
jcocke
Enlisted Member
20
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: Future M2
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDSM View Post

People dropping thousands $$$$ on plastic parts or exhausts and for that same price, you can do participate in one of these. If you like cars and driving, you need to experience one of these performance schools at least once.
Amen to that....its been my experience that folks that pour money into that stuff, their egos don't allow them hit the race track...in anything. And when they do, they are the first ones to blame the car for why they suck, and continue to pump more money into their cars to make them "better" it's a vicious cycle...

Last edited by jcocke; 03-11-2016 at 07:13 AM..
Appreciate 1
      03-10-2016, 08:17 PM   #17
W///
Lieutenant General
W///'s Avatar
7436
Rep
12,293
Posts

Drives: F82GTS, E36/E92M3, Z4M
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SC

iTrader: (13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by csbear View Post
Thanks for the write up! And I also agree that the some of the M3/M4 bashing is just hater-ade. For example, publications (or should I say, tabloids) like Jalopnik love to bash on cars that are of the BMW M ilk, but it's ok to love American muscle because it's more affordable. That way they have click-bait title links (see: "The Porsche 911R Is Bullshit Compared To The Corvette Grand Sport"), and their targeted reader demographic can all agree in unison.

The M2 is getting the current love, but the M3/M4 (especially with the Comp Pkg) are great performance machines...period.

Not every car has to be the size of a Miata to be fun...
I literally never go to Jalopnik. Can't take anything these supposed car guys write
Appreciate 1
      03-10-2016, 08:42 PM   #18
Benzima
Colonel
Benzima's Avatar
1322
Rep
2,924
Posts

Drives: 2017 BMW M2
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Montreal, CANADA

iTrader: (0)

Great review!
Appreciate 1
      03-11-2016, 08:51 AM   #19
LDSM
Captain
LDSM's Avatar
United_States
343
Rep
686
Posts

Drives: ...
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: ...

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVU View Post
Really nice write up LDSM.
Up until this latest round of reviews this week, I've been pretty set on getting the M Perf suspension and possibly M Perf exhaust. I think I'm going to save my money for tires, brake pads, the 2-day M school, and a handful of HPDEs.
Sounds like a good plan.
If you can, I would suggest doing the m school first. I think once you drive a car like the M2 to it's limits, you'll quickly find the car is much, much, more capable than the driver. These M cars are well equipped, I would really hold off on most upgrades and enjoy the car stock for a while before changing anything.
Appreciate 0
      03-11-2016, 04:05 PM   #20
ajvdh
Second Lieutenant
United_States
217
Rep
209
Posts

Drives: 2016 M2
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcocke View Post
Amen to that....its been my experience that folks that pour money into that stuff, their egos don't allow them hit the race track...in anything. And when they do, they are the first ones to blame the car for why they suck, and continue to pump more money into their cars to make them "better" it's a vicious cycle...
You mean like this guy:


That is how I drive. Flat out.
Appreciate 0
      03-11-2016, 09:28 PM   #21
RocketBoots
Colonel
RocketBoots's Avatar
United_States
1860
Rep
2,104
Posts

Drives: Horse Drawn Carriage
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the honest review. You probably represent a whole helluva a lot more of the demographic for this car than any "professional" reviewer. I put about 100 times more cred to what you said than any auto-journalist. I've never driven the M2, but have driven the M3/4, and M235. Your views pretty much align with mine. M4 vs M235 is night and day. M235 feels much more like a 335 than any M3. I'm so glad to hear the M2 feels very different than the M235. My biggest fear was that the M2 was going to be closer to the M235 than the M4. It's really difficult to tell from professional reviews because they all loved the M235 as well.

I really don't know what to make of most of the auto journalists these days, especially British ones. The nicest thing I can say probably is that they are inconsistent, and appear to have hidden agendas. I mean, from their comments, you'd think the M4 is a 1980's Cadillac. Sure the M4's big, but it FEELS and drives much smaller than it is. Planted, nimble, precise. M2 sounds to be a little less planted, a little more nimble, just as precise. It's kind of hillarious, the dumbasses that blasted the M3 for its turbo motor, it's EPS, tail happy tendencies all of a sudden love it in the M2?! Get real. Have they not realized that many of the guys that are very interested in the M2 came from M3's of old? I, for one, am glad to hear the M2 hums a very similar tune to the new M3. BMW did so many things right with the M3, it would be silly not to stay a similar course for the M2.
Appreciate 1
      03-11-2016, 11:40 PM   #22
BruceM
Major
983
Rep
1,153
Posts

Drives: '17 6MT MG M2,930,Jag XKR 5.0
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketBoots View Post
Have they not realized that many of the guys that are very interested in the M2 came from M3's of old? .
This is exactly right. I want an M2 because it seems to be the closest Bimmer available to my E36 M3, which I had tweaked to perfection, at least for me. Back to the future....
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:56 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST