[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by jbse39

Anyone know why Quaker State 5w40 Euro Synthetic (Did Ultimate Durability change label?) is not available in the US in 5Qt jugs? That was such a great buy at Walmart for barely $20 for 5 qt jug but I haven't been able to find them in 2-3 months.

Yeah, even the huge drums seem to be out of stock. It's too bad. Maybe it'll come back at some point

[M1500Z]

Just got my UOA back from Blackstone today. This is the first time using the Motul 8100 X-cess Gen 2 5w40. This car mostly gets driven to the track, tracked, and then back home. If I wasn't under warranty, I'd probably switch between this oil and 300V for track usage... but I am under warranty (for a while at that).

Details about this particular usage

• 3 days on track
• All days on track had ambient temps 85-90°F
• ~500 miles were driving to a track 3.5 hrs away (highway mileage)

[vrooooom]

So it’s new oil to start with? And after the drive there and back plus the actual 3 days of track…. You get that result which is still good. How much oil life is there left?

[PackPride85]

Sheared down to a 5w-30.

[F87source]

Yeah kind of sketchy, PPE is known to be thin from the start but I've never seen PPE lose that much viscosity even with E85 use or heavy track use. Maybe PPE and it's GTL base stock is better despite slightly lower zinc, PPE does have a really robust additive pack.

[vrooooom]

so with that result, time to change the oil? Or would that be good for daily driving still but not another set of track time?

[edycol]

I don't like that KV100. Other than that it is really good report.
Flash point is still strong, so it is not fuel dilution that sheared down oil but mechanical shearing.
What stands out is excellent oxidation control of this oil. Obviously it is Group III oil.
I am wondering how PPE 5W40 would do or Valvoline European Vehicle 5W40?
If you try other oils and they shear down as much, consider heavier, more track specific stuff like Motul Sport 5W40 or Redline 5W40.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by vrooooom

so with that result, time to change the oil? Or would that be good for daily driving still but not another set of track time?

Still OK for DD.
Strong TBN and low oxidation.

[vrooooom]

Excuse my ignorance, but how does the 300V going to void the BMW warranty but this one does not? Although I did read the note on the 8100 product page which had a sentence on warranty. Didn’t think there are oils that would void the warranty. The 300V is a better oil? But is not BMW LL-01? Is that it?

[edycol]

Originally Posted by vrooooom

Excuse my ignorance, but how does the 300V going to void the BMW warranty but this one does not? Although I did read the note on the 8100 product page which had a sentence on warranty. Didn't think there are oils that would void the warranty. The 300V is a better oil? But is not BMW LL-01? Is that it?

X-Cess is LL01 approved.
300V is not approved for anything. It doesn't even have API certification.
Reason is that 300V is genuine race oil. It works best when oil temperatures are extremely high as additives specific to race oils work best at high temperatures.
However, those additives are not best solution for daily driven cars. Many owners rarely reach operating oil temperature, let alone blast their car all day close to redline. You need different additives, different base stocks (less oxidation, more solubility). BMW sells cars to regular people and will warrant only if approved oils are used.
They know if someone is racing they will not care for warranty and they will know what oil to use.
That is why Motul has Sport line up. For people that go to track a lot but also daily drive same vehicle. Better oxidation control, additives more geared toward daily driving.
But, if one is just occasionally go to track, street oils are best solution. They still have a lot if additives that will easily deal with track. Also, Porsche A40 approved oils are track capable. That approval has specific track test (8hrs Nurburgring simulation).

[M1500Z]

Originally Posted by vrooooom

So it’s new oil to start with? And after the drive there and back plus the actual 3 days of track…. You get that result which is still good. How much oil life is there left?

Correct, new oil, 3 hot days on track and bit of driving and then changed.

Originally Posted by PackPride85

Sheared down to a 5w-30.

Originally Posted by F87source

Yeah kind of sketchy, PPE is known to be thin from the start but I've never seen PPE lose that much viscosity even with E85 use or heavy track use. Maybe PPE and it's GTL base stock is better despite slightly lower zinc, PPE does have a really robust additive pack.

Originally Posted by edycol

I don't like that KV100. Other than that it is really good report.
Flash point is still strong, so it is not fuel dilution that sheared down oil but mechanical shearing.
What stands out is excellent oxidation control of this oil. Obviously it is Group III oil.
I am wondering how PPE 5W40 would do or Valvoline European Vehicle 5W40?
If you try other oils and they shear down as much, consider heavier, more track specific stuff like Motul Sport 5W40 or Redline 5W40.

I'm disappointed to hear this regarding this oil—was hoping it would be ok for 2 weekends on track (I typically do weekends, so 4 days). This is a 100% stock S55 as well. What would cause the oil to mechanically shear down like that? Could it have been heat? The Aim data from the hottest session (of the hottest day) that oil was subjected to is below. Average ambient temp for this session was 95ºF.

I believe peak temp was like 248—prob extremely briefly as the histogram doesn't even represent anything over 245°F. I have another sample I'm about to send in that has 2 days at COTA (1 of which was in the cold rain so I doubt it put much energy into the oil). Both days saw peak ambient temps over 40°F cooler so it'll be interesting to compare the two samples.

Originally Posted by edycol

X-Cess is LL01 approved.
300V is not approved for anything. It doesn't even have API certification.
Reason is that 300V is genuine race oil. It works best when oil temperatures are extremely high as additives specific to race oils work best at high temperatures.
However, those additives are not best solution for daily driven cars. Many owners rarely reach operating oil temperature, let alone blast their car all day close to redline. You need different additives, different base stocks (less oxidation, more solubility). BMW sells cars to regular people and will warrant only if approved oils are used.
They know if someone is racing they will not care for warranty and they will know what oil to use.
That is why Motul has Sport line up. For people that go to track a lot but also daily drive same vehicle. Better oxidation control, additives more geared toward daily driving.
But, if one is just occasionally go to track, street oils are best solution. They still have a lot if additives that will easily deal with track. Also, Porsche A40 approved oils are track capable. That approval has specific track test (8hrs Nurburgring simulation).

I guess I could try Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w40 next. I just had the annual required service done so the car is putting around on the BMW dealer oil—I'll never track on that oil again if I can avoid it. I believe you, edycol mentioned the Motul Sport being an older oil than the X-cess Gen 2, and I also don't believe it's LL01. There just aren't a lot of choices in the LL01 category and I'm concerned that if something were to go wrong and they sampled 300V it would be an excuse to deny a warranty claim. Is 300V acceptable to use in cars with catalysts? Perhaps I could use 300V during the hotter months and then X-cess Gen 2.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

Correct, new oil, 3 hot days on track and bit of driving and then changed.

I'm disappointed to hear this regarding this oil—was hoping it would be ok for 2 weekends on track (I typically do weekends, so 4 days). This is a 100% stock S55 as well. What would cause the oil to mechanically shear down like that? Could it have been heat? The Aim data from the hottest session (of the hottest day) that oil was subjected to is below. Average ambient temp for this session was 95ºF.

I believe peak temp was like 248—prob extremely briefly as the histogram doesn't even represent anything over 245°F. I have another sample I'm about to send in that has 2 days at COTA (1 of which was in the cold rain so I doubt it put much energy into the oil). Both days saw peak ambient temps over 40°F cooler so it'll be interesting to compare the two samples.

[IMG]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0[/IMG]

I guess I could try Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w40 next. I just had the annual required service done so the car is putting around on the BMW dealer oil—I'll never track on that oil again if I can avoid it. I believe you, edycol mentioned the Motul Sport being an older oil than the X-cess Gen 2, and I also don't believe it's LL01. There just aren't a lot of choices in the LL01 category and I'm concerned that if something were to go wrong and they sampled 300V it would be an excuse to deny a warranty claim. Is 300V acceptable to use in cars with catalysts? Perhaps I could use 300V during the hotter months and then X-cess Gen 2.

I would stick to LL01 under warranty. It is better to change it more often than deal with warranty issues.
PPE will do good. PPE is thin, BUT, since it is GTL HTHS is strong in 3.8 range. Your oil temperature you said is 248 on track? That is NOTHING!!! You could basically run XW30 with strong HTHS (I wouldn't, just saying).
You can try Valvoline European Vehicle 5W40. It has also strong additive package and HTHS of 3.7.
You can go maybe Ravenol 5W40 if looking more "exotic " oil.
As for shearing, the engine is beating up oil. High revolutions, turbos, vanos etc. Some oils do really good in one engine but not so good in another.

https://www.blauparts.com/ravenol-mo...-5w-40-5l.html

[edycol]

Also, take into consideration that ambient temperature is irrelevant. Altitude is one that matters. Higher altitude less heat exchange. Running at track at 95 degrees below 2,000ft is much easier than running here in CO at HPR at 5,000ft and 60 degrees.

[M1500Z]

Originally Posted by edycol

I would stick to LL01 under warranty. It is better to change it more often than deal with warranty issues.
PPE will do good. PPE is thin, BUT, since it is GTL HTHS is strong in 3.8 range. Your oil temperature you said is 248 on track? That is NOTHING!!! You could basically run XW30 with strong HTHS (I wouldn't, just saying).
You can try Valvoline European Vehicle 5W40. It has also strong additive package and HTHS of 3.7.
You can go maybe Ravenol 5W40 if looking more "exotic " oil.
As for shearing, the engine is beating up oil. High revolutions, turbos, vanos etc. Some oils do really good in one engine but not so good in another.

https://www.blauparts.com/ravenol-mo...-5w-40-5l.html

I spoke with Blackstone about my report and they basically said the same thing—they tend to see mechanical shearing in turbo engines. They weren't very concerned about the shearing and lower KV100. This additional sample I'll send in should provide a little more info into the longevity of the Motul X-cess Gen 2.

I didn't know if my oil temps were anything exceptional or not, just thought I'd point it out. I didn't think it was all that high though and S55 is known for having excellent cooling—it's the reason I swapped from M2 to M2 Comp.

That Ravenol looks interesting. I could run it for a weekend and the Pennzoil another weekend and see. What's the downside of the PPE (if any?) If I recall, you seem to prefer Motul to the PPE.

Originally Posted by edycol

Also, take into consideration that ambient temperature is irrelevant. Altitude is one that matters. Higher altitude less heat exchange. Running at track at 95 degrees below 2,000ft is much easier than running here in CO at HPR at 5,000ft and 60 degrees.

Yeah, you've mentioned that before and I'd forgotten about it. As much as I enjoy snowboarding, I think I'll continue to live at low altitude .

[DriftKr6l]

Found this analysis of Pennzoil Euro 5W-40 after track day in another thread, can compare to Motul, I think it looks better.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by DriftKr6l

Found this analysis of Pennzoil Euro 5W-40 after track day in another thread, can compare to Motul, I think it looks better.

This is the old PPE as well, the new one should be better since it was the one that moved to a formulation with an hths of 3.8, also has less calcium, more magnesium, more zinc (near 1k ppm), more phosphorus, more boron, more moly (even more than liquimoly' molygen oil which is supposed to be moly heavy) etc. This oil should perform even better overall.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

I spoke with Blackstone about my report and they basically said the same thing—they tend to see mechanical shearing in turbo engines. They weren't very concerned about the shearing and lower KV100. This additional sample I'll send in should provide a little more info into the longevity of the Motul X-cess Gen 2.

I didn't know if my oil temps were anything exceptional or not, just thought I'd point it out. I didn't think it was all that high though and S55 is known for having excellent cooling—it's the reason I swapped from M2 to M2 Comp.

That Ravenol looks interesting. I could run it for a weekend and the Pennzoil another weekend and see. What's the downside of the PPE (if any?) If I recall, you seem to prefer Motul to the PPE.

Yeah, you've mentioned that before and I'd forgotten about it. As much as I enjoy snowboarding, I think I'll continue to live at low altitude .

Oil definitely took beating from the engine. Though, I must say oxidation control and TBN retention are excellent.
For DD the leftover KV100 is good. But I am bit skeptical bcs. oil pressure going into thin 30 territory after so many miles.
Try PPE. PPE is mostly GTL and Group III. It is thin, but HTHS is 3.8 territory and some pds had it at 3.88. I would definitely try it. I used it once on track but never did UOA.
Shell put all its chips into GTL although they are known to drop in some PAO.
That being said, it crossed my mind that if you can get some old stock of BMW TPT 0W40 M oil, get it. That stuff is ridiculously robust. GTL and PAO combination specifically made for BMW by SOPUS. I think BMW Canada still has it in stock.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by edycol

Oil definitely took beating from the engine. Though, I must say oxidation control and TBN retention are excellent.
For DD the leftover KV100 is good. But I am bit skeptical bcs. oil pressure going into thin 30 territory after so many miles.
Try PPE. PPE is mostly GTL and Group III. It is thin, but HTHS is 3.8 territory and some pds had it at 3.88. I would definitely try it. I used it once on track but never did UOA.
Shell put all its chips into GTL although they are known to drop in some PAO.
That being said, it crossed my mind that if you can get some old stock of BMW TPT 0W40 M oil, get it. That stuff is ridiculously robust. GTL and PAO combination specifically made for BMW by SOPUS. I think BMW Canada still has it in stock.

Yup they had the old ///M power 0w40 oil at my dealer in 1L jugs, really expensive though so idk if it's worth it.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by F87source

Yup they had the old ///M power 0w40 oil at my dealer in 1L jugs, really expensive though so idk if it's worth it.

Yeah, if it's big difference then no.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by edycol

Yeah, if it's big difference then no.

Does shell not have a similar 0W40 formulation for themselves maybe under their helix banner? All I know is they have their PPE 0W40 but that isn't as good as their 5W40.

[F87source]

BTW I think shell improved PPE 5w40 alot, they probably either used more GTL or added some PAO because pour point iirc dropped from the low mins 20's to minus 30's to -40C
https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/...2b4b5dbce0.pdf


Here's an old TDS showing the 3.88 HTHS btw: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/for...40-pdf.363257/

[edycol]

Originally Posted by F87source

Does shell not have a similar 0W40 formulation for themselves maybe under their helix banner? All I know is they have their PPE 0W40 but that isn't as good as their 5W40.

TPT 0W40 M is specifically made for BMW. Lot's of PAO, -52c pour point, HTHS around 3.9 and Noack as far as I remember in 7% value range. It us really good stuff.