[DrKevM5]

Being the track rat that I am, I've always wanted to add more aero on my car. Rear wings are fantastic for the additional downforce, but I've always been leery about the esthetics on my car as I often drive it on the street. Some applications look borderline cartoonish. The thought of drilling holes in my trunk lid, and the resultant point of no return if I hated the look always made me take a step back. I found this fantastic solution that offered the best of both worlds! I can finally mount that APR "big wang" with no remorse! https://trackwing.com

[mcvaughan]

Originally Posted by DrKevM5

Being the track rat that I am, I've always wanted to add more aero on my car. Rear wings are fantastic for the additional downforce, but I've always been leery about the esthetics on my car as I often drive it on the street. Some applications look borderline cartoonish. The thought of drilling holes in my trunk lid, and the resultant point of no return if I hated the look always made me take a step back. I found this fantastic solution that offered the best of both worlds! I can finally mount that APR "big wang" with no remorse! https://trackwing.com

Very interesting!

[DRLane]

Neat concept but I could see this being disallowed at tracks. I wouldn't want to be behind a car with this…

I'd suggest:
Get a second trunk;
pull the wing off the uprights;
or use a bracket to mount the upright and therefore the whole wing and upright can be removable.

[DrKevM5]

I'm thinking the added tethers may satisfy the stewards

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by DrKevM5

I'm thinking the added tethers may satisfy the stewards

Yeah but think of the damage you'd do to even your own car with a wing and uprights flopping around from 140 mph

[Steveng01]

Just drill your trunk for a proper installation and worry about reversing back to stock when you sell the car. Nothing can not be reversed, except for carbon roof.

[bimmerboyE92]

Cool product, but I feel a used trunk lid to drill holes in is slightly less expensive while you keep your pristine one in storage.

[DrKevM5]

Meh. Pain in the ass swapping lids. This is plug and play. 60 sec. installation. We'll see how it goes.

[AWC-F87]

Really cool find!

The wing I personally dig is the aftermarket wing that is active!

[AWC-F87]

This guy! Super bad ass concept.

https://www.victorracing.com/shop

[F87source]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Neat concept but I could see this being disallowed at tracks. I wouldn't want to be behind a car with this…

I'd suggest:
Get a second trunk;
pull the wing off the uprights;
or use a bracket to mount the upright and therefore the whole wing and upright can be removable.

+1

You will most likely not pass track inspection, also if it fails on track you are going to be in deep trouble if you damage someone's car and if they crash and get injured probably not a good thing.

[Megator]

Originally Posted by F87source

+1

You will most likely not pass track inspection, also if it fails on track you are going to be in deep trouble if you damage someone's car and if they crash and get injured probably not a good thing.

Does the concept of one knowingly participating in a dangerous endeavour not nullify your recourse in a crash/accident on track?

That's how it is over here in the EU. You willingly participate in a dangerous activity and therefore accept the risk of things going wrong even if it's not your fault.

A judge would throw out a case like this as an accident and risk of participating. Also all the waivers put the responsibility on you for damages and not the organisation or other participants.

[EDWYER]

No thanks on those circles.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by Megator

Does the concept of one knowingly participating in a dangerous endeavour not nullify your recourse in a crash/accident on track?

That's how it is over here in the EU. You willingly participate in a dangerous activity and therefore accept the risk of things going wrong even if it's not your fault.

A judge would throw out a case like this as an accident and risk of participating. Also all the waivers put the responsibility on you for damages and not the organisation or other participants.

Most have it set up where each owner/driver is responsible for themselves despite if they were at fault or someone else was. Not 100% that you won't get dragged through the system though with how things go over here sometimes.

That being said if someone is running a suction cup wing and it flies off - then they deserve to get smacked in the head a couple of times with said wing.

Do really like the concept though - a removable wing system is something been playing with for awhile too. Have a wing on my OG M2 - doesn't see the street much anymore but when it did Just no good way of getting around either holes in the trunk or slots cut out for the uprights unless you do something like this. Probably works great just not sure I would be comfortable trying it.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Megator

Does the concept of one knowingly participating in a dangerous endeavour not nullify your recourse in a crash/accident on track?

That's how it is over here in the EU. You willingly participate in a dangerous activity and therefore accept the risk of things going wrong even if it's not your fault.

A judge would throw out a case like this as an accident and risk of participating. Also all the waivers put the responsibility on you for damages and not the organisation or other participants.

Depends on the track and circumstances I suppose, I never crashed and always had track insurance so I never really looked too deep into it. From what I have heard this is what I remember:

For advanced sessions where passing is allowed then most of the time it's all on you.


For no passing sessions if you cause the accident you may have to cover the other drivers deductible (everyone may be required to have track insurance depending on the track or session but not always) or be liable for damages. This was done at one of the tracks I frequented because I saw the open sessions dominated by people bringing absolute crap boxes that were barely able to pass inspection and kept causing accidents from being too agressive and or having a car not able to handle track abuse and just fail. But mostly due to idiot drivers. But again on some tracks this may not be clearly explained.


And we have the fully open tracks here too of course which I believe dominate, and those tracks like og shark and yourself have pointed out is all liabilities are wavied. I'm thinking this is the majority of tracks. But if you do something stupid you probably can still be held responsible.


Oh I forgot- there are new tracks that have life time member ships. If you have diamond tier (the pass itself is like $100k + yearly fees like some luxury golf courses/clubs) you get insurance included. Lol... You also get private track days too.


Not sure how it would play out in court but it would depend on your waviers.



But that wing likely won't pass inspection.

[Megator]

Originally Posted by F87source

Depends on the track and circumstances I suppose, I never crashed and always had track insurance so I never really looked too deep into it. From what I have heard this is what I remember:

For advanced sessions where passing is allowed then most of the time it's all on you.


For no passing sessions if you cause the accident you may have to cover the other drivers deductible (everyone may be required to have track insurance depending on the track or session but not always) or be liable for damages. This was done at one of the tracks I frequented because I saw the open sessions dominated by people bringing absolute crap boxes that were barely able to pass inspection and kept causing accidents from being too agressive and having a car not able to handle track abuse. But again on some tracks this may not be clearly explained.



Not sure how it would play out in court but it would depend on your waviers.



But that wing likely won't pass inspection.

I wish track insurance was affordable here, often times it's more expensive than the event itself.

Yeah I stopped going with one organisation because their format attracted a bunch of try hard idiots that drove like they were sim racing, dive bombing people, and never getting black flagged…

On topic, this gives me a bad feeling but engineering wise it is "sound".

The forces on the wing are mainly into the trunk, only the weight (forces in the horizontal plane due to the Gs) of the wing + any drag need to be carried by the suction cups.

Like any fastener, a suction cup can be dimensioned to be strong enough for the loads imparted on it. Suction cups with built in vacuum pumps are used to carry huge glass sheets for example. I have worked with ones similar to the ones on that wing and can assure you they can easily have 100kg hanging off of the suction.

So far so good right?

Well the Achilles heel of suction is the sudden loss of suction, which can come at any moment and totally unannounced.

For example heat, if you pull a vacuum when it's cool and cloudy, it is possible that as the day heats up the trapped air will expand reducing the vacuum and hold of the wing.

Or a panel flexing and that causing a loss of vacuum. Doesn't need to be at once, it could be gradual.

Or simply time, no seal is perfect and with enough time the suction will break.

So it comes down to the user. You need them to make sure to use the suction cup properly (clean scratch free surface + good care of the cups + a bit of spit or the like) and to keep an eye on it throughout the day possibly pumping the vacuum every 20-30min.

Neat idea but to me the risk + hassle seems too great to be worth it.

EDIT:

This incident made me stop going with that one organization, that was in the advanced group lol.

@F87source not sure where you are in Canada but that one trackday at Motorsports Park in Toronto last year was the most bizar thing I saw. People driving like idiots, crashing, and having fist fights about it afterwards...WTF

https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/commen...orsports_park/

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Megator

I wish track insurance was affordable here, often times it's more expensive than the event itself.

Yeah I stopped going with one organisation because their format attracted a bunch of try hard idiots that drove like they were sim racing, dive bombing people, and never getting black flagged…

On topic, this gives me a bad feeling but engineering wise it is "sound".

The forces on the wing are mainly into the trunk, only the weight (forces in the horizontal plane due to the Gs) of the wing + any drag need to be carried by the suction cups.

Like any fastener, a suction cup can be dimensioned to be strong enough for the loads imparted on it. Suction cups with built in vacuum pumps are used to carry huge glass sheets for example. I have worked with ones similar to the ones on that wing and can assure you they can easily have 100kg hanging off of the suction.

So far so good right?

Well the Achilles heel of suction is the sudden loss of suction, which can come at any moment and totally unannounced.

For example heat, if you pull a vacuum when it's cool and cloudy, it is possible that as the day heats up the trapped air will expand reducing the vacuum and hold of the wing.

Or a panel flexing and that causing a loss of vacuum. Doesn't need to be at once, it could be gradual.

Or simply time, no seal is perfect and with enough time the suction will break.

So it comes down to the user. You need them to make sure to use the suction cup properly (clean scratch free surface + good care of the cups + a bit of spit or the like) and to keep an eye on it throughout the day possibly pumping the vacuum every 20-30min.

Neat idea but to me the risk + hassle seems too great to be worth it.

EDIT:

This incident made me stop going with that one organization, that was in the advanced group lol.

@F87source not sure where you are in Canada but that one trackday at Motorsports Park in Toronto last year was the most bizar thing I saw. People driving like idiots, crashing, and having fist fights about it afterwards...WTF

https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/commen...orsports_park/

Yeah track insurance is really expensive here too, but since we're so close to the us we can purchase track insurance there that covers Canada too. $4k/year unlimited track days on approved tracks.


Yeah I was thinking about what happens if the trunk flexed or if the wax or any debris prevented suction cup sealing perfectly, then you have a massive wing flying off at the track.



Yeah I saw that from Toronto motorsports park or Canadian tire motor sports park. I used to track there alot so I'm not surprised stuff like that is happening. Because you have guys in McLarens and Lamborghinis share a track with dudes in $500 rusty mx5's who don't give a crap about their cars sending it down every turn and trying to slip stream by tail gating super close at every possible opportunity thinking it's f1....


Then when accidents inevitably happen you have those uninsured don't care if their cars get totaled teenage thugs swinging for the hills against the millionaires. Btw the deductable for an expensive car can be 25% of it's insured value so it's a fricken huge chunk of change when it's a lambo. Good thing tracks don't let motor cycles track at the same time as cars anymore, that used to be a sh!t show when people think they can ride like it's moto gp vs. idiots who drive like it's f1. Things like that make me almost not want to track and prefer to do time attack, auto x and advanced lapping.


Oh yeah and I forgot to say some tracks here in Canada have an untimed policy trying to make it fit within street insurance rules so your street insurance cannot deny coverage. This is because if it's timed it's considered competition and your street insurance cannot/will not cover it. But if it's untimed then technically it's a high performance driving event and insurance cannot be denyed as demonstrated by the case that went to the supreme court. But I think insurance policys may have changed to close this loop hole, but anyways these classes still happen and in the even of a crash it's street rules aka exchanging insurance. And of course when both party's get declined there will inevitably be a legal fight.

[NISFAN]

Surely if you are running an effective rear wing, you would need a large splitter on the front to balance DF?
If you're fitting a massive splitter, you're going to have to put up with the hassle of removing the aero track pack bolt on. Which means taking off a rear boot/trunk would be not much extra hassle.

Those suction cups will most definitely damage the metal surface you put it on. So you're trashing a good part anyway.

Big wing creates lift on front axle.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Surely if you are running an effective rear wing, you would need a large splitter on the front to balance DF?
If you're fitting a massive splitter, you're going to have to put up with the hassle of removing the aero track pack bolt on. Which means taking off a rear boot/trunk would be not much extra hassle.

Those suction cups will most definitely damage the metal surface you put it on. So you're trashing a good part anyway.

Big wing creates lift on front axle.

+1


If you don't have good front aero you'll get huge under steer as the front lifts or gets less traction in general vs. the rear.


A tiny lip isn't good enough either you'll need like a giant plank of a front lip + real canards.

[Megator]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Surely if you are running an effective rear wing, you would need a large splitter on the front to balance DF?
If you're fitting a massive splitter, you're going to have to put up with the hassle of removing the aero track pack bolt on. Which means taking off a rear boot/trunk would be not much extra hassle.

Those suction cups will most definitely damage the metal surface you put it on. So you're trashing a good part anyway.

Big wing creates lift on front axle.

Yes and no, depends on how big a wing you put at the back.

The car is forward weight biased anyways so you need a really really big wing before you need a moderate to large front splitter.

Don't think this product is for those guys.

This is a bit of a solution to a problem no one has…