[z19930612]

I haven't visit bimmerpost for a long time, recently I am digging in how to use esys to change the steering coding on my M2C, seen many people posting very useful information here so I decide to also share some of my thought about the the tire.

When M2C first came out my friend bought one, I quickly hop in and done some usual evaluation with the car, I found with the OE pss* tire, the steering has a big dead zone on center, also the roll happens way too quick for a performance car, and when drifting, the tire has a terrible rubberband feeling on grip limit making recovery bit edgy(didn't see Chris Harris point this out in his review tho), so I was really disappointed.

Last year in October, I went to visit my friend and had the chance to drive his car again, but as soon as I turned the steering wheel, I feel the steering is much more rigid and solid even at low speed, then I step out of the car and realized he changed the tire, I was very confused where did these new cup2s came from, as they have * on them indicating they are the OE tire from BMW(later I did some research and found out that these are the tires came with M2CS). I got excited and did another evaluation with his car(nothing else is changed on the car except the tires), My Gosh this is how I imagine a proper modern BMW M to feel like.

The steering response is racing car sharp, also the on-center deadness is totally removed, roll is now much more supportive and linear with yaw, and the clarity on the grip limit is unbelievable, now I can recenter the steering after drifting very very precisely without any overshoot or wobble, also the change of direction when doing slalom on Mexico street is giving me goose bump, it also has better damping and makes the car feels more complaint to the road surface. it is a way nicer car to drive compare to the M2C fitted with OE pss*

I ended up buying a M2C just because of the M2C&Cup2C tire package.(and sold my 1M, if anyone interested in why, I will start another thread as a newbee and tell the story in another section of the forum)

After some month I also discovered few downside tho.

- Tire noise is bottom line acceptable, also you feel more particle and texture from the road, I know it's a good thing on the back road but a bad thing for DD, in terms of NVH and comfort, way worse than PSS, even much worse than old Cup2, but I personally can live with it.

- You have to reach a good level of tire temp, otherwise it has less grip than PSS, old Cup2 does a better job putting power to the ground for DD,for this Cup2C you really have to drive hard before you feel any grip(At least above 40Deg C I guess), but in other words it's convenient for everyday hooliganism.

- Bad at wet, but again, if you can control it, it's more fun to enjoy 4th gear sideway stuff on the rainy day, no way you can do that with PS4S.

I hope this information is useful for anyone who's looking forward to make their M2C more agile and exciting to drive and excuse for my English

[eye.surgeon]

less than ideal tire choice for street driving. I had them on my GT4, they are the go-to track tire. Be prepared for a lot of road rash on your lower body panels running Cup 2s as they fling every pebble on the road onto the car because they're so sticky.

[Rk-d]

Interesting review. One of my few complaints of this car is the lack of solidity and directness in the steering. I have cup2/763m coming in and will be interested to see if my experience matches yours.

[z19930612]

Originally Posted by Rk-d

Interesting review. One of my few complaints of this car is the lack of solidity and directness in the steering. I have cup2/763m coming in and will be interested to see if my experience matches yours.

There are two versions of cup2s, they both come in 245 35 19 and 265 35 19, old one is called cup2 and I believe they come with E92 M3 ZCP, new one is called cup2 connect(although it doesn't say connect on the sidewall) which came from M2CS.

Visually the biggest difference is the sidewall pattern and font, I have seen many 763Ms selling as a tire&rim package that come with old version Cup2 , not sure why. I have the old Cup2 photo attached, just be aware.

[JustDrifting]

Originally Posted by z19930612

There are two versions of cup2s, they both come in 245 35 19 and 265 35 19, old one is called cup2 and I believe they come with E92 M3 ZCP, new one is called cup2 connect(although it doesn't say connect on the sidewall) which came from M2CS.

Visually the biggest difference is the sidewall pattern and font, I have seen many 763Ms selling as a tire&rim package that come with old version Cup2 , not sure why. I have the old Cup2 photo attached, just be aware.

I'm pretty certain the C2 and C2Connect are the same rubber, only one has the sensor connector option (transponder for each tyre and receiver sold separately) that can be installed (optional).

I have C2C on my 763s (788 with PSS). The low temp (10-12C range) on the C2C means quick grip loss - easy to stick the rear out / swing it round on junction exits but very progressive at higher speeds. PSS at similar temps results in a little more snappy transition.

Agree on the C2 stickier rubber meaning more fling of gravel / stones on street, but a trade off given on warmer days the better feedback and ultimately grip on the C2C (vs PSS).

Even in torrential downpours the C2C does a decent job at shifting water, though you wouldn't want to be pressing on….

I had Michelin PS2 on my 997 Carrera S - similar to the PSS in grip levels; treets ahead of the Pirelli PZero alternative 'n' rated tyres.

The C2C are getting close to thread bare after 6,000 miles - will likely replace them with PS4s as a balance of decent grip and wet weather (without the low temp grip loss and the C2C picking up so much gravel/stones).

[Rk-d]

Originally Posted by z19930612

There are two versions of cup2s, they both come in 245 35 19 and 265 35 19, old one is called cup2 and I believe they come with E92 M3 ZCP, new one is called cup2 connect(although it doesn't say connect on the sidewall) which came from M2CS.

Visually the biggest difference is the sidewall pattern and font, I have seen many 763Ms selling as a tire&rim package that come with old version Cup2 , not sure why. I have the old Cup2 photo attached, just be aware.

I ordered the complete package from one of the forum sponsors - supposed to be Cup 2 Connect.

I’m curious what tire pressures you’re running?

[Ratcher]

Cup 2 and Cup 2 Connect have exactly the same rubber. I have actually called Michelin myself to clarify this since there's a lot of wrong information online (this thread also contributes to this).

[z19930612]

Originally Posted by Ratcher

Cup 2 and Cup 2 Connect have exactly the same rubber. I have actually called Michelin myself to clarify this since there's a lot of wrong information online (this thread also contributes to this).

But there are also two versions of Cup2 Connect, one with old sidewall design that has 200tw and one with new sidewall design with 240tw. For the new 240tw Cup2 Connect Michelin officially stated that the lap time would be quicker, also the structure and the rubber is different.

The answer you received from Michelin is more likely related to those early 200tw Cup2 Connect that allow you to install a sensor but has no difference performance wise (photo added).

Also even under the same Cup2 name, OE spec tire have different compound and structure vs aftermarket ones, for example if you try MO(Mercedes spec) Cup2, *(BMW spec) Cup2 and standard(Michelin spec with no marking) Cup2 on the same car, the feeling will be different.

The PSS, Cup2(tw200) and Cup2 Connect(tw 240) I mentioned in my thread are all BMW OE tires with star * mark on them.

[z19930612]

Originally Posted by Rk-d

I ordered the complete package from one of the forum sponsors - supposed to be Cup 2 Connect.

I’m curious what tire pressures you’re running?

As suggested by RDC

[z19930612]

Originally Posted by JustDrifting

I'm pretty certain the C2 and C2Connect are the same rubber, only one has the sensor connector option (transponder for each tyre and receiver sold separately) that can be installed (optional).

I have C2C on my 763s (788 with PSS). The low temp (10-12C range) on the C2C means quick grip loss - easy to stick the rear out / swing it round on junction exits but very progressive at higher speeds. PSS at similar temps results in a little more snappy transition.

Agree on the C2 stickier rubber meaning more fling of gravel / stones on street, but a trade off given on warmer days the better feedback and ultimately grip on the C2C (vs PSS).

Even in torrential downpours the C2C does a decent job at shifting water, though you wouldn't want to be pressing on….

I had Michelin PS2 on my 997 Carrera S - similar to the PSS in grip levels; treets ahead of the Pirelli PZero alternative 'n' rated tyres.

The C2C are getting close to thread bare after 6,000 miles - will likely replace them with PS4s as a balance of decent grip and wet weather (without the low temp grip loss and the C2C picking up so much gravel/stones).

Here is a piece of information from Michelin website saying a lot of new stuff going into the tw240 cup2 Connect :

https://www.michelinman.com/auto/tir...port-cup-2-240

[Ratcher]

Yea they can have different compound depending on the OEM marking but regardless of this the Connect is always the same compound for a given type of tire.

[Karmic Man]

“4th gear sideway stuff on the rainy day” at a time with busy oncoming traffic and a truck behind you? No thanks…

[Wakka]

I found this article extremely helpful in navigating the extensive list of different cup 2's:

https://motoiq.com/not-all-michelin-...ated-the-same/

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by Wakka

I found this article extremely helpful in navigating the extensive list of different cup 2's:

https://motoiq.com/not-all-michelin-...ated-the-same/

Thanks, it just reinforces the fact that bigger tires aren't always better performing tires. My stock CS Cup2 * Connect 240 tires have been validated.

[RugbyBro]

In case anyone is curious - I am currently running the G8X * Spec Cup 2 Connect in front on my F80 (also the rear but that's 20in so don't know how many M2 guys are running the 19/20 setup). It's listed as 275/35R19 but it reality it's not much wider than a 265 and fit's squarely with no bulge on the 9in 763 front wheel.

I vaguely remember that M2s can potentially fit a 265 in front, so this might be another option in that case

[z19930612]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

In case anyone is curious - I am currently running the G8X * Spec Cup 2 Connect in front on my F80 (also the rear but that's 20in so don't know how many M2 guys are running the 19/20 setup). It's listed as 275/35R19 but it reality it's not much wider than a 265 and fit's squarely with no bulge on the 9in 763 front wheel.

I vaguely remember that M2s can potentially fit a 265 in front, so this might be another option in that case

Putting 265 tyre on M2C will rub against the inner wheel arch trim when parking and counter steering during drifting, you can even feel the steering wheel blocking in your hand, it's kinda messy and even dangerous.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by z19930612

Putting 265 tyre on M2C will rub against the inner wheel arch trim when parking and counter steering during drifting, you can even feel the steering wheel blocking in your hand, it's kinda messy and even dangerous.

Oh interesting - I thought I remembered reading that 265 was a direct fit in front when I was looking at M2s years ago. The limited front clearance is ultimately what drove me to F80/2. It's tight and just barely grazes on F80 but the F80 liners have plenty of room to mold with a heat gun, don't know if that's true on F87.

[Ratcher]

Originally Posted by z19930612

Putting 265 tyre on M2C will rub against the inner wheel arch trim when parking and counter steering during drifting, you can even feel the steering wheel blocking in your hand, it's kinda messy and even dangerous.

On top of that, a 265 tire will be so bulky on a 9J wheel, that it actually is counter-productive.

Be careful going for * marking just because it is BMW. Example: you can get a 245 PS4S tire, that fits your M2's front axle. That is a tire developed for the 3 series rear axle, is much smaller and won't work as intended, meaning despite having a *, it is far from ideal.
Just get a tire that was developed to a similar car: for example MO tires (AMG) work quite well, since their cars are built similarly.

[z19930612]

Originally Posted by Ratcher

On top of that, a 265 tire will be so bulky on a 9J wheel, that it actually is counter-productive.

Be careful going for * marking just because it is BMW. Example: you can get a 245 PS4S tire, that fits your M2's front axle. That is a tire developed for the 3 series rear axle, is much smaller and won't work as intended, meaning despite having a *, it is far from ideal.
Just get a tire that was developed to a similar car: for example MO tires (AMG) work quite well, since their cars are built similarly.

True, apart from the *, we also have to find out which car is this tire designed for.

[medphysdave]

I run the track connect sensors. I attribute my almost 15k miles on my cup2s because I keep the pressure dialed in throughout the 4 seasons to hit the target temp range as quickly as possible during my commute. No track days. A few spirited mountain drives. It's a great tire. Does decent in the rain. They'll even take a bit of standing water. Major downpours require extra attention. They do ok in the cold. Below 45 degrees extra attention is needed. I've driven them in the low 30s.

[Rk-d]

Just installed the 763M/Cup2s

Tires are still not broken in, but I can feel the difference.

More road texture comes through with the Cup2s. Steering is more directional and some of the on center dullness is taken out.

It's subtle, but these tires do make a real difference, even with casual street driving.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by Rk-d

Just installed the 763M/Cup2s

Tires are still not broken in, but I can feel the difference.

More road texture comes through with the Cup2s. Steering is more directional and some of the on center dullness is taken out.

It's subtle, but these tires do make a real difference, even with casual street driving.

Truth

Keep those tire pressures on point year round and you'll get plenty of non-track life out of them.