[ashmostro]

Reviewing ISTA, I think it might be doable with some modifications and further retrofitting of switches from the factory seat.

[okla_m2c]

OP - thanks for this thread, I'm in search of something similar.

I'm leaning towards the Recaro Pole Position ABE version. There's another thread that talks about the differences between the ABE vs FIA versions here: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1628112

Problem is that it's harder to source the ABE versions in the U.S., as they're seen as the Euro-versions, except that they're practically the same seat used in the M4 GTS.

Also leaning toward Recaro's since they would be cheaper than the Cobra Nogaros (and I like the look of it better). Still trying to do my research on seat setup though, and open to any feedback/suggestions.

[Fabb]

No offense but the cobra ones just doesn’t looks that much supported on the thigh. When you have high lateral g on track you need something to keep your legs from wiggling around.

Also having a 3 point at bucket seat is already a safety compromise. You just try your best to make it as safe as possible. If you are concerned about receptacle location, run one of the receptacle extension through the hole and the belt will cover your body properly

[Anonymoose]

Originally Posted by Fabb

No offense but the cobra ones just doesn’t looks that much supported on the thigh. When you have high lateral g on track you need something to keep your legs from wiggling around.

Also having a 3 point at bucket seat is already a safety compromise. You just try your best to make it as safe as possible. If you are concerned about receptacle location, run one of the receptacle extension through the hole and the belt will cover your body properly

With a 6 point you're strapped down with the nogaros. I didn't have any issues with mine on the track. Only reason why I got rid of mine was because I went to halos.

I ran the 3 point that attached to my floor mount. I only used it on the street so I'm not taking 5 mins to get strapped in to run to the grocery store lol

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

With a 6 point you're strapped down with the nogaros. I didn't have any issues with mine on the track. Only reason why I got rid of mine was because I went to halos.

I ran the 3 point that attached to my floor mount. I only used it on the street so I'm not taking 5 mins to get strapped in to run to the grocery store lol

It's illegal for use to use harness on the street here.
We have to use the OE 3 point for street & run a full harness for track only.

[Anonymoose]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

It's illegal for use to use harness on the street here.
We have to use the OE 3 point for street & run a full harness for track only.

It is here in the US as well with one exception. I had the dot approved harness. Which gives it a red press button.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by Fabb

No offense but the cobra ones just doesn’t looks that much supported on the thigh. When you have high lateral g on track you need something to keep your legs from wiggling around.

Also having a 3 point at bucket seat is already a safety compromise. You just try your best to make it as safe as possible. If you are concerned about receptacle location, run one of the receptacle extension through the hole and the belt will cover your body properly

They don’t have as much support but a huge step up from stock and a good compromise for a street/track car.

I agree that having a bucket with 3 point will be unsafer + you lose the side airbag. I seen the extension belt receptacles, they seem to do the job but the cobras still look better (also don’t have to run the seatbelt through the hole on the other side of the receptacle).

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by gopropham

OP - thanks for this thread, I'm in search of something similar.

I'm leaning towards the Recaro Pole Position ABE version. There's another thread that talks about the differences between the ABE vs FIA versions here: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1628112

Problem is that it's harder to source the ABE versions in the U.S., as they're seen as the Euro-versions, except that they're practically the same seat used in the M4 GTS.

Also leaning toward Recaro's since they would be cheaper than the Cobra Nogaros (and I like the look of it better). Still trying to do my research on seat setup though, and open to any feedback/suggestions.

where are you seeing the abes being cheaper than the cobras?

I like the Recaros too, maybe more actually but they are hard to find in the US for sure. The seatbelt holder hole seems to be big enough and positioned properly to allow 3 point belts (unlike seats like the sparco QRT where the whole is not only tiny but also too high)

[///393]

There are two versions of the PP ABE. The newer ‘classic’ PP ABE has some cool material choices like plaid and houndstooth and run a little more than the basic PP ABE. Pricing is all relative to the the spec. Leather Carbon units run closer to $2000 while the MSRP for the base fabric in FRP is $960.

https://shopeu.recaro-automotive.com...e-position-abe

More expensive ‘classic’ model in houndstooth (Pepita)
https://www.urotuning.com/products/r...UaAvEvEALw_wcB

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by wilson kop

There are two versions of the PP ABE. The newer ‘classic’ PP ABE has some cool material choices like plaid and houndstooth and run a little more than the basic PP ABE. Pricing is all relative to the the spec. Leather Carbon units run closer to $2000 while the MSRP for the base fabric in FRP is $960.

https://shopeu.recaro-automotive.com...e-position-abe

More expensive ‘classic’ model in houndstooth (Pepita)
https://www.urotuning.com/products/r...UaAvEvEALw_wcB

I see. I would be good with the fake leather outter and dinamica inner. Looks pretty nice. Seems to be similar priced to the cobra. I was quoted 1400 for the cobra with matching blue stitching which is not terrible.

The classic is very nice but yeah out my price range, for 2300 I want to get both seats.

[Fabb]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

They don’t have as much support but a huge step up from stock and a good compromise for a street/track car.

I agree that having a bucket with 3 point will be unsafer + you lose the side airbag. I seen the extension belt receptacles, they seem to do the job but the cobras still look better (also don’t have to run the seatbelt through the hole on the other side of the receptacle).

I ran SPARCO QRT-C as a 210lbs male. I found it fits me quite good. Also running 3 point. I’m sure you will be happy with the cobra if it fits good. Just get proper harness if you are on track.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by Fabb

I ran SPARCO QRT-C as a 210lbs male. I found it fits me quite good. Also running 3 point. I’m sure you will be happy with the cobra if it fits good. Just get proper harness if you are on track.

The plan is to get a cage eventually and then I will run harnesses.

[///393]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

I see. I would be good with the fake leather outter and dinamica inner. Looks pretty nice.

See, I’m not all negative

[okla_m2c]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

The plan is to get a cage eventually and then I will run harnesses.

I just pulled the trigger on some Recaro ABE's getting shipped from Germany. They were substantially cheaper than any other dealer state-side that I found. Should come in ~3-4 weeks.

Planning on going the BK mount route (direct to OEM sliders) and keeping the power sliding functionality.

Just need to determine which harness color I want.. my car is HK silver, roll bar is dark/gloss blue.

[///393]

Originally Posted by gopropham

I just pulled the trigger on some Recaro ABE's getting shipped from Germany. They were substantially cheaper than any other dealer state-side that I found. Should come in ~3-4 weeks.

What vendor did you go with? I’m headed down this same path.

Heads up to all: They are notorious for only fitting smaller folks with regards to the harness slots. Recaro Sportster have the same issue. Discovery Parts in ATL says 5’10”-5”11 is typically max.

Taller folks end up with harness slots that are too low on their shoulder to be considered safe. I’ve noticed Germany doesn’t seem to gaf about it and puts Pole Positions in everything fwiw.

[okla_m2c]

Originally Posted by wilson kop

What vendor did you go with? I’m headed down this same path.

Heads up to all: They are notorious for only fitting smaller folks with regards to the harness slots. Recaro Sportster have the same issue. Discovery Parts in ATL says 5’10”-5”11 is typically max.

Taller folks end up with harness slots that are too low on their shoulder to be considered safe. I’ve noticed Germany doesn’t seem to gaf about it and puts Pole Positions in everything fwiw.

I'm not a very tall guy, I'm 5'5" on a good day, so no issues for me going for PP's.

I went with a vendor called Maar Handels. His name is Dimitri, and I believe he used to be known as "Tankik". He's been selling on ebay for years, and it seems like he is migrating more of his stuff to his online shop. I ended up buying through his online site, since it's slightly cheaper than his ebay store (he marks up slightly on ebay to account for ebay's surcharges).

He's extremely responsive via email. Sent me pics, etc. Hope I don't put my foot in my mouth, but so far it's been a good experience, just waiting for the seats to arrive.

As for the roll-bar, I ended up buying from Jason from OG Shark (he's very active on this forum). I'll have to post pics of it soon, but pretty satisfied with the product and support.

[TargaM2]

Ok here’s some facts for those interested (sorry if this sounds abrupt but safety is no joke & this info could save your life when setting up a car correctly):-

As someone who owns/tracks cars fitted with both the Recaros & Cobras I have some first hand experience. I’m also a national level Motorsport Australia scrutineer & have competed at national/state level Motorsport for more years than I care to remember. I mention this simply to establish background as to my recomendations (Nothing to prove).

The Cobra Nogaro & Recaro Pole position are both great dual purpose seats & entirely safe for use with a 3 point belt or a 6 point harness. The main difference is the Cobra is a newer/improved design that did away with the pass through holes in the side bolsters which enables better use of the oem 3 point belts regardless of the drivers body size/shape (thus a better dual purpose seat). Both are equally supportive.

My RS275 came from the factory fitted with Recaro Pole positions & fitted with both oem 3 point belts & oem 6 point Sabelt harnesses. My M2 is fitted with aftermarket Cobra Nogaros & has both the factory oem 3 points & aftermarket 6 point Schroth harnesses.
I fit the harnesses only when I intend to use either car on track.
I wouldn’t recommend either seat for a competition car, If you intend to progress to higher levels I would instead go with an FIA approved winged seat something like the Cobra Evolutions in my RS200 (pics below).

The combination that is unsafe to use is a 2 piece seat in conjunction with a harness. The reason being that in an accident the seat back of a 2 piece seat can collapse & a harness will not allow the driver to fall aside as a 3 point belt does.
Thus anyone using a harness with a 2 piece seat is gambling with safety (whether on road or track). The only exception to this I am aware of is the ‘special’ Schroth harness developed for such use.
This is the reason why the M3/4 comes with the new carbon 2 piece seats & no harness/cage option but when you go to a track specific car such as the new M4 CSL it has the correct 1 piece seats/cage option for harness use (as oem in my RS275 & a 911 GT3 etc etc etc).

As a scrutineer I HAVE to know the safety facts & have done my share of track accident reports so that’s why I’m making the recomendations I have. I am not telling anyone what to do & if you prefer to go another direction that’s cool but please don’t post rubbish where safety is concerned.

The muddy waters are when uninformed government regulation bodies get involved (I haven’t mentioned air bags & roll cages as these are discussions on their own).

Thus the decision comes down to this:-

A. If you intend to use a harness you should fit a 1 piece seat (only use 5/6 point harnesses not a 4 point due to submarining).
B. If you are only using a 3 point belt you only need a 2 piece seat.

[///393]

only use 5/6 point harnesses not a 4 point-due to submarining

As a national level Motorsport Australia scrutineer can you explain how the risk of submarining is GREATER with a 4-point Schroth Quick Fit Pro than my OE 3 point belt?

Per Schroth:

Schroth's revolutionary Quick Fit Pro is the world's first 4 point harness that is designed to be used with a HANS Device in your stock seats! Now the safety and peace of mind that come from driving with a HANS device is available to the Driver's School and Open track day participant.

The secret behind this revolutionary design is the integration with the vehicle's existing safety system and an innovative geometry maximizing effectiveness of the HANS Device. Conventional 4 point restraints do not join at a center Cam Lock, they are sewn to lap belts leaving them almost 6-8 inches apart from each other. The design of the Quick Fit Pro is such that both shoulder belts angle in towards the Cam Lock facilitating use with a HANS Device.

Like the Standard Quick Fit Harnesses, the Quick Fit Pro clicks into the car's female seat belt receptacles. This alerts the airbag computer to the fact that someone is in the seat and restrained, as well as takes advantage of the seat belt pre-tensioner. This device ignites a pyrotechnic charge in the event of an accident that will tighten the lap belt. This integration into the factory safety system is a very important part of the Schroth Quick Fit Pro.

Please note: These harnesses are designed to be used in stock seats that have passed a seat back strength test. Quick Fit harnesses are not approved for use with any fixed back or aftermarket seats with the following exceptions: The Cobra Nogaro and Recaro Pole Position ABE are approved for use with QuickFIt harnesses in already approved vehicles.

[TargaM2]

Originally Posted by wilson kop

only use 5/6 point harnesses not a 4 point-due to submarining

As a national level Motorsport Australia scrutineer can you explain how the risk of submarining is GREATER with a 4-point Schroth Quick Fit Pro than my OE 3 point belt?

Per Schroth:

[I]Schroth's revolutionary Quick Fit Pro is the world's first 4 point harness that is designed to be used with a HANS Device in your stock seats! Now the safety and peace of mind that come from driving with a HANS device is available to the Driver's School and Open track day participant.

The secret behind this revolutionary design is the integration with the vehicle's existing safety system and an innovative geometry maximizing effectiveness of the HANS Device. Conventional 4 point restraints do not join at a center Cam Lock, they are sewn to lap belts leaving them almost 6-8 inches apart from each other. The design of the Quick Fit Pro is such that both shoulder belts angle in towards the Cam Lock facilitating use with a HANS Device.

Like the Standard Quick Fit Harnesses, the Quick Fit Pro clicks into the car's female seat belt receptacles. This alerts the airbag computer to the fact that someone is in the seat and restrained, as well as takes advantage of the seat belt pre-tensioner. This device ignites a pyrotechnic charge in the event of an accident that will tighten the lap belt. This integration into the factory safety system is a very important part of the Schroth Quick Fit Pro.

Please note: These harnesses are designed to be used in stock seats that have passed a seat back strength test. Quick Fit [...]

I did NOT say the risk of submarining was greater with a 4 point belt than a 3 point !. I said a 4 point harness is not as safe as a 6 point harness due to the possibility of submarining which is also a possibility with a 3 point belt obviously.

4 point harnesses are actually banned for use in most middle to upper level Motorsport for the above reason.
For those unaware of what submarining is, it is sliding forward under the lap section of a 3 or 4 point belt, which is obviously not possible with a 6 point belt due to the crotch strap.

I am well aware of the Schroth ‘special’ belts (sat through an online seminar on them) & I actually have the Schroth 6-point quick fit pros currently fitted in my M2 (pic below) as I am required to use a HANS device. These ‘special’ Schroth belts are an entire discussion on their own.

I realize you may struggle with what I said but please don’t quote me incorrectly, as I have no desire to be associated with your statements where safety is concerned.🙄

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by gopropham

I'm not a very tall guy, I'm 5'5" on a good day, so no issues for me going for PP's.

I went with a vendor called Maar Handels. His name is Dimitri, and I believe he used to be known as "Tankik". He's been selling on ebay for years, and it seems like he is migrating more of his stuff to his online shop. I ended up buying through his online site, since it's slightly cheaper than his ebay store (he marks up slightly on ebay to account for ebay's surcharges).

He's extremely responsive via email. Sent me pics, etc. Hope I don't put my foot in my mouth, but so far it's been a good experience, just waiting for the seats to arrive.

As for the roll-bar, I ended up buying from Jason from OG Shark (he's very active on this forum). I'll have to post pics of it soon, but pretty satisfied with the product and support.

I saw his shop on ebay, prices are reasonable and so is shipping. let us know how this goes, good to know there is a website that is even cheaper, of course with ebay you have them behind your purchase so not a bad thing.

But yeah let us know how your experience goes.

Originally Posted by wilson kop

What vendor did you go with? I’m headed down this same path.

Heads up to all: They are notorious for only fitting smaller folks with regards to the harness slots. Recaro Sportster have the same issue. Discovery Parts in ATL says 5’10”-5”11 is typically max.

Taller folks end up with harness slots that are too low on their shoulder to be considered safe. I’ve noticed Germany doesn’t seem to gaf about it and puts Pole Positions in everything fwiw.

I thought the ABES had higher harness slots?

But yeah that be a huge bummer to get these sits from germany and then the damn slots are too low. I am 6'1 so I have to make sure they are about where my shoulders are.

[///393]

Originally Posted by TargaM2

��I did NOT say the risk of submarining was greater with a 4 point belt than a 3 point !. I said a 4 point harness is not as safe as a 6 point harness due to the possibility of submarining which is also a possibility with a 3 point belt obviously.

I quoted you directly and asked a question. Thus the question marks. It was a question, and not a statement. Take it down a notch. No one is questioning your supreme authority on the matter. I asked you the question, because you're the expert there Targa with all those online seminars. Breath.

Originally Posted by TargaM2

I am well aware of the Schroth ‘special’ belts (I’ve attended an online seminar on them) & I actually have 6 point quick fit pros currently fitted in my M2 (pic below). These ‘special’ Schroth belts are an entire discussion on their own.

Perfect, because that's the discussion I'm trying to have chief. Your sanctimony is exactly why I don't like asking experts like you anything because you can't resist talking down to people. Save that bs for your kids.

Originally Posted by TargaM2

I realize you may struggle with comprehending what is over your head but please don’t quote me incorrectly, as I have no desire to be associated with your statements where safety is concerned.��

I quoted you directly but you're so blinded with expert rage it's your comprehension that's broken. Being a twat is my thing. Get your own shtick.

[///393]

If you guys are ever wondering if you're talking with a national level Motorsport Australia scrutineer don't worry, they'll tell you, multiple times.