[F87source]

Originally Posted by yanboogie

Great write up! Thank you for taking your time to do this and thanks again to the bm3 team!

I’ve used both, I can say you are certainly correct. MHD lacks to innovate and just follows what others are doing. They don’t want to put the time, effort or resources to do any R&D, they just match what everyone else does.

I’ve personally had terrible customer service with MHD, while Serge was always amazing with his support and willingness to look into matters. Im certainly on the verge of going back to bm3, if I decide to keep my current car.

I’ve had nothing by problems with the maps from MHD, and it seems with every release there are more issues im finding. I’ve also had mentioned to their team about issues I’ve had and so have others for them to only respond with, we see no issues every time, but funny enough I’ll see them either shadow patch or throw the patch later on as if it was just something they found themselves, never admitting that what others have said are true. It’s a real shame.

As for the license stuff, as a tech person I know they can change things yet they act as if it’s hard coded in and as if they just can’t manage databases since it’s through auth0. They just don’t want to as they want to lock their customers in, that’s real shitty.

Thanks for the kind words!

I found MHD's addressing of new features and issues to not be as good as BM3, for instance I asked if they could fix the lag between shifts and they said they would introduce something better than BM3 by miles. Well their solution was no lift shift.... Not even remotely the same thing, because NLS is for drag racing applications, whereas fixing the lag between the shifts fixes driving in all aspects - daily driving, spirited driving, and most importantly on track where NLS is useless because we actually come off the throttle on track... Sure NLS is a nice feature but not what we asked for, especially since it can't be used all the time. BM3 also iirc is working on adding this and a bunch of new stuff so there we go more progress for bm3 - as requested by customers.


Yep I agree, MHD's license situation is the dumbest sh*t I have ever seen. You buy their license and it's stuck to your email, not your car (which is already a bad thing), but your email (which is exponentially worse). So if you sell your car you best get ready to sell your email as well, otherwise you are left with a virtual paper weight.... They could easily allow you to change your registered email in their database or some how transfer the license while retaining vin lock (that way you can sell your car and give the new owner the tune), but no.



Edit - Don't get me wrong I'm not saying MHD is bad, it clearly isn't otherwise I wouldn't have purchased it (plus an enet adapter) in the first place with my own money. There were just things there that really bothered me that they never addressed and there were things that they are doing that I really don't like that prompted me to make the switch to BM3. Also I really did not like how MHD handled their hardware and it's likely because they don't do everything in house, for example their flex fuel ECA, I hate that hard line plastic line, these types of lines can break at the connector when they age over time and that's not ideal. With BM3 they use braided AN lines which is so much more robust. BM3 also made a bespoke adapter that increases flow past the restrictive flex sensor, again all bespoke in house design - which is why their products imo are so clean and cohesive. Then comes their wifi enet adapter, MHD hyped the shit out of their initial black adapter which turned out to be some relabeled generic adapter from Taiwan... I also had an issue with mine and they told me to deal with the vendor I bought it from.... Yeah not a fan of how MHD does some things (especially how they lock their software to your email), despite their software being pretty solid.

I was also observing BM3's progress over the years and I really liked what I saw, and if their REV 2 board and custom rom v2 is as good as I am expecting then it should equal MHD + motiv reflex, and at that point you're really not missing anything anymore by using BM3 (currently BM3 is a bit behind on custom rom stuff and with canbus integration).

[rlesko]

Originally Posted by F87source

Yep I agree, MHD's license situation is the dumbest sh*t I have ever seen. You buy their license and it's stuck to your email, not your car (which is already a bad thing), but your email (which is exponentially worse). So if you sell your car you best get ready to sell your email as well, otherwise you are left with a virtual paper weight.... They could easily allow you to change your registered email in their database or some how transfer the license while retaining vin lock (that way you can sell your car and give the new owner the tune), but no.

As someone who is currently debating MHD vs BM3 this is a really spectacular post. Thanks OP! I literally already created a junk email that I could xfer with my car in the event that I purchased MHD lol.

Just to be clear, you are not in any way affiliated with PTF/BM3 in any business or professional capacity, correct?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by rlesko

As someone who is currently debating MHD vs BM3 this is a really spectacular post. Thanks OP! I literally already created a junk email that I could xfer with my car in the event that I purchased MHD lol.

Just to be clear, you are not in any way affiliated with PTF/BM3 in any business or professional capacity, correct?

No problem glad my review was useful.


Yes, I'm not affiliated with PTF/BM3 in any business or professional capacity. They did not pay me, give me commission, or pretty much anything else. They simply just agreed to sponsor me for a review because I asked for it. They didn't reach out to me, I reached out to them - so this review was done because I wanted to do it not the other way around. So even if I wasn't sponsored I'd still have purchased bm3 with my own money - there just wouldn't have been a super indepth review. So that should explain exactly how I feel about bm3.

Note: I explain all of this in my disclaimer section.

[3t3p]

NLS from MHD is different from BM3 solution?

Lowest Rpm I can set to is 5k.

[rlesko]

Originally Posted by F87source

No problem glad my review was useful.


Yes, I'm not affiliated with PTF/BM3 in any business or professional capacity. They did not pay me, give me commission, or pretty much anything else. They simply just agreed to sponsor me for a review because I asked for it. They didn't reach out to me, I reached out to them - so this review was done because I wanted to do it not the other way around. So even if I wasn't sponsored I'd still have purchased bm3 with my own money - there just wouldn't have been a super indepth review. So that should explain exactly how I feel about bm3.

Note: I explain all of this in my disclaimer section.

Indeed you do, that is my mistake for glossing over that section of your post. I'm not going to lie I saw the beginning started off with "Damage/Injury Disclaimer" and I kinda skipped past it

[F87source]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

NLS from MHD is different from BM3 solution?

Lowest Rpm I can set to is 5k.

Yes it is, bm3 isn't nls. Bm3 is an actual lag fix where when you shift normally or quickly (foot off the gas when you clutch in) the lag afterwards is fully eliminated. It doesn't matter what driving mode or rpm, the lag is actually fixed.

Bm3 will also add nls as well iirc.

Originally Posted by rlesko

Indeed you do, that is my mistake for glossing over that section of your post. I'm not going to lie I saw the beginning started off with "Damage/Injury Disclaimer" and I kinda skipped past it

[3t3p]

Holy crap never realised this was what bm3 was doing!

When's black Friday again...

[F87source]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

Holy crap never realised this was what bm3 was doing!

When's black Friday again...

Yeah that's exactly what bm3 is doing, here's a thread talking about it: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1699999

Haha black Friday is on November 24th, I'm waiting for some electronics deals as well lol.

[Kiddvegas]

Originally Posted by F87source

Yeah that's exactly what bm3 is doing, here's a thread talking about it: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1699999

Haha black Friday is on November 24th, I'm waiting for some electronics deals as well lol.

Slightly off topic, but kinda on topic in regards to BM3 tuning. Where abouts in Canada do you reside? My M2 is currently stock, but a tune is inevitable. Tunezilla recently posted a video on Instagram with a Audi C8 rs6, showing the difference between the Shell 93 and Chevron 94 in Vancouver. There was 100+ wheel horsepower gain with Shell vs Chev 94, which is crazy.
I’m curious which map do you usually run with bm3 with the fuels we have up here.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Kiddvegas

Slightly off topic, but kinda on topic in regards to BM3 tuning. Where abouts in Canada do you reside? My M2 is currently stock, but a tune is inevitable. Tunezilla recently posted a video on Instagram with a Audi C8 rs6, showing the difference between the Shell 93 and Chevron 94 in Vancouver. There was 100+ wheel horsepower gain with Shell vs Chev 94, which is crazy.
I’m curious which map do you usually run with bm3 with the fuels we have up here.

Imo and the opinion of many others, Chevron 94 in Canada sucks and is no better than shell 91.

Shell 93 is the go to fuel if you have it, the only exception is mobil1 94 (I believe this used to be husky 94) which still outperforms shell 93, because it really is a 94 octane fuel.

[-Eidos]

Bend Calibration released an article pretty recently about their thoughts on the three tuning platforms. It's a really good read and gives some unique insights into how professionals of their caliber choose which platform to go with for each chassis.

https://www.bendcalibration.com/blog...ation-platform

[F87source]

Originally Posted by -Eidos

Bend Calibration released an article pretty recently about their thoughts on the three tuning platforms. It's a really good read and gives some unique insights into how professionals of their caliber choose which platform to go with for each chassis.

https://www.bendcalibration.com/blog...ation-platform

I disagree, I had the opportunity to start fresh from the ground up when I left MHD - but I chose BM3 over ECUTEK because they keep adding features ECUTEK doesn't even posses. I have nothing against BEND, they are quality tuners, but I don't agree with their assessment. I also kind of disagree with their tuning philosophy - they want to only tune within their modification standards (i.e. the mods they have seen and are comfortable with). I disagree with that, I prefer tuners being able to tune for everything and anything the customer wants. That shows true grasp of the DME logic and being able to bend the car to your will. But that's my only gripe, they are good tuners and better than alot of the rest, but I do have some disagreements which obviously is normal because no one will be able to match everything you expect or idealize.


For example, if you are calibrating and require more tables than the predefined map editor can support, you are absolutely screwed with Ecutek because what they have is what they have. With MHD and BM3 you can go and export the bin file and use winols or tuner pro inconjunction with the DAMOS for your ROM and now you have defined access to every possible table the ECU has for tuning. This is what will allow you to enable things in your car that wouldn't be possible with fixed table access - for example the m2 doesn't have an aux water pump which the m235i has. If you want to retrofit said aux water pump you must enable it via tuning, coding will not do it. This is impossible if your table editor is fixed with X amount of maps, but if you are able to have access to the entire DAMOS your can feasible port over the m235i's DME controls for the aux pump onto the m2 via tuning, and this is what Enabled and I have been talking about doing. This is a step up from what I was able to help ZM2 achieve with an e39 aux pump which is ignition triggered and always on, and will be even better than the next best option that I recently found out about and that was a stand alone pump controller. Then there are all sorts of additional things like sensor calibration, driveability tables etc that likely isn't completely defined on ECUTEK or BM3's predefined tables. You need access to the DAMOS and bmw funktionsrahmen to understand and alter.



The differences don't just end there. BM3 isn't fully reliant on a tuner, so if you get a new mod say injectors or coils or hpfp, you don't have to wait for a tuner to make the changes for you. You have user adjustable options to enable those mods. Same goes with throttle response, map sensors, burbles, etc. ECUTEK is just so tuner handicapped and that bothers me. It was OK to me back when I had Subaru's because every tuning platform was tuner handicapped, but ever since I moved to the BMW community I have changed my entire mind set on this, because we have options now.


Next it is software, BM3 is solely focused on BMW, Ecutek have so many other platforms they have to take care of BMW isn't necessarily their top focus. As a result you see BM3 bringing in more updates than Ecutek, for example BM3 now supports custom rom on Gen 2 B58's (and has supported it for months now) and ecutek and MHD do not. The same goes with the little features, BM3 is bringing in GUI changes, more ROM features, WIFI adapter encryption etc. While Ecutek is not.


Hardware is the next big difference, BM3 engineers all hardware in house, and they are currently working on some really big canbus integration projects - and since it is made in house integration will be seamless. https://www.protuningfreaks.com/blog...d3-electronics There is more to come, but it'll take time, and there is alot more in play that they haven't announced yet.




But at the end of the day the 3 tuning platforms essentially do the same thing, and that is alter preexisting tables on the DME as defined by the DAMOS. The only deviations is when Custom ROM comes into play, and table access. This is why I called all tuning platforms a DME flasher at their core, because that is their core function reflash the DME, all logic abd tables are still BMW. The only time this changes is when we talk about the custom rom features and all the little creature comforts as described above - that's what makes a tuning platform better than one another.

So if you aren't talking about custom rom, ECUTEK falls far behind because you don't have access to all the tables if needed. Take a look at @Enabled and what he is able to do with just the DAMOS, WINOLS, and bmw funktionsrahmen - he is tuning for professional race teams and is one hell of a tuner, doing things that NO ONE else has ever done nor thought was possible (retrofit an aux water pump, code in a 6mt gear indicator) due to his sheer understanding and grasp of the bmw architecture - and all of this without a "tuning platform". Do you think BMW calibrates their cars with ECUTEK, BM3, or MHD? No, they likely have internally developed table editors that function similarly to WINOLS, it's their understanding of the DME logic that makes their tuning so good. So saying one tuning platform is better just because it has "industry standard" layouts is not a good reason, it's just a different way to view the data. I would argue BM3 has a superior table editor, it has more creature comforts such as "version control", "ROM Conversion", etc. It just has a learning curve. But for basic tuning BM3 and MHD can do things Ecutek cannot do due to their ability to access the entire DME's table definitions via the DAMOS. This is only compounded when we talk about custom rom.


So like I said above, the Custom rom and the additional features of each tuning platform truly makes a tuning platform better than another. While I agree that currently ECUTEK has the strongest custom rom logic - likely due to their experience with custom rom on so many other platforms - this is going to change once BM3 introduces their rev 2 canbus integration. This is when BM3 starts opening the flood gates for proper canbus integration, and custom DME table mapping based on user defineable X, Y, Z and canbus inputs just like ECUTEK. I have full faith in BM3's ability to do such a thing, because their sole focus is BMW and they didn't hire an massive team of engineers just so they can sit back and do nothing.


But when you factor in stock tuning + custom rom + "creature comforts" the way I see it is as follows:

1) Currently ECUTEK has the best custom ROM in terms of freedom of defining, but will be surpassed because they don't have the ability to access every DME table. And remember race rom isn't rewriting every table in the DME, they are still using factory logic and they will never be able to get around this because you'd have to rewrite the entire DME's logic to do so and at that point a standalone ecu is the better bet. They are just adding on top. Ecutek also has non existent creature comforts, no end user adjustments or quick toggles, no user tuning, nothing - if you don't have a tuner you're screwed.

2) BM3 has full access of the DME, and has the best creature comforts and customization, but their custom rom is in its infancy - it's good in terms of what it has (flex fuel, anti-lag, map switch etc) but for custom mapping and custom canbus input it is still improving. When (not if) BM3 introduces their updated custom ROM features that matches ECUTEK (and I hear alot of interesting things from the BM3 camp) they will be the undesputed best.

3) MHD: They have full DME access, and pretty good custom rom features that include more canbus integration than BM3 but still not as good as ECUTEK if im not mistaken, but their creature comforts lag behind BM3 but far exceed ECUTEK. The way I saw progress with MHD in comparison with how fast things are improving with BM3, is why I left. Bm3 are non-stop innovating and are very quick to bring changes and updates, and are constantly expanding their team and have internal engineering capabilities now. MHD seems to be a bit slower, so I personally got the feeling BM3 would eclipse them sooner rather than later so that's why I think Bm3 will surpass them and why I left MHD. In terms of potential I think they're closer than ECUTEK to being the best, because they are half way there with creature comforts where as ECUTEK doesn't have any, and their custom rom is already developing quite well.


So I truly believe BM3 will be the best, all they really need is to improve custom ROM and they are there. ECUTEK and MHD have a bit more work to do with MHD being closer.

[F87source]

But I'd also like to add, at the time being every tuning platform has its strengths and weaknesses as I described in my full review. Like if you wanted 6 PI I jectors controlled by canbus integration it's not possible with bm3 at the current time (that's going to change) because bm3 doesn't have reflex support.

But It's the combination of every aspect of these tuning platforms that I analyzed in my full review + the potential of change and getting better over time that leads me to my conclusion that bm3 is going to be the best. Bmw's progress has been astounding to me, they've hired dedicated GUI designers, they've hired more software engineers to work on custom rom, and their progress is absolutely incredible. If their rate of improvement holds up, I believe they'll absolutely equal and eclipse ecutek in the custom rom department.

Whereas with ecutek I don't think their tuner dependent philosophy will allow them to improve end user experience to the level of MHD and bm3. So they'll be stuck.

[Sparky68]

Have looked at the BM3 platform for a while , ever since I had my M135i running FBO and Meth with a JB4. Just traded my 330d for a 2016 M2 in Alpine White which I collect tomorrow. What sort of power are these making with the OTS maps?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Sparky68

Have looked at the BM3 platform for a while , ever since I had my M135i running FBO and Meth with a JB4. Just traded my 330d for a 2016 M2 in Alpine White which I collect tomorrow. What sort of power are these making with the OTS maps?

I am uncertain because I personally don't really care about dyno numbers on OTS maps. I am more interested in reliability, repeatability, and driveability. But that being said I am certain it is pretty similar to the competition, if you look around on the forum I think you can seem some dyno numbers. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

[Sparky68]

Originally Posted by F87source

I am uncertain because I personally don't really care about dyno numbers on OTS maps. I am more interested in reliability, repeatability, and driveability. But that being said I am certain it is pretty similar to the competition, if you look around on the forum I think you can seem some dyno numbers. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

Hey no apologies needed your 1st post was one of the best reviews I've ever read. I'm more concerned about the safe numbers these can run than anything else.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Sparky68

Hey no apologies needed your 1st post was one of the best reviews I've ever read. I'm more concerned about the safe numbers these can run than anything else.

Thanks for the kind words!

Generally these engines are really tough, they can make 550whp all day long and not break a sweat, there are guys on here like Edios that are making 700whp+ without issue. Then there are guys like ZM2 beating the crap out of their m2 on track making 480 whp with Bm3 stage 2+ multi map, and he is pushing his car to limp mode coolant and oil temps lap after lap. So any OTS maps will be fine because the engine can take alot more. That being said the more critical thing to do is data log and ensure those logs look healthy. If they do, then the car has no problem running that OTS map. That is the general bench mark, not horse power. Because you can be making 5 whp more than stock on a crap tune and the car will blow up faster than a car making 700whp on a perfect tune. I've seen this happen when a guy got a CEL, cleared it, and continued to push the car - and he didn't data log at all.

[cookiesowns]

Originally Posted by F87source

But when you factor in stock tuning + custom rom + "creature comforts" the way I see it is as follows:

1) Currently ECUTEK has the best custom ROM in terms of freedom of defining, but will be surpassed because they don't have the ability to access every DME table. And remember race rom isn't rewriting every table in the DME, they are still using factory logic and they will never be able to get around this because you'd have to rewrite the entire DME's logic to do so and at that point a standalone ecu is the better bet. They are just adding on top. Ecutek also has non existent creature comforts, no end user adjustments or quick toggles, no user tuning, nothing - if you don't have a tuner you're screwed.

2) BM3 has full access of the DME, and has the best creature comforts and customization, but their custom rom is in its infancy - it's good in terms of what it has (flex fuel, anti-lag, map switch etc) but for custom mapping and custom canbus input it is still improving. When (not if) BM3 introduces their updated custom ROM features that matches ECUTEK (and I hear alot of interesting things from the BM3 camp) they will be the undesputed best.

3) MHD: They have full DME access, and pretty good custom rom features that include more canbus integration than BM3 but still not as good as ECUTEK if im not mistaken, but their creature comforts lag behind BM3 but far exceed ECUTEK. The way I saw progress with MHD in comparison with how fast things are improving with BM3, is why I left. Bm3 are non-stop innovating and are very quick to bring changes and updates, and are constantly expanding their team and have internal engineering capabilities now. MHD seems to be a bit slower, so I personally got the feeling BM3 would eclipse them sooner rather than later so that's why I think Bm3 will surpass them and why I left MHD. In terms of potential I think they're closer than ECUTEK to being the best, because they are half way there with creature comforts where as ECUTEK doesn't have any, and their custom rom is already developing quite well.


So I truly believe BM3 will be the best, all they really need is to improve custom ROM and they are there. ECUTEK and MHD have a bit more work to do with MHD being closer.

I excluded all the rest in quotes as I'm all about being objective than subjective, or having inherent bias as BM3 is what you landed on.

Disclaimer: this is on behalf of my own thoughts/opinions/perspective.

1) What makes you say they don't have acccess to every DME table? Their N55, S55, B58/S58 is one of the most complete definitions i've seen. You're mistaken if you don't think ecutek has access to "DAMOS, or FR" The beauty of ecutek is you don't need to worry about it and you can search through everything.

Also... a collective group including myself pushed BM3 to add the new tables that they've added in the last couple of years. this all stemmed from the fact that we had access to ecutek and its much more complete definitions than BM3 did at the time. Competition is good. Ecutek is also good at adding things that haven't been added yet, on the rare chance that they are missing something. Not to mention the RAM logging. Ecutek's logging applies to EVERY single custom ROM hook. BM3 is catching up, but last I checked they still sometimes miss out on key values.

2) Let's not make forward facing statements, only when once BM3 has those "custom rom" features you are suggesting, would it make it be much more of a even playing field between the advantages of ecutek.

3) As described in the bend calibration post, MHD has very clear advantage for S55 cars with their single bank strategy which required lots of custom code/hooks to be written, so big applause on the MHD crew there.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by cookiesowns

I excluded all the rest in quotes as I'm all about being objective than subjective, or having inherent bias as BM3 is what you landed on.

Disclaimer: this is on behalf of my own thoughts/opinions/perspective.

1) What makes you say they don't have acccess to every DME table? Their N55, S55, B58/S58 is one of the most complete definitions i've seen. You're mistaken if you don't think ecutek has access to "DAMOS, or FR" The beauty of ecutek is you don't need to worry about it and you can search through everything.

Also... a collective group including myself pushed BM3 to add the new tables that they've added in the last couple of years. this all stemmed from the fact that we had access to ecutek and its much more complete definitions than BM3 did at the time. Competition is good. Ecutek is also good at adding things that haven't been added yet, on the rare chance that they are missing something. Not to mention the RAM logging. Ecutek's logging applies to EVERY single custom ROM hook. BM3 is catching up, but last I checked they still sometimes miss out on key values.

2) Let's not make forward facing statements, only when once BM3 has those "custom rom" features you are suggesting, would it make it be much more of a even playing field between the advantages of ecutek.

3) As described in the bend calibration post, MHD has very clear advantage for S55 cars with their single bank strategy which required lots of custom code/hooks to be written, so big applause on the MHD crew there.

1) because the last time I checked ecutek told me they only have the necessary tables for tuning with a few additional ones. This may be quite comprehensive, but unless you can show me the ~60,000 tables that the DAMOS has then that answers that. Remember, with custom table editors maps have to be predefined by the manufacturer, that's always been the con and why companies like bm3 don't just define everything the DAMOS has because it's a crap ton of work multipled by thr number of cars that the company supports multiplied by all ROM variants. So is this worth it when most tables will never ever be touched? Most of the time the answer is no, so that's why it's not done. Even MHD's xdf doesn't define every table, just the really commonly used ones that are always used during tuning. So that's where manual definitions is so nice, because if it's not there you can add it without waiting for ecutek to do so.

And it seems like you've had experiences with bm3 where you wanted something and it wasn't there and had to wait, that sucked didn't it? That's what made mhd so appealing - because you don't have to wait for anyone you can manually define it yourself. This is what bm3 is doing now as well, they realized that flexibility is king, and have now given you the ability to define anything you want at any time, no more waiting - if you have the DAMOS you have everything. Btw this is also how customers feel when they have to wait on changes from their tuner, and this is why I hate ecutek because you have no control over anything without your tuner.


Sure ecutek can have the DAMOS and FR, you can easily buy that, but did they define all of them - that's the problem.

Yes competition is good.

2) Ok agreed, but you can read on their blog posts if you don't want to speculate.

3) yup, I agree.


Like I said before I don't have any problems with bend (I actually love you guys) or ecutek or MHD (I was a huge MHD fan/supporter but then I saw bm3's progress. For instance the flex fuel kit, mhd released a decent kit that I liked, it was clean and tidy however the hard-line sucked. These are the same style lines on the fuel tank breather system connected to the charge pipe and intake, and are super rigid and can crack and fail if stressed. I pointed this out on the release thread but was told after market parts can fail or something along those lines. With bm3 they released a super nice and flexible braided ptfe line with bespoke fittings that don't force 100% of the flow through the restrictive ethanol sensor. Bm3 then release another update that doesn't force it to connect solely via the ekp eliminating any extra power draw from the already strained ekp and so on. So the engineering and dedication to improve drew me to bm3, while MHD hasn't made any changes there. I even asked if MHD could create a kit for under car eca relocation or engine bay relocation due to after market LPFP hats preventing fitment but nothing, bm3 now has these relocations as well so there's that). But it's more than just that to pick a tuning platform, especially when it's quite a large investment. There's a reason why I didn't stick with MHD, or move to ecutek - which ive loved since my Subaru days.

[cookiesowns]

Originally Posted by F87source

1) because the last time I checked ecutek told me they only have the necessary tables for tuning with a few additional ones. This may be quite comprehensive, but unless you can show me the ~60,000 tables that the DAMOS has then that answers that. Sure ecutek can have the DAMOS and FR, you can easily buy that, but did they define all of them - that's the problem.

Yes competition is good.

2) Ok, but you can read on their blog posts if you don't want to speculate.

3) yup, I agree.


Like I said before I don't have any problems with bend (I actually love you guys) or ecutek or MHD. But it's more than just that to pick a tuning platform, especially when it's quite a large investment. There's a reason why I didn't stick with MHD, or move to ecutek - which ive loved since my Subaru days.

I can safely tell you that they have it and then some. They are gated behind a feature flag as they don't want tuners that aren't vetted using things they shouldn't be. And to be very frank, less than 2-5% of those tables are really needed for your typical builds.

The tuning platform is really only one part of the equation. Choosing the right tuner for your build, and going with their recommendation is always going to play out better.

At the end of the day, choose the platform that accomplishes yours and your tuners goals.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by cookiesowns

I can safely tell you that they have it and then some. They are gated behind a feature flag as they don't want tuners that aren't vetted using things they shouldn't be. And to be very frank, less than 2-5% of those tables are really needed for your typical builds.

The tuning platform is really only one part of the equation. Choosing the right tuner for your build, and going with their recommendation is always going to play out better.

At the end of the day, choose the platform that accomplishes yours and your tuners goals.

Could you share screen shot of any table counts (if applicable) or the DME tree? yeah I've said that, hence why most don't have all tables defined because it's a waste of time.


I don't completely agree with that point.

You want to make sure you don't waste money on a tuning platform so get something good. Choosing the right tuner? Yes absolutely. But going solely with their recommendation is a big no for me. Because that's how you get a tuner who has no tuning flexibility and can only tune inside the same box ovr and over again. A good tuner should be able to tune any combination of parts to perfection. Should you listen to an tuner for advice on parts? Sure, but nothing they can only tune on a specific set of parts and that's it.

For example I was told by a certain tuner, don't waste your money on flex fuel it's not going to be any good, the blending algorithms are trash so on so forth, and just get a fixed ethanol content tune. Then after flex fuel was released for the platform he tunes on he all of a sudden recommends flex fuel. I suspect this to be the case because he couldn't tune for flex fuel and made up crappy excuses.

[ThreeStripes]

I have BM3 and while I’m not thrilled to spend the money to switch to ECUTEK when the time comes to work with Bend and Cookiesown that’s absolutely the route I’m going.

Their model/ECUTEK may not be a fit for someone looking to have their own input on the process and autonomy but for someone like myself looking to defer to those more experienced it’s exactly what I’m after.

They’re supporting a local race team and their testimonial about the professional support they deliver and how easy they are to work with means more to me than any of the advantages BM3 may bring.

The BMW tuning community is fortunate to have so many great options and it sounds like whatever someone’s priorities and preferences are there is a great solution out there.