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      12-03-2015, 02:43 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
The ED program is controlled by dealers. Not by BMW the corporation. ED is, first and foremost, a sales program (and only tangentially related to tourism). And, when it comes to sales, the dealer is regarded, in a manner of speaking, as the tip of the spear. Sales issues are deferred to them.
So, if in Canada you do not get an ED discount, then you can bet your mommas kitchen it's because that's the way the dealers want it.
Likewise, the reduction of the US ED discount from 7% to 5% is driven by the US dealers.
Note: the aforementioned comments do not apply to sales in which cars are sold at ED invoice.
ED program is offered by BMW and controlled by BMW.
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      12-03-2015, 03:00 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by igom3 View Post
ED program is offered by BMW and controlled by BMW.
Are you saying if a customer wants to do an ED and it's offered by BMW, then the dealer does not have the authority to refuse the customer? I don't think so.
The dealer can refuse to do any ED deal (or any deal) if he feels the deal is not in his best interest. In my book, that means the dealer has the final say, not BMW, the corporation. That's control.
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      12-03-2015, 03:22 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
Are you saying if a customer wants to do an ED and it's offered by BMW, then the dealer does not have the authority to refuse the customer? I don't think so.
The dealer can refuse to do any ED deal (or any deal) if he feels the deal is not in his best interest. In my book, that means the dealer has the final say, not BMW, the corporation. That's control.
This is true. The BMW dealer agreement makes no such stipulations. It's all business in the end but some dealers lean more towards customer satisfaction and others towards short-term profitability.

Dealer "market availability addendum" (or mark-up a la 1M when it first came out) is a good case in point. BMW NA frowns on it but cannot forbid it. Some dealers do it habitually and others won't even consider it.
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      12-04-2015, 04:48 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
Are you saying if a customer wants to do an ED and it's offered by BMW, then the dealer does not have the authority to refuse the customer? I don't think so.
The dealer can refuse to do any ED deal (or any deal) if he feels the deal is not in his best interest. In my book, that means the dealer has the final say, not BMW, the corporation. That's control.
I haven't heard of any dealers refusing ED(at least in SO Cal). On the other hand its BMW program! They offer incentive for the customers to do ED and has nothing to do with a dealer. Dealers are just participating. Do you know any dealers who are refusing to do ED? If so I consider that as stupidity on their part,not a control! JMO

Last edited by igom3; 12-04-2015 at 04:53 PM..
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      12-04-2015, 06:43 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by igom3 View Post
Do you know any dealers who are refusing to do ED? If so I consider that as stupidity on their part,not a control! JMO
Why would a dealer sell you an allocation at an ED discount when he can sell that same allocation to someone else for over MSRP? I8's when they first came out are an example of that.
Do I know a dealer who refused an ED deal? Sure, Peter Pan BMW. When the car first came out, they were selling M4's with a market adjustment of 10 - 15k over MSRP. BMW made that car eligible for ED; but, regardless of how much you cried to BMW, the corporation, there is no way in hell Peter Pan BMW would discount their allocation for that car. Had they discounted it, that would have been stupid.
Here's one for you: prediction- the M4 GTS will not be sold by a dealer at an ED discount even if BMW were to allow that car to be sold that way.
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      12-04-2015, 06:54 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igom3 View Post
I haven't heard of any dealers refusing ED(at least in SO Cal).
Bob Smith BMW in Calabasas (Northwest Los Angeles) told me they would not do an ED on the M2. Two other dealers in the area told me they would be $5,000 over MSRP and others were not taking deposits or list. I have two deposits at two out of state dealerships.

I am hoping to do an ED then a delivery at the performance driver training facility outside of La Quinta, California. I am not sure they are doing deliveries there yet.
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      12-04-2015, 07:02 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igom3 View Post
I haven't heard of any dealers refusing ED(at least in SO Cal). On the other hand its BMW program! They offer incentive for the customers to do ED and has nothing to do with a dealer. Dealers are just participating. Do you know any dealers who are refusing to do ED? If so I consider that as stupidity on their part,not a control! JMO
BMW NA uses a network of independently owned dealerships to sell their cars. This is not Tesla, you do not buy your car from BMW. You buy your car from Shyster BMW. If a dealer chooses not to offer ED for a car, they're free to make that their policy. As mentioned above, Bob Smith doesn't do ED unless you're willing to pay for their "loss" through a markup. If you're willing to spend money, you can probably get anyone do let you do ED on any BMW. But calling BMW NA and complaining isn't going to get you an ED allocation through any dealer who doesn't want to participate.
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      12-04-2015, 08:24 PM   #74
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With the ease of forums and social media you'd think the dealers would think twice about doing insane markups. It doesn't take much for a a group of angry people to load up their google/yelp page with 1 star reviews or get a bad rep on a forum.
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      12-04-2015, 08:30 PM   #75
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With the ease of forums and social media you'd think the dealers would think twice about doing insane markups. It doesn't take much for a a group of angry people to load up their google/yelp page with 1 star reviews or get a bad rep on a forum.
I don't read online reviews of the various McDonald's in my area before deciding which one to go to.
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      12-04-2015, 09:55 PM   #76
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I don't read online reviews of the various McDonald's in my area before deciding which one to go to.
Neither do I but not necessary when spending $3. However, dropping $50k+ is a different story.
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      12-04-2015, 09:58 PM   #77
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Neither do I but not necessary when spending $3. However, dropping $50k+ is a different story.
I mean I know they are all pretty bad so unless someome found a finger in their chicken nuggets, it is what it is.
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      12-05-2015, 09:47 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck W. View Post
Bob Smith BMW in Calabasas (Northwest Los Angeles) told me they would not do an ED on the M2. Two other dealers in the area told me they would be $5,000 over MSRP and others were not taking deposits or list. I have two deposits at two out of state dealerships.

I am hoping to do a delivery at the performance driver training facility outside of La Quinta, California. I am not sure they are doing deliveries there yet.
I meant in general not just for particular model.No deliveries in Thermal PC yet. Maybe in 2017 according to them. I was there in June for one day M school and that's what I was told.
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      12-05-2015, 09:50 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
Why would a dealer sell you an allocation at an ED discount when he can sell that same allocation to someone else for over MSRP? I8's when they first came out are an example of that.
Do I know a dealer who refused an ED deal? Sure, Peter Pan BMW. When the car first came out, they were selling M4's with a market adjustment of 10 - 15k over MSRP. BMW made that car eligible for ED; but, regardless of how much you cried to BMW, the corporation, there is no way in hell Peter Pan BMW would discount their allocation for that car. Had they discounted it, that would have been stupid.
Here's one for you: prediction- the M4 GTS will not be sold by a dealer at an ED discount even if BMW were to allow that car to be sold that way.
See my reply below! I'm not talking M4 GTS or any other limited addition car.
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      12-05-2015, 10:08 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperzulu View Post
BMW NA uses a network of independently owned dealerships to sell their cars. This is not Tesla, you do not buy your car from BMW. You buy your car from Shyster BMW. If a dealer chooses not to offer ED for a car, they're free to make that their policy. As mentioned above, Bob Smith doesn't do ED unless you're willing to pay for their "loss" through a markup. If you're willing to spend money, you can probably get anyone do let you do ED on any BMW. But calling BMW NA and complaining isn't going to get you an ED allocation through any dealer who doesn't want to participate.
That's why I don't buy or lease my cars from Bob Smith or Jon Doe! There is no "loss" by doing ED. That discount is covered by BMW. Bob and other dealers who are not participating are just too greedy IMO. What I meant to say is that ED is BMW program and BMW is covering the "loss" so if a dealer doesn't want to participate its their choice.What I meant by "controlled" is that BMW is the one who sets the rules and pricing of ED. That's all
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      12-05-2015, 10:12 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck W. View Post
Bob Smith BMW in Calabasas (Northwest Los Angeles) told me they would not do an ED on the M2. Two other dealers in the area told me they would be $5,000 over MSRP and others were not taking deposits or list. I have two deposits at two out of state dealerships.

I am hoping to do an ED then a delivery at the performance driver training facility outside of La Quinta, California. I am not sure they are doing deliveries there yet.
My dealer will do ED on the M2 and he is doing U.S delivery at the MSRP!
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      12-05-2015, 08:53 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by igom3 View Post
My dealer will do ED on the M2 and he is doing U.S delivery at the MSRP!
Good deal. Make sure it is ED MSRP and not US MSRP.
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      12-06-2015, 12:05 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by LinkF1
While not ideal, it is not a dealbreaker. Just have to adjust what I consider a "good deal".
Absolutely
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      12-07-2015, 11:32 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by igom3 View Post
That's why I don't buy or lease my cars from Bob Smith or Jon Doe! There is no "loss" by doing ED. That discount is covered by BMW. Bob and other dealers who are not participating are just too greedy IMO. What I meant to say is that ED is BMW program and BMW is covering the "loss" so if a dealer doesn't want to participate its their choice.What I meant by "controlled" is that BMW is the one who sets the rules and pricing of ED. That's all
For normal cars, you're right. For M cars that come out of dealer allocation, yes there may be a "loss" to the dealer. Normal cars are just extra money at anything over invoice. Since it's sort of a windfall sale, I guess. But a car coming out of their allocation - that car could net the dealership whatever they sell the car for over invoice price, plus any money they get for a perfect survey score. No surveys are given for ED cars, so they have no chance to earn that bonus money. That's why in this context of M cars, some dealers prefer not to do ED at all (unless you're willing to pay above market value to cover the loss of their bonus).
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      12-07-2015, 01:51 PM   #85
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Good deal. Make sure it is ED MSRP and not US MSRP.
I know
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      12-10-2015, 03:30 PM   #86
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With respect to pre paid maintenance, I don't know what it costs me. And until that is revealed, It's hard to conclude it's a gimmick. It's a hidden cost.
I hope they eventually offer it as an option so I can make an informed decision.
It cost you real leather. Most of the car's don't come standard with real leather.

Z4, 2 Series, 3 Series, 4 Series, and 5 series all come standard with Sentac

For SUVS: X1, X3, X4, X5 all comes standard with Sentac

tldr: for most people, you compromise real leather for "free maintenance."
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