[bitcore]

Originally Posted by Wilson

Also, the funny thing about this is people want the M2 because of its performance, and then they want the slower option of the manual. If they were truly performance drivers there is only one gearbox to use, the M-DCT.

Transmission diversity is a good thing for us - you can select one according to your driving style. Like time trials, get DCT. Like to cruise and have a daily, get an auto. Like to shift gears with a handle and have a clutch pedal, get a manual.

I want a performance car, but not for time trials, I want to sling it around and have fun with it and want a sublime chassis with which to do that with. I also enjoy selecting gears the old way, and having a clutch pedal. It's very helpful to have an abort drift pedal to unload the rear wheels and let the car snap out of oversteer if things get too out of hand.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Cope

Thankfully that nightmare didn't occur, I jest but people can buy what they want; just continue to offer the archaic, in my opinion, more enjoyable option and we can all get along lol.

It's not about getting along, but about getting what we want !

[Robin_NL]

No. 6MT = 1M.


Cheers
Robin

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Funny, but IF M-DCT had been offered the car would have sold more in that form than it did in Manual.

what in the world are you talking about!?! LOL

there were way more people wanting a 1M than were ever produced. Demand was HUGE...and still high. a small, light, powerful M-car with a 6MT is just what we wanted...

The M2 better have a manual...or it won't be taken seriously by the people who really want a 1M sequel/successor.

[Reedomn]

^^^this

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

what in the world are you talking about!?! LOL

there were way more people wanting a 1M than were ever produced. Demand was HUGE...and still high. a small, light, powerful M-car with a 6MT is just what we wanted...

The M2 better have a manual...or it won't be taken seriously by the people who really want a 1M sequel/successor.

Maybe you don't get it.

M-DCT will outsell the manual, that's what I am talking about.

You can put down you manual cool aid now.

[Robin_NL]

I know what people want:
They want to choose





Between a manual and m-dct


Look at the reactions on the 991 GT3 not having a manual option or even the F10 m5 first not having that option.

It also was a pity the E46 M3CSL only came in SMG2, otherwise I had one right now but that's another story.


Cheers
Robin

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Maybe you don't get it.

M-DCT will outsell the manual, that's what I am talking about.

You can put down you manual cool aid now.

I have nothing against DCTs. I think they're fine for people who physically can't drive a manual, people who care about millisecond advantage lap times, or people who really just want the 'cutting edge' in latest technology. All of those reasons are understandable. I owned a DSG/S-Tronic dual clutch A3 for 2 years and really liked it as a gearbox.....

the 1M wasn't about any of those things though....it was about driving something really really fun. Sales numbers were not an issue.....there was already too much demand for them with just a simple 6 speed manual.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

I have nothing against DCTs. I think they're fine for people who physically can't drive a manual, people who care about millisecond advantage lap times, or people who really just want the 'cutting edge' in latest technology. All of those reasons are understandable. I owned a DSG/S-Tronic dual clutch A3 for 2 years and really liked it as a gearbox.....

the 1M wasn't about any of those things though....it was about driving something really really fun. Sales numbers were not an issue.....there was already too much demand for them with just a simple 6 speed manual.

If the 1m was sold in volume it would have sold more in DCT then the 6 speed. Turbo cars stay in boost better with out the manual shifts.

I like sticks, I just don't drink the cool aid on the subject and know personally how much better the modern turbo car performs with a fast shifting tranny. The car stays in boost better. Period.

[Cope]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

If the 1m was sold in volume it would have sold more in DCT then the 6 speed. Turbo cars stay in boost better with out the manual shifts.

I like sticks, I just don't drink the cool aid on the subject and know personally how much better the modern turbo car performs with a fast shifting tranny. The car stays in boost better. Period.

I'm gonna just keep chugging. Sure it stays in boost better to some extent but you lose that absolute connection to your car only three pedals can offer.

To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they slapped in the 8 speed instead of the DCT; it's not like the 1M set a precedent for the DCT needing to be present. It sure didn't carry over from the 135i to the M235i.

[Devon K]

...and it's out of the park, boys and girls! Thanks for the laugh.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Cope

I'm gonna just keep chugging. Sure it stays in boost better to some extent but you lose that absolute connection to your car only three pedals can offer.

To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they slapped in the 8 speed instead of the DCT; it's not like the 1M set a precedent for the DCT needing to be present. It sure didn't carry over from the 135i to the M235i.

To funny...!
I can see that happening too. While it's a great tranny-- Not sure how cheap they buy that box vs the other, regardless the 8 speed is no doubt a marvel. I can see them being cheap on this baby M, to preserve the true halo for the M3/4.

[IZAGLO]

Originally Posted by Cope

I'm gonna just keep chugging. Sure it stays in boost better to some extent but you lose that absolute connection to your car only three pedals can offer.

To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they slapped in the 8 speed instead of the DCT; it's not like the 1M set a precedent for the DCT needing to be present. It sure didn't carry over from the 135i to the M235i.

Today's auto's and DCT are amazing no doubt...I had paddles on my 135i for 3 years and almost every time i drove it( except in traffic) i wish i had the connection of a 6/M/T. Yea, turbo cars are faster with auto's for staying in boost better but for myself and MANY many other here would gladly give a hair of speed for a manual....i sold my 135i because of lack of connection with paddle shifting ... The cars today are so fast that this little difference in time mean nothing to folks like me who do not race....Both transmissions are solid and fun.....just the 6M/T is....to us is LOT'S more fun and physically MORE engaged, with more driver/ car connections ....after all with 6M/T all our available legs and arms are part of the equations ALL the time with no way out ....we are part of the machine in a way. And i like it that way !!!!!!!!! That being said auto's are great for folks who want them. Just not me. Will DCT/Auto's sell more??? Maybe, i doubt it....But either way BMW will and must offer a 6/M/T in M cars or lot's of us will jump to Porsche or Audi.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by IZAGLO

Today's auto's and DCT are amazing no doubt...I had paddles on my 135i for 3 years and almost every time i drove it( except in traffic) i wish i had the connection of a 6/M/T. Yea, turbo cars are faster with auto's for staying in boost better but for myself and MANY many other here would gladly give a hair of speed for a manual....i sold my 135i because of lack of connection with paddle shifting ... The cars today are so fast that this little difference in time mean nothing to folks like me who do not race....Both transmissions are solid and fun.....just the 6M/T is....to us is LOT'S more fun and physically MORE engaged, with more driver/ car connections ....after all with 6M/T all our available legs and arms are part of the equations ALL the time with no way out ....we are part of the machine in a way. And i like it that way !!!!!!!!! That being said auto's are great for folks who want them. Just not me. Will DCT/Auto's sell more??? Maybe, i doubt it....But either way BMW will and must offer a 6/M/T in M cars or lot's of us will jump to Porsche or Audi.

When you can run right up the ass of a AMG with 500+ hp w a 335 with PPK w/a auto box you know just how much better the auto holds boost. When you learn how to use the paddles well the stick becomes useless in more ways than one.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

When you can run right up the ass of a AMG with 500+ hp w a 335 with PPK w/a auto box you know just how much better the auto holds boost. When you learn how to use the paddles well the stick becomes useless in more ways than one.

not in terms of involvement. i LOVED my time in an Audi dual clutch shifting with paddles....but i'm sorry it is still nowhere near as involving as a Manual.....i used paddles 98% of the time and you still miss the coordination, the dynamics, and the challenge of shifting. It adds another dimension to driving, whether you are a fan or not...

again i appreciate dual clutch gearboxes, but to pretend they are equivelant to a manual gearbox is simply not accurate in terms of involvement and enjoyment for most of us who drive manuals.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

not in terms of involvement. i LOVED my time in an Audi dual clutch shifting with paddles....but i'm sorry it is still nowhere near as involving as a Manual.....i used paddles 98% of the time and you still miss the coordination, the dynamics, and the challenge of shifting. It adds another dimension to driving, whether you are a fan or not...

again i appreciate dual clutch gearboxes, but to pretend they are equivelant to a manual gearbox is simply not accurate in terms of involvement and enjoyment for most of us who drive manuals.

Never said they were the same. I am saying the stick won't touch the auto in instantaneous throttle response and it will not hold boost like an auto. Personally I like sticks on NA cars, and DCT on anything w/ Boost.

[BMWintoxication]

proper S engine please!!!! it will be my last petrol car...

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Never said they were the same. I am saying the stick won't touch the auto in instantaneous throttle response and it will not hold boost like an auto. Personally I like sticks on NA cars, and DCT on anything w/ Boost.

i'm really not sure what you mean by a manual not being able hold boost like an auto.....it's all about gearing, not really what kind of gearbox it is. in either gearbox, you can choose where you'd like to be in the rev range and in turn how you build up power.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

i'm really not sure what you mean by a manual not being able hold boost like an auto.....it's all about gearing, not really what kind of gearbox it is. in either gearbox, you can choose where you'd like to be in the rev range and in turn how you build up power.

The auto will hold boost while you shift the manual will not.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

The auto will hold boost while you shift the manual will not.

ah ok. so are you competing for milliseconds?

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

ah ok. so are you competing for milliseconds?

He is just trying to make you understand you what "holding boost" mean... and a few ms every time you shift and and you can easily rack a few seconds after some shifts....

in an auto if you are at 11psi on boost in 2nd gear when it switches to 3rd the boost never droops...and stays at 11psi

in the manual if you are at 11psi on boost in 2nd gear when you switch to 3rd and release the throttle you probably drop to 7 or 8 until you get back in the gas....

Involvement is totally subjective and you can prefer whichever you want....
But the auto will always be faster and more efficient than the manual and that's just a fact....

Days of manual transmission are already counted.... next M5 and M3/4 most likely won't offer it..... and even the auto trans days are counted too....10-15 years from now most cars will be electric with no gears...

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

He is just trying to make you understand you what "holding boost" mean... and a few ms every time you shift and and you can easily rack a few seconds after some shifts....

in an auto if you are at 11psi on boost in 2nd gear when it switches to 3rd the boost never droops...and stays at 11psi

in the manual if you are at 11psi on boost in 2nd gear when you switch to 3rd and release the throttle you probably drop to 7 or 8 until you get back in the gas....

Involvement is totally subjective and you can prefer whichever you want....
But the auto will always be faster and more efficient than the manual and that's just a fact....

Days of manual transmission are already counted.... next M5 and M3/4 most likely won't offer it..... and even the auto trans days are counted too....10-15 years from now most cars will be electric with no gears...

I agree....the manual is on the way out.....but plenty of good cars still offering them so not completely gone.

the DCT transmissions are great....the ZF auto boxes are overrated torque converted nonsense catering to the lazy driver with the illusion that they are like a DCT...they are being used because they are cheap...much cheaper than DCTs. Cost savings, ick! you'll never see an M car with a ZF gearbox....that would be a bit of a joke really.