[norMcal]

Originally Posted by cntzl

From Chris Harris:

"For similar money, BMW will sell you the new M2 Competition, which is basically an updated M2 fitted with a detuned M3 motor and some suspension upgrades. And it's a corker. The extra weight of the new engine doesn't factor, and the whole car feels less skittish than before. It's easier and more rewarding to drive smoothly and still a complete nutter if you want to enjoy that kind of thing. I loved the new clock faces, the sound of the motor on the overrun and I still think this is the best-looking M car on sale. In fact, it's so good, we all felt it needed to make the top five. Alongside the Alpine which - let's face it - simply has to make it through."

Aside from the "suspension upgrades" part, pretty solid statements from Chris

What a relief that CH thinks it's good, because if he didn't say so it would not bode (as) well for the M2C. (Sounds sarcastic, but I'm serious)

That being said, it does not sound like an earth shattering improvement over the standard M2. Nothing you couldn't achieve with some tuning on your own.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by norMcal

What a relief that CH thinks it's good, because if he didn't say so it would not bode (as) well for the M2C. (Sounds sarcastic, but I'm serious)

That being said, it does not sound like an earth shattering improvement over the standard M2. Nothing you couldn't achieve with some tuning on your own.

There is so much more to M2C than just extra 40HP which you can achive on OG M2 with certain tuning and cooling mods as you said. I'm not going to go into details about the fundamental differences between N55 vs S55 once again as there are numerous threads on this but all I can say is even if M2C made the same HP/TQ as the OG M2 from the factory I still would choose the S55 M2C over N55 M2 without a single hesitation

[cptobvious]

Originally Posted by norMcal

What a relief that CH thinks it's good, because if he didn't say so it would not bode (as) well for the M2C. (Sounds sarcastic, but I'm serious)

That being said, it does not sound like an earth shattering improvement over the standard M2. Nothing you couldn't achieve with some tuning on your own.

+1

It's funny, but after watching like... 800 Motor Trend, Carfection, and Chris Harris Drives Youtube reviews, all these reviewers openly joke about their "formula":

1. Test drive MY18, and it's awesome!
2. When MY19 comes out, even if it's only marginally better, rave as though it's the second coming
3. Say that MY18 was deficient in every way

Kind of reminds me of debates in sports about which athlete is the "greatest of all time." I mean, objectively, athletes are getting faster, stronger, more agile, etc., every year. (Whether that's due to PEDs or whatever is a debate for another time... but every year, records are broken, and these men and women keep doing things that we've never seen done before.) So, whenever people say, "Oh, is Messi the greatest of all time? Or does Maradona deserve that crown?" I think they're asking 2 different things:

1. Is Messi objectively the best of all time?
2. Is Messi more dominant relative to his peers than Maradona was dominant over his peers?

Given that, there's an argument to be made that the answer is yes to #1, but no to #2.

Same thing with the M2 and M2C. Maybe the M2C is objectively better than the OG M2. But, maybe the OG M2 was better positioned relative to peers for its time period.

Anyway, agree with you 100%. Both cars awesome, and the change from OG M2 to M2C is purely evolutionary.

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by norMcal

What a relief that CH thinks it's good, because if he didn't say so it would not bode (as) well for the M2C. (Sounds sarcastic, but I'm serious)

That being said, it does not sound like an earth shattering improvement over the standard M2. Nothing you couldn't achieve with some tuning on your own.

There won't be any earth shattering improvement unless the predecessor is a dud...488 Pista is not earth shattering improvement over the 488, 458 Speciale is not earth shattering improvement over the 458, GT3 RS is not...GT3...etc. But then you know which one people will get if money and availability is a non issue

The M2C platform with the S55 hardware in place allows for much more performance gain with a lot less money...stock fuelling and cooling system are capable to support up to 600whp (93) at least

[heli_ben]

It makes the top 5... :-)

[heli_ben]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

stock fuelling and cooling system are capable to support up to 600whp (93) at least

US horse power maybe, not real horse power lol

600whp is 705fwbhp!!!

[Craig335d]

Fiesta ST finishes above M2C.

[cptobvious]

Originally Posted by Craig335d

Fiesta ST finishes above M2C.

Well, that's it then. Time to get rid of the M2C and get my Fiesta ST.

M2C with 2,694 miles for sale. HS, DCT, Exec Pkg, 29U wheels, rear lip spoiler. Will sell for whatever price the Fiesta ST is, OBO.

[Davil]

See if this link works for you guys:
https://www.pressreader.com/australi...81513637077892

and this
https://www.pressreader.com/australi...82668983280516

[Spare°]

Thanks for posting. That's a whole lot of praise!

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by cntzl

From the Top Gear magazine:
"It does indeed enter corners with more bite, and the throttle response is palpably crisper. It even sounds more authentic than any M car of the last decade.

For my money, it's the best M since BMW went turbo - less bludgeon, more balance. Not so scary after all, even for a Warmduscher - 'individual who can't tolerate cold showers'."

[nidfix]

I am sure of what I read: I understood that the Fiesta made it to the top 5.
Did they actually choose the Fiesta as the car of the year !?

[Craig335d]

Originally Posted by nidfix

I am sure of what I read: I understood that the Fiesta made it to the top 5.
Did they actually choose the Fiesta as the car of the year !?

No. That was the Alpine, which comes as no surprise to me.

Been long enough now, M2C comes 5th.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by nidfix

I am sure of what I read: I understood that the Fiesta made it to the top 5.
Did they actually choose the Fiesta as the car of the year !?

It's certainly possible. I have a lot of fondness for the British, for many reasons that include liking British comedy better than American comedy and a fondness for British music, but I swear anything with a hatchback gets 10 extra points on whatever scoreboard they're using at any particular point. I don't think Chris Harris is immune to this national bit of oddness. Totally serious with this (well, almost totally). If the Fiesta ST had a trunk, it probably wouldn't have been invited to the competition at all.

[nidfix]

Originally Posted by Craig335d

No. That was the Alpine, which comes as no surprise to me.

Been long enough now, M2C comes 5th.

Thanks !

[nidfix]

Originally Posted by bri1042

It's certainly possible. I have a lot of fondness for the British, for many reasons that include liking British comedy better than American comedy and a fondness for British music, but I swear anything with a hatchback gets 10 extra points on whatever scoreboard they're using at any particular point. I don't think Chris Harris is immune to this national bit of oddness. Totally serious with this (well, almost totally). If the Fiesta ST had a trunk, it probably wouldn't have been invited to the competition at all.

I am not as definitive as you.
Evo crew seems to like Ford products. Therefore i am not surprise that one of their product comes quite high.
The same way that classifying across car classes means that you created your own criteria of which level, each class is expected to reach. I can hardly imagine that the "fun factor" in a supercar is lower than in an hot-hatch...once you put aside price, how often you can actually use it...

For sure is more an issue for the M2C face to the Fiesta than the McLaren even in that respect.

[No Boost]

Like the evolution from 1M to M2....less bludgeon, more bite (grip), so goes the same formula from M2 to M2C. Advances in technology and refinement make for a better track car. Does it make for a more fun street car, though?

[cptobvious]

Originally Posted by bri1042

It's certainly possible. I have a lot of fondness for the British, for many reasons that include liking British comedy better than American comedy and a fondness for British music, but I swear anything with a hatchback gets 10 extra points on whatever scoreboard they're using at any particular point. I don't think Chris Harris is immune to this national bit of oddness. Totally serious with this (well, almost totally). If the Fiesta ST had a trunk, it probably wouldn't have been invited to the competition at all.

Guys, guys, guys... I think I've figured it out.

Hot hatches are to the British as chicken feet are to the Chinese. Wait, wait, wait... hear me out. I'm ethnically Chinese, and every time I go to dim sum, the first thing I order is chicken feet. And every single time I've taken any non-Chinese buddy of mine, they always react thusly:

Buddy: That's F***ing disgusting!
Me: No, dude, it's delicious. I know it seems weird, but the sauce is incredible.
Buddy: No, those are the chicken's feet, and they been walking around in s*** all day
Me: Just try one. I promise, it's incredibly good
Buddy: No, I can't get over the fact that those have been through s***

So, here's how a conversation would go between any British person and any non-Brit with regard to hot hatches:

Non-Brit: That's F***ing disgusting!
Brit: No, mate, it's awesome. I know it looks weird, but the drive train is incredible.
Non-Brit: No, that's a hatchback, and it's a piece of s***
Brit: Just try it. I promise, it's incredibly good
Non-Brit: No, I can't get over the fact that it's a piece of s***

Boom! The world explained!

[bri1042]

Think of it this way: Based on the spoiler above, the M2C came in 5th. The 5th best performance car of the year, for a crap load less than most of the entrants, and without having to look at that horrid Ford interior or having to explain that "it's slow, but it FEELS so fun!". A base Miata is only a couple grand more if you that's what you want out of a car.

Fully negative comments:

I get that it's great that the Fiesta is so cheap and that it's tiny and tossable. But it's crap slow. 6.5 second 0-60 and a 15 second quarter mile. In this day and age, it may be fun but it isn't a performance car. I have no problem with disagreeing with the great Chris Harris and Top Gear magazine. If you can't keep up with a Camry, it isn't a performance car (unless your performance car is old, then it's fine since you would have trashed a Camry from the same year).

I'm not trashing Ford. The Focus RS IS a performance car.

But I don't think the Focus ST was, either. It wasn't fast enough compared to its contemporaries and it's handling was all the result of really good summer tires, and it still wasn't that good (somewhere out there is a test of the 15 or 16 ST on All Seasons and it was worse than the RSX-S I bought in 2001).

It's a performance version of a dog-slow city car, but in this day and age it doesn't count unless you consider a 14-second 0-60 Fiat Panda an acceptable choice as a daily driver (looking at you, James May...).

End of the day I think the British motoring press has had their perspective ruined by slow diesels. And the previously mentioned love of hatches.

[Craig335d]

I am British and also love hot hatches. It is a great time for cars like these, so many really good options.
The Renaultsport engineers that developed the Alpine A110 that placed first in this particular test have been creating amazing hot hatches for many years.
It is a great foundation for them to create a great sports car like the Alpine.

Performance is about so much more than straight line and top speed (a point often lost in American Muscle Cars). For me the most important part is about the feedback, damping and cornering speed.
Anyway, I’m pleased with the fact I’ve got a M2C on order, it looks like a fantastic all round package.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Stage IV

Like the evolution from 1M to M2....less bludgeon, more bite (grip), so goes the same formula from M2 to M2C. Advances in technology and refinement make for a better track car. Does it make for a more fun street car, though?

Well, yes it does, hate to say it, it's -even- better than OG M2 in terms of agility pointing in and that engine is way more powerful, this in combination with the readjusted LSD parameters/MDM and it's even more of a blast on the streets and through the bends.

Cheers
Robin

[nidfix]

Originally Posted by cptobvious

Guys, guys, guys... I think I've figured it out.

Hot hatches are to the British as chicken feet are to the Chinese. Wait, wait, wait... hear me out. I'm ethnically Chinese, and every time I go to dim sum, the first thing I order is chicken feet. And every single time I've taken any non-Chinese buddy of mine, they always react thusly:

Buddy: That's F***ing disgusting!
Me: No, dude, it's delicious. I know it seems weird, but the sauce is incredible.
Buddy: No, those are the chicken's feet, and they been walking around in s*** all day
Me: Just try one. I promise, it's incredibly good
Buddy: No, I can't get over the fact that those have been through s***

So, here's how a conversation would go between any British person and any non-Brit with regard to hot hatches:

Non-Brit: That's F***ing disgusting!
Brit: No, mate, it's awesome. I know it looks weird, but the drive train is incredible.
Non-Brit: No, that's a hatchback, and it's a piece of s***
Brit: Just try it. I promise, it's incredibly good
Non-Brit: No, I can't get over the fact that it's a piece of s***

Boom! The world explained!

Hot-hatches are loved elsewhere than UK.
In fact they are loved almost everywhere in Europe as far as I know.

However it is still a bit weird that a Fiesta ST comes ahead of an M2C.
Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against Ford or a Fiesta, but even from a naming convention an "ST" is not expected to be a proper sport car, rather a " bit sporty taste", as opposed to an M2C.

I did not drive the ST so I don't know. May be Ford managed to instill into his "not so sporty" model more soul that Bmw in one of his most dedicated sport car...