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      12-14-2018, 08:14 PM   #1
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Cantrell Motorsport in Bellevue, WA installed Ground Control camber plates and set my car up with an aggressive but still streetable alignment.

-2.8° at the front
-1.8° at the rear

Interesting that BMW gave the car so little negative camber from the factory, just -1°

FYI M2C and OGM2 Ground Control camber plates are slightly different, see pictures below. M2C is the set with the additional aluminum plate resting on bubble wrap.
Ground Control initially sent the wrong plates but awesome customer service had the replacement set arrive in 2 days!
Attached Images
   
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      12-15-2018, 03:42 AM   #2
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To be expected given the way the different strut braces fit on each model.
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      12-17-2018, 03:42 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM2C View Post
Cantrell Motorsport in Bellevue, WA installed Ground Control camber plates and set my car up with an aggressive but still streetable alignment.

-2.8° at the front
-1.8° at the rear

Interesting that BMW gave the car so little negative camber from the factory, just -1°
FWIW for my pre-LCI M2 I choose to use oem parts to gain added front camber c/w MP coilovers + OEM front -30min camber correction hubs.

Went from front camber / toe of -1.5 camber and toe-in -0deg 6' - MPerf coilovers only - to -2 deg & toe in -0deg 2' & 3' MPerf coilovers + camber correction hubs.

Extra camber is visually noticeable - maybe hard to see in the attached photos but by comparison rear camber is at circa -1.75deg

NSF


OSF


IMHO -2deg is probably max useable as DD wo resulting in excessive, uneven tyre wear and contact patch that keeps braking performance consistent. Works well too on the 5-6 TD's I do per year.

BP
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      12-18-2018, 02:32 PM   #4
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Make sure you select 5 bolt. I completely ignored that option box but luckily they were smart enough to block me from ordering once I selected M2C from the following box.
Made me think they were out of stock but in fact they are in stock.

Also - if you add them to stock suspension and decide to move to MCS or something else they can be adapted to fit the different spring diameter from stock. (I didn't want to wait until I swapped suspension to get the plates).
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      12-19-2018, 12:28 PM   #5
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2.8 is steep for street use, but go for it. I'm running Vorschlag with -2.0 and Ohlin R/T
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      12-19-2018, 07:43 PM   #6
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Yeah, I back off to -1.8 for street. -3.1 for track.
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      12-19-2018, 09:49 PM   #7
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By aggressive I mean I go to the track frequently, I haven't run a car with less than -2.5° of camber in years
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      12-20-2018, 07:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Yeah, I back off to -1.8 for street. -3.1 for track.
Do you adjust yr toe each time swapping between street & track then back again ?

Changing camber by 50%+ will have a marked impact on toe [& hence thrust] angles
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      12-20-2018, 07:54 AM   #9
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I’m wondering this too, my next mod is a dedicated autocross set of square wheels and tires and want to go with camber plates, however she’s also my daily, so I’ll need to go back and forth on camber settings.
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      12-20-2018, 08:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Do you adjust yr toe each time swapping between street & track then back again ?

Changing camber by 50%+ will have a marked impact on toe [& hence thrust] angles
Yeah.

Track- Front: -3.1, 0.04 total toe in. Rear: -2.0, 0.30 total toe in
Street- Front: -1.8, 0.08 total toe in. Rear: -1.7, 0.30 total toe in

I run the track settings on the street in between events, and switch to street full time in the off season for much less bump steer & tramlining.

Also, I added the tiny bit of toe in for my Track settings, vs zero toe, bc the car tramlined pretty badly on the street in between events.
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      12-20-2018, 08:26 AM   #11
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If you do frequent track days (12+ per year) do not worry about the inner tire wear at all, it's a complete none issue because a single event will wear more than you can possibly do on the street in 3 months.
If you have dedicated street wheels/tires then just accept your going to see 30%-50% less life out of the fronts - we aren't talking big money here, 2 front tires are ~$500 so you might spend a few hundred a little sooner than you otherwise would..so? you spent a a lot more buying dedicated track wheels and tires right? also think about the life of your track tires, you don't want to be using the outside shoulder or you're gonna be replacing your track tires every 3-4 events.

if you're worried about tramlining then just make sure you get your toe set to as close to zero as possible and you're going to be fine.
Braking performance in a straight line on the street is not noticeable, on the track eh perhaps slightly but the increased cornering ability is huge on both street and track.

The most noticeable thing is more the visual aspect, the top of the wheel is more recessed. To me I like it because I associate it with performance, but I can totally see how it's unappealing to most folks, particularly the "hella flush" crew
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      12-20-2018, 09:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Yeah.

Track- Front: -3.1, 0.04 total toe in. Rear: -2.0, 0.30 total toe in
Street- Front: -1.8, 0.08 total toe in. Rear: -1.7, 0.30 total toe in

I run the track settings on the street in between events, and switch to street full time in the off season for much less bump steer & tramlining.

Also, I added the tiny bit of toe in for my Track settings, vs zero toe, bc the car tramlined pretty badly on the street in between events.
Wow - that's a lot of toe-in at the back - I guess you must drive a lot of canyon roads and or twisty circuits ?

FWIW my M2 alignment for DD/TD's is

F -2deg camber, toe-in / side L&R is <-0.05 & R -1.75deg camber, toe-in / side L&R is >-0.05 & <-0.1.

Might up rear toe-in towards -0.15 based on your settings above.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM2C View Post
The most noticeable thing is more the visual aspect, the top of the wheel is more recessed. To me I like it because I associate it with performance, but I can totally see how it's unappealing to most folks, particularly the "hella flush" crew
I agree - the tuck at the top looks good but like most things, moderation required as too much camber can make it look it sh!t

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      12-20-2018, 09:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Wow - that's a lot of toe-in at the back - I guess you must drive a lot of canyon roads and or twisty circuits ?

FWIW my M2 alignment for DD/TD's is

F -2deg camber, toe-in / side L&R is <-0.05 & R -1.75deg camber, toe-in / side L&R is >-0.05 & <-0.1.

Might up rear toe-in towards -0.15 based on your settings above.....



I agree - the tuck at the top looks good but like most things, moderation required as too much camber can make it look it sh!t


This is an interesting post, you guys are running toe in both front and rear?
None of you are mentioning what your caster is?

Can you adjust caster with camber plates? Ie Dinan, Groubd Control etc?
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      12-20-2018, 09:51 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OGM2C View Post
If you do frequent track days (12+ per year) do not worry about the inner tire wear at all, it's a complete none issue because a single event will wear more than you can possibly do on the street in 3 months.
If you have dedicated street wheels/tires then just accept your going to see 30%-50% less life out of the fronts - we aren't talking big money here, 2 front tires are ~$500 so you might spend a few hundred a little sooner than you otherwise would..so? you spent a a lot more buying dedicated track wheels and tires right? also think about the life of your track tires, you don't want to be using the outside shoulder or you're gonna be replacing your track tires every 3-4 events.

if you're worried about tramlining then just make sure you get your toe set to as close to zero as possible and you're going to be fine.
Braking performance in a straight line on the street is not noticeable, on the track eh perhaps slightly but the increased cornering ability is huge on both street and track.

The most noticeable thing is more the visual aspect, the top of the wheel is more recessed. To me I like it because I associate it with performance, but I can totally see how it's unappealing to most folks, particularly the "hella flush" crew
Well said.

After 6k miles and 5 track days on nearly identical alignment settings to the OP’s (also done by Cantrell, so probably not a coincidence), the stock Contis were done when I switched over to winter tires this fall but worn pretty evenly. Camber plates went on after the break in service and the first track day.

This appears to be a good compromise so far, where it’s still streetable, but won’t destroy a set of tires in a track weekend. I might wish for a bit more camber on track, and a bit less on the street when I switch to dedicated wheels/tires for each purpose in 2019, but the extended track tire life should more than offset the cost of decreased street tire life.
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      12-20-2018, 10:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowfax028 View Post
This is an interesting post, you guys are running toe in both front and rear?
None of you are mentioning what your caster is?

Can you adjust caster with camber plates? Ie Dinan, Groubd Control etc?
Can’t adjust caster, AFAIK.

The tiny bit of front toe helps a lot on the street and with high speed stability on track. I didn’t really notice any impact to turn in or tire wear.

In the rear, I’ve tried less toe in, but came back to 0.30 total. It makes the rear end much more stable when getting on the gas coming out of corners, and the car feels really planted.

I’m running the Dinan coilovers with a 20mm drop in the rear and 14mm drop in the front. Your suspension setup may want slightly different alignment settings.
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      12-20-2018, 11:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
FWIW for my pre-LCI M2 I choose to use oem parts to gain added front camber c/w MP coilovers + OEM front -30min camber correction hubs.

Went from front camber / toe of -1.5 camber and toe-in -0deg 6' - MPerf coilovers only - to -2 deg & toe in -0deg 2' & 3' MPerf coilovers + camber correction hubs.

Extra camber is visually noticeable - maybe hard to see in the attached photos but by comparison rear camber is at circa -1.75deg

NSF


OSF


IMHO -2deg is probably max useable as DD wo resulting in excessive, uneven tyre wear and contact patch that keeps braking performance consistent. Works well too on the 5-6 TD's I do per year.

BP
Camber isn't really what wears tires, it's toe. I ran -2.75 front and still had pretty even wear with 0 toe.
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      12-21-2018, 02:49 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
Camber isn't really what wears tires, it's toe. I ran -2.75 front and still had pretty even wear with 0 toe.
Agreed [hence why I commented above on large rear toe-in] and good to know that -2.75 gives you even wear
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      12-21-2018, 04:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Agreed [hence why I commented above on large rear toe-in] and good to know that -2.75 gives you even wear
I wouldn't call it completely even but it's not going to prematurely wear your tires where the insides are dead and middle/outsides still have 50+% life
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      02-10-2019, 10:12 PM   #19
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Quick question about camber plates. I've got a new M2C and I'm debating on putting on the Ground Control camber plates. My car is a daily driver with about 5-6 track days a year. Do the camber plates affect drivability and ride quality on the street? I wouldn't think so but just double checking.
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      02-11-2019, 08:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cycle Pilot View Post
Quick question about camber plates. I've got a new M2C and I'm debating on putting on the Ground Control camber plates. My car is a daily driver with about 5-6 track days a year. Do the camber plates affect drivability and ride quality on the street? I wouldn't think so but just double checking.
I didnt notice a difference. The tires i put on though made a significant difference in NVH (Noise/Vibration/Harshness) to the ride. Drives on rails.

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      05-14-2020, 09:15 PM   #21
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M2C camber plates and track alignment

Bringing this thread back... looking to see if any minds have changed after running your alignment settings for a while.

I'm getting GC plates installed next week. M2C with stock suspension. Driven <5kmiles/yr on street PSSs and 6-8 track days per year on RE71R 255/275.

From reading around here, was planning on front somewhere in the -2.75 to -3.0 range and zero toe. Is this still the consensus for my expected street v. track use?

Also, really lost on what to do with rear. Sounds like -1.8 and zero toe is ok for my limited street use?

Fwiw, my next track days will be at Sebring and Barber.

I appreciate any input.
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      05-14-2020, 10:27 PM   #22
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Your camber up front is perfect for a 200 tire with zero toe.

As for the rear my general rule is a 1 degree difference front to rear with a little toe in as well.

So 2.8F then 1.8R, or 3.0F 2.0R

Since your running the stock suspension with progressive springs I'd run 2.8/1.8.

If you ever move up to C/O's and r compounds you will want 3.2-3.6F and 2.2 to 2.4 max rear. Tough to give exact #s w/o knowing spring rates, etc..
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