[1mm2]

Originally Posted by Poochie

This is a move to keep their shareholders happy, with no real benefit to consumers except maybe with a shorter delivery time to the US.

If quality remains the same and doesn't impact demand it's all good...

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by 1mm2

If quality remains the same and doesn't impact demand it's all good...

It probably would remain the same, I mean any human being can be trained to properly work a conveyor belt or turn a screw but my grievances is with the loss of heritage not actual manpower, as irrational as it sounds.

Love that "Greed is Good" speech, I rewatch it ever so often and apparently so does BMW corporate..

[AngryBaby]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

California wines are shit compared to French wine. Sorry

Not always true over the past decade+

[1mm2]

Originally Posted by Poochie

It probably would remain the same, I mean any human being can be trained to properly work a conveyor belt or turn a screw but my grievances is with the loss of heritage not actual manpower, as irrational as it sounds.

Doesn't sound irrational to me as I am thinking the same way.

Unfortunately one must be competitive to innovate.

"sometimes to create one must first destroy..."

[dtmurf]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

I went with my father to Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen for the pickup of his 981 Boxster back in 2013, had an awesome time. Although interestingly, while Zuffenhausen (911 and Cayman/Boxster are made there) offers factory tours, the other location Leipzig (where the Cayenne, Macan and Panamera are made), offer a chance to drive a similarly spec-ed vehicle (to the one you purchased) on their on-site track. I'm surprised they don't have that in Zuffenhausen for their actual sports cars!

They don't have enough room in Zuffenhausen for the factory let alone a track!

[Al1969]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Open your mind. Pay respect.

M for Mexican car

Thats weird viewed by Swiss M fans... really weird

Hybrid, G80 grill, now Mexican M2 ... BMW Management is destroying the brand

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Al1969

M for Mexican car

Thats weird viewed by Swiss M fans... really weird

Hybrid, G80 grill, now Mexican M2 ... BMW Management is destroying the brand

Hybrid? Not every car will be a hybrid, and I prefer them to keep up with their competitors technically and also from a regulatory perspective.

The grille, you may have a point.

Mexican production? Not a problem. Did you have a problem with BMWs produced in South Africa or South Carolina? How about the Z4 built by Magna? The reality is that the build quality of the cars from South Carolina is indistinguishable to the German built models. How can that be when it's built by lazy Americans? It's almost like BMW knows how to run a manufacturing business and ensure consistent quality across multiple sites...

You know, so many people blamed the poor quality of American cars on American workers, but in reality the failure is always a failure of management, process, and/or design-for-manufacturability. All those German workers must be why S54, S65, and S85 engines have consistent rod bearing problems and S55 spins crank hubs.

Look at Tesla, they have trouble putting cars together right now without embarrassing defects, but I doubt their workers are any less competent than those BMW employs in South Carolina. It's an organizational failure.

[Poochie]

I guess they have a new letter VIN to identify the "Plant of Manufacture" assembled in Mexico.

[BMWGirlFL]

https://vpic.nhtsa.dot.gov/mid/home/...c-b37d68f7170e

[Poochie]

The 3 series in production in the San Luis Potosí Plant in Mexico:

Originally Posted by Artemis

The operation looks identical to the SC & German sites.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Disagree. Why did the guys from Harry's razors buy an old German factory during their start up and then advertise their razors are MADE IN Germany? They sure as hell didn't say their razors are German designed

How about our extensive set of Wusthof cutlery. German designed. Made in China I think not.

It doesn't even have to be about Germany. I can name numerous products where people would expect said product to be DESIGNED AND MANUFACTURED in country.

Sorry. It cheapens the product and not in good way.

Because Harry's are marketing to stupid people, or they got a really good deal?

Who knows? I have no experience with their crappy razors, other than a quick Google search which indicates they are lower quality than Gillette. Their own marketing text says German engineered also, btw. I am just a tiny bit sure that Gillette-style razor blade cartridges are almost entirely made by machine. Those German robots sure are fastidious compared to others. Do you think your iPhone would have tighter tolerances if manufactured in Stuttgart?

Some of the most complex manufacturing in the world goes on right now in China. It is the cumulative result of hundreds of thousands of man hours of work by process engineers. Humans, on the whole, cannot be trusted to do consistent work unless it's trivial.

The idea that BMW cannot control the quality of a car being produced in Mexico is absurd. If anything, it could be one of their better facilities because it's 100% brand new. If you want to say that it's a shame that BMW is giving this work to Mexican workers rather than their own native German workers, then that's completely different and valid.

There are a lot of examples of moving manufacturing elsewhere resulting in a lower quality product, but that's not just because of the location or the quality of employees. Most of that stuff is contracted out or done by companies that don't have a commitment to quality.

[Al1969]

Originally Posted by chris719

Because Harry's are marketing to stupid people, or they got a really good deal?

Who knows? I have no experience with their crappy razors, other than a quick Google search which indicates they are lower quality than Gillette. Their own marketing text says German engineered also, btw. I am just a tiny bit sure that Gillette-style razor blade cartridges are almost entirely made by machine. Those German robots sure are fastidious compared to others. Do you think your iPhone would have tighter tolerances if manufactured in Stuttgart?

Some of the most complex manufacturing in the world goes on right now in China. It is the cumulative result of hundreds of thousands of man hours of work by process engineers. Humans, on the whole, cannot be trusted to do consistent work unless it's trivial.

The idea that BMW cannot control the quality of a car being produced in Mexico is absurd. If anything, it could be one of their better facilities because it's 100% brand new. If you want to say that it's a shame that BMW is giving this work to Mexican workers rather than their own native German workers, then that's completely different and valid.

To build mass products around the World is a reality now and no problem if X3/5 cars are built in US or even Mexico
The issue of having one of the M model built far away from the engineering center is in my view a stupid decision, like Alpina or AMG, the successful stories of Motorsport premium cars is to rather concentrate such high performance line of products in a single place, where engineering is combined with hand made and passion of excellence.

But the feeling is that we are just stupid buyers for the current BMW Mgmt, they trust its enough to put their products in front of us together with nice pictures and stories, that will be enough to keep alive the M legend whatever is the manufacturing process/location.
Well that is a risky route, because the M2 is part of the M family...
M town ... M what?

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Al1969

To build mass products around the World is a reality now and no problem if X3/5 cars are built in US or even Mexico
The issue of having one of the M model built far away from the engineering center is in my view a stupid decision, like Alpina or AMG, the successful stories of Motorsport premium cars is to rather concentrate such high performance line of products in a single place, where engineering is combined with hand made and passion of excellence.

But the feeling is that we are just stupid buyers for the current BMW Mgmt, they trust its enough to put their products in front of us together with nice pictures and stories, that will be enough to keep alive the M legend whatever is the manufacturing process/location.
Well that is a risky route, because the M2 is part of the M family...
M town ... M what?

BMW has already built Z4M and now X3M/X4M outside of Germany. The engines and transmissions are built in Germany and shipped to the factories. The rest of the car is basically standard.

The reality is you don't want a human building anything if you can manage it. The magic is in the design, not the manufacturing. There are a lot of engineers paid a lot of money to make it so that any monkey with opposable thumbs can build your car.'

Mercedes AMG and the Nissan GT-R team liked to brag about hand-built engines. It sounds charming, but do we really want an engine built by someone who was distracted by personal problems that day?

[J-RO]

Originally Posted by chris719

Hybrid? Not every car will be a hybrid, and I prefer them to keep up with their competitors technically and also from a regulatory perspective.

The grille, you may have a point.

Mexican production? Not a problem. Did you have a problem with BMWs produced in South Africa or South Carolina? How about the Z4 built by Magna? The reality is that the build quality of the cars from South Carolina is indistinguishable to the German built models. How can that be when it's built by lazy Americans? It's almost like BMW knows how to run a manufacturing business and ensure consistent quality across multiple sites...

You know, so many people blamed the poor quality of American cars on American workers, but in reality the failure is always a failure of management, process, and/or design-for-manufacturability. All those German workers must be why S54, S65, and S85 engines have consistent rod bearing problems and S55 spins crank hubs.

Look at Tesla, they have trouble putting cars together right now without embarrassing defects, but I doubt their workers are any less competent than those BMW employs in South Carolina. It's an organizational failure.

This maybe an exception but I can state that my 4 series built in Germany is a lot tighter than my wife’s X3 built in South Carolina.

[SAMM3Y]

[amancuso]

I've never seen such a nonsensical thread.

[J-RO]

Originally Posted by amancuso

I've never seen such a nonsensical thread.

If they post it they will come.

[pz619]

Was going to stay out of this, but the absurdity honestly compels me to write a bit about this.

The quality isn’t likely to be any worse or better than the other global manufacturing facilities BMW has. The quality and success of this plant has far more to do with the standard work and processes that BMW puts in place versus the nationality of the workers. The only question is can BMW provide enough training and do it effectively enough that initial plant quality doesn’t suffer. Or more succinctly put, can they train up their staff fast enough to match the quality from other plants. Honestly, I’m not worried. It’s not like BMW is so siloed as an organization that one plant operates from a completely different set of standards than another. Country of manufacturing origin isn’t the be all to end all. Look at some of the things that came out of the US? No one is saying Tesla’s quality is amazing and that’s in a pretty decent area in terms of manufacturing plants. Yet I think we’re all pretty much ok with Spartanburg. The companies knowledge of manufacturing as a whole is far more important than assembly point.

Second, this is assembly more than manufacturing from a human perspective. Robots do most of the welding, painting, etc. Humans do some of the other tasks that require some more articulation. Virtually all of it double checked using computer assisted QA. Finally, where do you think the components from the car is generally coming from? I’m not talking about what the window sticker says. Fun fact: you order circuit boards from China and put that in another component that “transforms” the part (US Custom’s words, not mine) and all of the sudden you can say its a US part. This applies to most of the world as well. The car you are driving TODAY is far more “foreign” than you realize.

Source: Most of my career has been spent in global manufacturing processes.

[Tag]

The focus of this thread should be that there will be a next generation M2! Great news considering BMW recently announced current production vehicles that will be getting axed. You'd think people would be celebrating that a new M2 is in the works. Instead the focus is on where the car is being built.

Some people don't know what they have until it's gone. Grow up.

"The rear-wheel-drive 1 Series, the 2 Series, and lower-trim 3 Series variants contribute very little if anything at all to the bottom line, and the company has established a list of doomed models. In addition to the three-door 1 Series, 2 Series Gran Tourer, and 3 Series GT, tombstones are being chiseled for the 2 Series convertible, standard-wheelbase 7 Series, Z4 replacement (sorry, Toyota), and both two-door 8 Series variants."

Source: Automobile: What’s Going on at BMW? Many Future/Current Cars Are Being Axed

[Al1969]

Originally Posted by Tag

The focus of this thread should be that there will be a next generation M2! Great news considering BMW recently announced current production vehicles that will be getting axed. You'd think people would be celebrating that a new M2 is in the works. Instead the focus is on where the car is being built.

Some people don't know what they have until it's gone. Grow up.

"The rear-wheel-drive 1 Series, the 2 Series, and lower-trim 3 Series variants contribute very little if anything at all to the bottom line, and the company has established a list of doomed models. In addition to the three-door 1 Series, 2 Series Gran Tourer, and 3 Series GT, tombstones are being chiseled for the 2 Series convertible, standard-wheelbase 7 Series, Z4 replacement (sorry, Toyota), and both two-door 8 Series variants."

Source: Automobile: What’s Going on at BMW? Many Future/Current Cars Are Being Axed

Thought it was M / M2 forum
Announcing M2 production in Mexico, this is where the non-sense comes from, can be that some readers don’t perceive the potential M brand damage, maybe they are not really M fans, or maybe simply part of the decision process

M town?

[1mm2]

Originally Posted by amancuso

I've never seen such a nonsensical thread.

You don't get out much do you...

[BMWGirlFL]

Originally Posted by Tag

The focus of this thread should be that there will be a next generation M2! Great news considering BMW recently announced current production vehicles that will be getting axed. You'd think people would be celebrating that a new M2 is in the works. Instead the focus is on where the car is being built.

Thank you for making OP's point!!