[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by Dopeslope

I honesly believe that in alot of modern things, certain components are engineered to fail

Seriously? No really seriously?

[Firaxis]

Originally Posted by Peter_R

Agreed. It is Italian and the electrics are really cr@p.

People need to move out of the 80's, I had a Giulietta so reliable it was a little dull.. Although you can't buy them in the US (yet) and a 156 that did 230,000 Miles. It was still going, I just wanted something else..

I probably wouldn't own a modern Beemer out of warranty, especially a diesel a lot of expensive stuff to go kaput. But that goes for any car packed with tons of tech..

[Dopeslope]

Originally Posted by Peter_R

Seriously? No really seriously?

Cant tell if serious ???

Engineered to have a lifespan.... ???

Make you buy a new one .... ???

[Sky_Blue]

Originally Posted by Dopeslope

Cant tell if serious ???

Engineered to have a lifespan.... ???

Make you buy a new one .... ???

[04gto]

I have owned 25 cars and trucks (not counting the ones I bought just to flip). Nissan/Datsun, Toyota, Mazda, Chevy, Ford, Pontiac, Mercedes, GMC, Lincoln, VW, Honda, Jeep, BMW and others. Thankfully I have only had to replace one engine and no transmissions. A few cars have had a lot of little things go wrong (Datsun 260z) and some, almost no problems, no matter how small. The top 5 most reliable? 1- 1993 Honda Civic 250k plus miles when sold 2- 1995 Chevy S-10 260k plus miles when sold 3- 1998 Chevy Astro Van 310k miles when sold 4- 2003 Ford F250 130k when sold 5- 2003 Pontiac Vibe GT Only 60k when sold but ZERO issues. What car or truck has had the most issues, big or small? After my Datsun 260z, one of my current cars has had the most little things break or malfunction. My "German engineered" 2008 BMW 335i that I have owned for 13 months. And before anybody says it is because I "modded" it, several things went wrong before I ever turned a single torx fastener on it. And almost none of them issues can be associated with my mods.

Things like:
1- Vacuum lines bursting (car is only 7 years old and I have owned cars 30 years older that never had this problem) (44k miles)
2- LPFP sensor (60k)
3- LPFP R.I.P. (55k)
4- Passenger mirror ghost adjustment (42k)
5- Window washer pump (51k)
6- Mechatronic (59k)
7- Windshield top rubber gasket (60k)
8- Vanos solinoids (65k)
9- Front dome light sometimes takes a vacation
10- Valve cover gasket (69k)
WHEW!

And these are things I fixed on top of all the regular maintenance I performed.

Having said all that, BMW's are nowhere near as reliable as they should be, (most cars are more reliable, check Consumer Reports) but I did my research before I bought this car and planned accordingly. I still LOVE this car. I think it is one of the very best looking sedans ever made. And having now driven several newer BMW's (2014 M6 and 2014 335i) It is still the best all around driving BMW, just my opinion.

[viperdoc]

I only used to have Japanese cars because they were reliable....mainly Hondas. My 1993 civic served me well while in college, and the repairs to the radiator and brakes were cheap. But it drove like a cheap car. I stayed with Honda and then went to Nissan over the next many years, with one infiniti in there too. They all performed flawlessly, from a reliability standpoint. But I realized I never kept any of those cars long enough for major stuff to go wrong....I would get rid of cars anywhere between 4-5 year mark. So it never mattered that they were reliable, as I never kept them long enough to see that benefit.

My last car was a 2013 Lexus RX F sport....what a pile of junk. Great from a reliability standpoint (of course it was only 18 months old when I got rid of it), but that was actually the problem....it RELIABLY drove like it was broken. Throttle lag, horrible handling, harsh ride, and very poor transmission mapping which made the car feel like the engine would die when you tried to accelerate...and the Lexus techs said that was the way it was designed. Then.... I drove the F15 X5 and fell in love. I purchased the extended warranty that will take me to 6 year/100K miles. If I keep it until that expires, it will be the longest I will have kept a car in the last 20 years. But once it expires, I will trade it in for another X5, this time with the M sport package But I have not questioned my decision once to lose money on the lexus for the BMW. There is simply no comparison in driveability and enjoyment.

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by 04gto

I have owned 25 cars and trucks (not counting the ones I bought just to flip). Nissan/Datsun, Toyota, Mazda, Chevy, Ford, Pontiac, Mercedes, GMC, Lincoln, VW, Honda, Jeep, BMW and others. Thankfully I have only had to replace one engine and no transmissions. A few cars have had a lot of little things go wrong (Datsun 260z) and some, almost no problems, no matter how small. The top 5 most reliable? 1- 1993 Honda Civic 250k plus miles when sold 2- 1995 Chevy S-10 260k plus miles when sold 3- 1998 Chevy Astro Van 310k miles when sold 4- 2003 Ford F250 130k when sold 5- 2003 Pontiac Vibe GT Only 60k when sold but ZERO issues. What car or truck has had the most issues, big or small? After my Datsun 260z, one of my current cars has had the most little things break or malfunction. My "German engineered" 2008 BMW 335i that I have owned for 13 months. And before anybody says it is because I "modded" it, several things went wrong before I ever turned a single torx fastener on it. And almost none of them issues can be associated with my mods.

Things like:
1- Vacuum lines bursting (car is only 7 years old and I have owned cars 30 years older that never had this problem) (44k miles)
2- LPFP sensor (60k)
3- LPFP R.I.P. (55k)
4- Passenger mirror ghost adjustment (42k)
5- Window washer pump (51k)
6- Mechatronic (59k)
7- Windshield top rubber gasket (60k)
8- Vanos solinoids (65k)
9- Front dome light sometimes takes a vacation
10- Valve cover gasket (69k)
WHEW!

And these are things I fixed on top of all the regular maintenance I performed.

Having said all that, BMW's are nowhere near as reliable as they should be, (most cars are more reliable, check Consumer Reports) but I did my research before I bought this car and planned accordingly. I still LOVE this car. I think it is one of the very best looking sedans ever made. And having now driven several newer BMW's (2014 M6 and 2014 335i) It is still the best all around driving BMW, just my opinion.

This is kinda the same things I have went through, My G35 was flawless but I was bored. I love my BMW, If they could nail the reliability it would be perfect.

In today's day and age is it that hard to fix the reliability? If Honda can build a fun and high revving S2000 ( 240HP from 2.0liters that revs 9000 RPM ) thats just as reliable as a boring accord why cant BMW? I dont think they really care to make it that reliable..

[-BEASTMW-]

Originally Posted by QUiKSR20

This is kinda the same things I have went through, My G35 was flawless but I was bored. I love my BMW, If they could nail the reliability it would be perfect.

In today's day and age is it that hard to fix the reliability? If Honda can build a fun and high revving S2000 ( 240HP from 2.0liters that revs 9000 RPM ) thats just as reliable as a boring accord why cant BMW? I dont think they really care to make it that reliable..

Truth. I beat the crap out of my S2k and never expect it to need anything. And it never does. I guess I do have to bleed the clutch every year or so (not a full bleed - syringe in the MC reservoir a few times is good enough) because the fluid gets dirty...

Finding myself in the market for an E90 M3, I feel like it's the type of car I could own for a very long time... except that because it's a BMW, I wouldn't feel comfortable owning it out of warranty. Did that with my E39 M5, but too many fairly common 4-figure (or even 5-figure) bills with the E90.

[Dopeslope]

Originally Posted by Sky_Blue

If your going to take the piss atleast have the decency to tell me what is so funny ?

[New2Roundel]

Originally Posted by -BEASTMW-

Finding myself in the market for an E90 M3, I feel like it's the type of car I could own for a very long time... except that because it's a BMW, I wouldn't feel comfortable owning it out of warranty. Did that with my E39 M5, but too many fairly common 4-figure (or even 5-figure) bills with the E90.

I think a lot of the issues with modern BMWs really has to do with the turbo charged engines. I would never recommend a turbo-powered BMW to anyone looking for something fairly reliable. Which at this point, means that I wouldn't recommend any current BMW except for the i-series vehicles. This isn't limited to BMW, mind you. I had a mkV GTI and although it wasn't a horrible ownership experience, it was in the shop far more than it should have been. In contrast, I had a '12 Mustang GT that was in the shop 3 times over 3.5 yrs--I did that in a year with the GTI.

I have an e92 M3 that I bought a few month ago. It's been a great car. I had one CEL about a week after I got it and after I had it fixed, it's been problem free for the last 6 months. I would venture to say it's among the most reliable and sturdy modern BMWs around. If you go to internet forums for any car, it will feel like the sky is falling, but the reality for most owners is nothing like that. For example, my mustang had the Ford-Getrag MT-82 transmission that was a HUGE source of controversy. I never had a single problem with the transmission. In fact, I liked the shifter feel.

[04gto]

BMW's have never been a brand with a reputation for reliability. BMW has actually improved from a mechanical reliability standpoint recently, however the electronics and switches have always been suspect. EVERY SINGLE person I have ever known to own a BMW has complained about numerous little issues. My employer had a brand new (14 months old) 1988 E30 325i and you would have thought it was 15 years old with all the little problems. The two most annoying were first, the front power window switches went out and were replaced twice in 4 years. Second it had a strange intermittent overheating issue that the dealer was never able to fix, causing constant random warning lights. So he was afraid to drive his beautiful new car anywhere. A close friend of mine purchased a brand new Bangle era 745i (2003 I think) for three years and it was a pile of garbage. One problem after another. Just look on the forums and pick any problem that any 2003 745i ever had and his car had it. Transmission went out at 45k miles. Many oil leaks. Some kind of camshaft sensor issue that went out 2 weeks after his warranty expired. Electronics were always going MIA. And these are just the problems that personally witnessed. After some years, he tried "staying ahead" of the problems by replacing things that were known to be a problem before they even broke. When that method failed miserably he just gave up and died a broken failure of a man.


Just kidding! He sold that POS and only drives Honda Accord coupes now.

[Sky_Blue]

Originally Posted by Dopeslope

I honesly believe that in alot of modern things, certain components are engineered to fail

Or it could be as simple as cost cutting.....

But anyway, Ive only had my bmw a few months and tbh I was initially after an audi........ My car was 200 miles away and there and back I saw 8 Audis on the hard sholder all newish models
2 weeks later I took my brother to look at new car for him and we saw 4 audis on the hard shoulder - we saw 1 bmw

Im glad I got a Beemer

The one BMW that we saw went in style though....vert top stuck down and it was absolutely p*ssing it down, poor guy was on the verge in shorts and T-shirt soaked

Are you sure about those figures? Twelve Audi's in how many miles?

[Robert]

People are entitled to their opinions and because opinions differ don't mean commenters are trashing it. Overall European cars are less reliable, one should know that before buying into it. Just nod and agree and still drive what you like to drive

[Dopeslope]

Originally Posted by Sky_Blue

Are you sure about those figures? Twelve Audi's in how many miles?

Yes very sure and very happy to be honest.

816 miles in two trips to view 3 cars

Still waiting for what is so funny ?

[Wolfgang Schneiderhan]

My BMW has a lot of mechanical problems. Sometimes I wonder if it was the right decision -- until I get inside and drive it -- and cry tears of joy from how well it performs. The combination of handling, acceleration and braking is almost magical.

On the other hand my wife drives a Honda CRV which has exactly "zero" maintenance issues aside from the usual consumables like tires and brakes. When I drive it, it feels like a lifeless, soulless box on wheels that dispenses mediocrity with Japanese precision. It lumbers down the road with absolute contempt for joy and happiness, and leaves a trail of despair in its wake.

Maintenance costs aside, I know which car I would rather be driving.

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by Wolfgang Schneiderhan

My BMW has a lot of mechanical problems. Sometimes I wonder if it was the right decision -- until I get inside and drive it -- and cry tears of joy from how well it performs. The combination of handling, acceleration and braking is almost magical.

On the other hand my wife drives a Honda CRV which has exactly "zero" maintenance issues aside from the usual consumables like tires and brakes. When I drive it, it feels like a lifeless, soulless box on wheels that dispenses mediocrity with Japanese precision. It lumbers down the road with absolute contempt for joy and happiness, and leaves a trail of despair in its wake.

Maintenance costs aside, I know which car I would rather be driving.

So apply the reliability of your crv to the BMW how much better could it be? And why isnt it?

CRV's serve their purpose but wont give you that smile your ( our ) BMW's will give us.. But an S2000 will, so why cant BMW make us that much happier and just dedicate some time to reliability..
Its obvious the boring cars are easy to make reliable but their fun models are just as reliable whether turbo or high revving 8k + RPM they do not skip a beat.

BMW could go buy a Honda Nissan Toyota whatever cars and study them in an out and find out why they are so reliable and apply the same to the BMW's

BMW Style + Driving Dynamics + FULL Reliability = a huge win for consumers and brand perception.

I find it hard to believe in this day and age why they cannot do this, Hyundai figured it out I would think BMW could.

[ny325]

Its the " Gong " that scares me everytime it goes off. First thing that comes to mind is, what do I need to fix now? How much is it going to cost? Why do I keep this car? I think I might go Honda Accord Sport.

[PoorLurker]

Never understood when people don't realize that cars that cost three times as much will have repairs bills three times as much.

Assume $60k loan. Person A is paying $1,000/mo
Assume $20k loan. Person B is paying $333/mo

Person B pays $40 for an oil change. Person A pays $120 for an oil change.

Car is paid off? Well Person A, "saves" $12k per year while person B "saves" $3,996/yr by not "paying" for their car any longer.

So, if something happens to Person A's car and it costs $6,000 (6 months of a car payment) to repair, it's like Person B paying $1,998 or (6 months of $333)

Am I too much of a linear thinker?

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Wolfgang Schneiderhan

My BMW has a lot of mechanical problems. Sometimes I wonder if it was the right decision -- until I get inside and drive it -- and cry tears of joy from how well it performs. The combination of handling, acceleration and braking is almost magical.

On the other hand my wife drives a Honda CRV which has exactly "zero" maintenance issues aside from the usual consumables like tires and brakes. When I drive it, it feels like a lifeless, soulless box on wheels that dispenses mediocrity with Japanese precision. It lumbers down the road with absolute contempt for joy and happiness, and leaves a trail of despair in its wake.

Maintenance costs aside, I know which car I would rather be driving.

Never has it been put more eloquently.
Cheers-mk

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by PoorLurker

Never understood when people don't realize that cars that cost three times as much will have repairs bills three times as much.

Assume $60k loan. Person A is paying $1,000/mo
Assume $20k loan. Person B is paying $333/mo

Person B pays $40 for an oil change. Person A pays $120 for an oil change.

A synthetic oil change on a 2.0L Turbo Car that cost $20k is the no diff than a synthetic oil change on a $45k car so im not sure I get your logic.

5qts of oil = 5qts of oil anyway you slice it.

People are talking reliability not cost of repairs, Cost of repairs isnt much more across all brands at the dealer were talking how much stuff goes wrong where it needs to goto the dealer.

[PoorLurker]

Originally Posted by QUiKSR20

A synthetic oil change on a 2.0L Turbo Car that cost $20k is the no diff than a synthetic oil change on a $45k car so im not sure I get your logic.

5qts of oil = 5qts of oil anyway you slice it.

People are talking reliability not cost of repairs, Cost of repairs isnt much more across all brands at the dealer were talking how much stuff goes wrong where it needs to goto the dealer.

I only read the first post where the lady was complaining about how much the Z3 costs so much to repair and maintain.

Yes, I do agree that 5 quarts of the same oil typically costs relatively the same price.

There are other costs factored into oil changes. Take your car to Honda, take a shuttle home. Take your car to Porsche, take a Panamera home.

That and badge tax is very common.

In regards to reliability - peace of mind is something that I value greatly. I am a man of warranties, so that I can continue to live with this peace of mind. With that said, if a manufacturer is known for putting out exciting cars but has reliability issues, as long as there is a warranty and a loaner car, I wouldn't mind. Some people may compare this to the hot/crazy scale with women. Many men put up with the sometimes crazy because of the hotness/attractiveness.

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by PoorLurker

I only read the first post where the lady was complaining about how much the Z3 costs so much to repair and maintain.

Yes, I do agree that 5 quarts of the same oil typically costs relatively the same price.

There are other costs factored into oil changes. Take your car to Honda, take a shuttle home. Take your car to Porsche, take a Panamera home.

That and badge tax is very common.

In regards to reliability - peace of mind is something that I value greatly. I am a man of warranties, so that I can continue to live with this peace of mind. With that said, if a manufacturer is known for putting out exciting cars but has reliability issues, as long as there is a warranty and a loaner car, I wouldn't mind. Some people may compare this to the hot/crazy scale with women. Many men put up with the sometimes crazy because of the hotness/attractiveness.

haha cool analogy, But when you get the hot one that wont drive you crazy thats a win.. Lets have the hot without the crazy and were golden.

You can have your crazy with reliability

Great weather here in jersey today, Time to "Get out and drive"