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M2 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Miscolored calipers? How I got new ones for free. Twice.

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      03-20-2020, 08:46 AM   #1
MagnusT
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Miscolored calipers? How I got new ones for free. Twice.

M2 is marketed as a car you can take to trackdays, it has instructions in the car manual what to do before trackdays and it even has in the option list when buying it a trackday/speedlimiter-lift option. So it's a bit of a let down when the calipers can't take the heat and can go green/brown if you do actually take it to trackdays and use it fully as intended. Even BMW's own BMW Experience M2's at Bilster Berg have miscolored calipers...

I've had M-cars before and have been to trackdays for over 20 years, so when my M2 calipers went dark brown I contacted BMW and said is your intention that this should happen and what are your thoughts? After a loooong time they said we'll swap out your calipers to new ones without cost. I replied that that wouldn't help, they'll just get miscolored too. I offered a solution that they'd give me the set of new calipers without mounting them so I could continue on my brown ones until I wanted to sell the car. They refused that and I let them change the calipers thinking it's useless but what can I do. Two trackdays later they were brown so I went back and said this is not okay on a car that YOU say is for trackdays. The reply was we are not going to do anything more about this. Soooo, I went to the Swedish Allmänna Reklamationsnämnden ARN which is a state driven customer rights "court" that rules on issues between companies and private customers. Their rulings though, they are always only recommendations but if a company doesn't follow their recommendation there is a black list run by another customer organization that keeps track of these cases.

So ARN then ruled in my favor with the recommendation being "solve this issue permanently". So then I was offered yet another change of calipers.... duh! I said that's useless, they'll just go brown. Nope. This is what we will offer you. Being stubborn I didn't give up, telling them the calipers will obviously go brown and then I'll just drag them to ARN yet again and we are back at square one to "solve this permanently" both spending a lot of time and effort. So, after a total of 2 years and 3 months they accepted giving me an extra set of calipers without mounting them.



TL DR

State driven Allmänna Reklamationsnämnden ARN recommended in my favor that "the issue should be solved permanently".

So in addition to getting my calipers swapped out (which didn't help obviously), I also got an extra set of brand new calipers that I can put on the car when I want to sell it.





Some documents and pics:
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      03-20-2020, 08:53 AM   #2
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English: What is ARN?
The National Board for Consumer Disputes (ARN).
https://arn.se/om-arn/Languages/english-what-is-arn/
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      03-25-2020, 11:56 AM   #3
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Where is this in the manual?

it has instructions in the car manual what to do before trackdays and it even has in the option list when buying it a trackday/speedlimiter-lift option.
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      03-25-2020, 02:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jclaib7 View Post
Where is this in the manual?

it has instructions in the car manual what to do before trackdays and it even has in the option list when buying it a trackday/speedlimiter-lift option.
Sorry it's in Swedish obviously, but this is from the manual. Some translations:


"Driving on a race circuit"

"Before driving on a racing circuit:"

"- Participation in a BMW Driving Experience Training"
"- Check the engine oil level and if necessary fill up with engine il"

"Driving on a race circuit leads to higher wear. The car is not designed for competition use. This wear is not covered by the factory warranty."

(= so the higher wear is not covered but you still have the warranty)


"The standard brake pads and wear indicators (sic) are not designed for driving on race circuits"

(= you must use some other brake pads than the standard brake pads when you do)




And the "option" I wrote about that you ask about is of course the "M Drivers Package" that you can tick in the purchasing option list, which includes a full day driving an M2 on a race track plus a lifted speed limiter.
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Last edited by MagnusT; 03-25-2020 at 02:53 PM..
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      03-25-2020, 04:00 PM   #5
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Look on the bright side, you could have paid a company to repaint your calipers black and then have this happen after the first 20 minute session on the track.



Yeah, that happened to me. The neon yellow calipers turned golden yellow after a track day so I thought I'd be safe with black. I also found in the owner's manual that caliper discoloration is considered "normal" in performance driving situations and not eligible for warranty replacement.
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      03-25-2020, 04:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Economatic View Post
Look on the bright side, you could have paid a company to repaint your calipers black and then have this happen after the first 20 minute session on the track.

[img]
View post on imgur.com
[/img]

Yeah, that happened to me. The neon yellow calipers turned golden yellow after a track day so I thought I'd be safe with black. I also found in the owner's manual that caliper discoloration is considered "normal" in performance driving situations and not eligible for warranty replacement.
That sucks.. I would be upset but accept that that's the cost tracking a vehicle like that..

This might sound like blasphemy here but M2 is obviously not a track tool but a sporty street vehicle and when you begin to push it, it shows its limitations, such as caliper color discoloration, for one..
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      03-25-2020, 06:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
That sucks.. I would be upset but accept that that's the cost tracking a vehicle like that..

This might sound like blasphemy here but M2 is obviously not a track tool but a sporty street vehicle and when you begin to push it, it shows its limitations, such as caliper color discoloration, for one..
I definitely learned a lot about brake upgrades from that experience! But in all fairness I was a novice so lack of driving skills factored into it too. It was shocking to find out how many cars with BBK's are not up the the task of track sessions.
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      03-26-2020, 12:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Economatic View Post
..... ck. I also found in the owner's manual that caliper discoloration is considered "normal" in performance driving situations and not eligible for warranty replacement.
Very interesting about that text being in your manual, there is nothing like that in my manual

What year is your car (or what year is your manual rather)? And what country?


I'm happy with this end result that I got. But they really didn't give up easy
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      03-26-2020, 03:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusT View Post
Very interesting about that text being in your manual, there is nothing like that in my manual

What year is your car (or what year is your manual rather)? And what country?


I'm happy with this end result that I got. But they really didn't give up easy
Apologies, I wasn't clear in what car I was referring to. I found that in the manual for an '18 Subaru WRX STi I owned, not my M2C.
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      Yesterday, 09:05 PM   #10
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Owner's manual from a US car (2018 LCI)

[IMG]https://media.fotki.com/2v2Hc2zCyxu6LVA.jpg[/IMG]
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      Today, 06:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pal View Post
Owner's manual from a US car (2018 LCI)

[IMG]https://media.fotki.com/2v2Hc2zCyxu6LVA.jpg[/IMG]
Exact same text, nice to know!
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      Today, 08:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
That sucks.. I would be upset but accept that that's the cost tracking a vehicle like that..

This might sound like blasphemy here but M2 is obviously not a track tool but a sporty street vehicle and when you begin to push it, it shows its limitations, such as caliper color discoloration, for one..
Poochie, Are you smoking crack? Maybe sprinkling some coke on your corn flakes in the AM?

The M2 is certainly a "track tool"

Every OEM painted caliper I've ever track driven on, has discolored.

Every students car I've gotten to really threshold brake has had their front calipers fade in color. (might take a few events)

Vettes, GTR"s Ferrari's, P Cars, Stangs, Z's, EVO's, STI's, Honda's.....They ALL DO!

Its a right of passage for HPDE drivers. If they haven't faded their calipers they aren't using their brakes to their potential.

If your going to measure a cars track abilities by its calipers not changing colors then NO CAR is...track worthy.

The OP is a Novice track driver. I'll give him a "pass" on this.

Although IMHO he's gone to far with his complaints. Kind of like owners who sue BMW over brakes making noise, or rust on their hubs/rotors.

I waited to buy a M2C because in my opinion its the best manual transmission "track ready" car for the money, that is also a great daily...
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      Today, 09:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
That sucks.. I would be upset but accept that that's the cost tracking a vehicle like that..

This might sound like blasphemy here but M2 is obviously not a track tool but a sporty street vehicle and when you begin to push it, it shows its limitations, such as caliper color discoloration, for one..
Poochie, Are you smoking crack? Maybe sprinkling some coke on your corn flakes in the AM?

The M2 is certainly a "track tool"

Every OEM painted caliper I've ever track driven on, has discolored.

Every students car I've gotten to really threshold brake has had their front calipers fade in color. (might take a few events)

Vettes, GTR"s Ferrari's, P Cars, Stangs, Z's, EVO's, STI's, Honda's.....They ALL DO!

Its a right of passage for HPDE drivers. If they haven't faded their calipers they aren't using their brakes to their potential.

If your going to measure a cars track abilities by its calipers not changing colors then NO CAR is...track worthy.

The OP is a Novice track driver. I'll give him a "pass" on this.

Although IMHO he's gone to far with his complaints. Kind of like owners who sue BMW over brakes making noise, or rust on their hubs/rotors.

I waited to buy a M2C because in my opinion its the best manual transmission "track ready" car for the money, that is also a great daily...
Pinched a nerve, I see..

No crack just some really stank weed..

What's your excuse for the disillusionment?

Sorry to burst your bubble but every professional reviewer that covers these cars comment on how they are not track cars but sporty street vehicles. There are better cars to be had, with robust brakes, that can handle track duty without the caliper paint melting, trust me, I've checked. Is that too much to ask of a "track" car?

Yes, they can do a sick burnout and hold it's on own on the track but when pushed to the limits, in its stock form, it begins shows its weakness.

If you want to stick your head in the sand and believe your have a 55k track star, more power to you but you're practicing self-deception and expect your calipers to turn as pink as your panties.
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      Today, 09:16 AM   #14
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How may HPDE's have you done?

Name a car that I can register on the street for less than $100K that will not discolor its calipers.

Is a GT3 a track ready car? So why is it you can discolor the calipers on it?

As for the motoring press I take EVERYTHING they write with a grain of salt.

I bet you read Motor Trend :-)
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      Today, 10:01 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
How may HPDE's have you done?

Name a car that I can register on the street for less than $100K that will not discolor its calipers.

Is a GT3 a track ready car? So why is it you can discolor the calipers on it?

As for the motoring press I take EVERYTHING they write with a grain of salt.

I bet you read Motor Trend :-)

No, never been to a track, I live and work in NYC and what's the point of tracking my vehicle, if it's going to ruing a part of it, when pushed.

For me, for it to be considered a track-ready vehicle, at minimum, it would have the proper brake setup, such as carbon ceramics, with ample cooling and possibly power-coated, so it doesn't turn shit-brown, after a few hot laps.

If your brake calipers can't handle that, then it's doesn't belong on a track. Sorry for being logical.
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      Today, 10:22 AM   #16
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I rest my case....

Most modern sports cars with minor mods can handle heavy duty track work.

On the M2C a simple track pad and brake fluid change will allow all but the most accomplished drivers a safe fun experience with little to no fade issues.

If I were you I'd drive out of the boroughs, and finally enjoy your M2 for what it excels at...

Its 2 hrs to LRP, 1 hr 45 min to Pocono, or Monticello, and 2hrs 15 mins to NJMP,

If you never get out onto a track I can't begin to explain why the M2 IS A GREAT platform for it...
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      Today, 12:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
I rest my case....

Most modern sports cars with minor mods can handle heavy duty track work.

On the M2C a simple track pad and brake fluid change will allow all but the most accomplished drivers a safe fun experience with little to no fade issues.

If I were you I'd drive out of the boroughs, and finally enjoy your M2 for what it excels at...

Its 2 hrs to LRP, 1 hr 45 min to Pocono, or Monticello, and 2hrs 15 mins to NJMP,

If you never get out onto a track I can't begin to explain why the M2 IS A GREAT platform for it...
Thanks for the track suggestions, I'll keep them in mind but I'm not taking my M2, that came with the same design of calipers as a 228i to the track, so I will come back another color.

They're inadequate for such a task, regardless how you slice it, IMO but we'll just leave it there..


https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=18153545
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      Today, 01:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Thanks for the track suggestions, I'll keep them in mind but I'm not taking my M2, that came with the same design of calipers as a 228i to the track, so I will come back another color.

They're inadequate for such a task, regardless how you slice it, IMO but we'll just leave it there..


https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=18153545
That’s an awfully definitive statement from someone who has no track experience.

A few thoughts from someone who actually has a fair number of track days in his M2;

-Paint is cosmetic and shouldn’t be confused with a functional deficiency.

-Regular 2 series uses the same caliper but with a 1 piece rotor.

- I personally have 30+ days on track with the stock calipers, and after a pad and fluid swap, have no trouble getting through 20 minute DE sessions.

- IND has a vested interest in all of us finding aspects of our cars inadequate. They’re in the business of selling us cosmetic and mechanical upgrades. Sometimes more is just more. All they show in the thread you linked to is that aftermarket brembo uses a bigger pad.

-The Alcon brakes you posted earlier appear to be using a steel rotor, not the CCB you claim is a necessity for a track-ready car.

-Powder coating will discolor too. Anodizing is more heat resistant, but is not as corrosion resistant. That’s a trade off an OEM has to make for a street car.

-CCB OEM replacement rotors are $4,300, vs $300 for OE. Show me the ROI somewhere for CCB over steel brake rotors please.

-Cooling ducts we’re easily and cheaply added
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      Today, 02:16 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
The OP is a Novice track driver. I'll give him a "pass" on this.

...
Well... OP, here Just a slight correction I've been doing trackdays since 1998. Also endurance racing. I have over 15 years of being an HPDE instructor and also main instructor for some car clubs, for example the Swedish official BMW club and also the Lotus club sometimes for example. I run a large Swedish trackday and hobby racing web site www.rejsa.nu, I've had a range of different cars, I had an E36 M3 for almost ten years, also an M3 CSL, but also tracked my Ford Fiesta ST, Twingo RS, even tracked my Citroën C1





PS:
A modern Porsche caliper does not go from yellow/red to all black in one trackday how ever hard you push it (with the right braking technique) . On some tracks, pushing the M2 hard, the calipers do.
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