[M1fortyeye]

Power delivery truly is very linear but not sure if car comes alive at 5.000 revs..actually it's dying past 5.500..
(source of dyno graph: https://www.bluesparkautomotive.com/...YqOj4HWngzsHsA)

[BMOEW]

M4 or m2 competition? In the market for a new

[Romo]

Originally Posted by Phantom_9192

I'm not going to quote the whole post but one thing about the 'ring video and "disgusting understeer". I don't know the poster's experience with race cars and/or track driving so I won't cast aspersions, but you need to think that comment through.

The M2C, regardless of what the "C" stands for, is a street car. At the end of the day, a street car's primary goal is to keep the people inside of it alive. To succeed in that goal, engineers have to plan for all competency level of drivers and all sorts of conditions.
That means understeer in the base set up.
The "M" is your warning as a consumer that the limits on this car will be much higher than those on your Fusion. The "C" takes that limit a bit higher.

That being said, when you take an accomplished driver and put them in the car at 10/10ths on the ring, there *will* be a limiting factor. In a street car (non-modified), that factor will invariably be understeer. So he hit the limit. If he normally drives a race car (likely), then understeer will be frustrating for him (I set all my cars up to be loose in all phases of the corner as understeer drains my life force).
The complaints of understeer (especially labeled as "disgusting") are complaints of the limiting factor on a lap of the 'ring that was sub 8 minutes.
99.9% of the world's limiting factor in a M2C attempting a sub 8 minute lap will be the driver ruining their pants.

In short, people are complaining about "disgusting understeer" in a *street* car on street tires (I'm assuming) that was performing well above its weight class (IMO) on the most challenging track on the planet.

I love the internet. What a crazy place.

+1

If I may make a comparison on understeer E46 M3, E92 M3, E82 1M (al my previous cars)
These cars had all far more early understeer than the M2, which has a brilliant front axle grip IMHO, the M2C will be even better in that regard. It is the best compared to his historical and above mentioned brothers!

You must be pushing like a mad man on the streets for understeer, and if so; You`re doing it wrong.

[Romo]

I must say; The SO has grown on me, I do like it better than HS, I saw HS a week ago IRL, tricky color IMHO

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Romo

I must say; The SO has grown on me, I do like it better than HS, I saw HS a week ago IRL, tricky color IMHO

SO is great Robert, only one thing: in our country you can only order the seats /interior with blue stitching , not the orange stitching like in other markets...

Cheers
Robin

[Romo]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

SO is great Robert, only one thing: in our country you can only order the seats /interior with blue stitching , not the orange stitching like in other markets...

Cheers
Robin

egh?? Say what??

Is that true??

I saw the choice for both stitchings on the Dutch configurator, FWIW

[Ole Red]

Originally Posted by Romo

+1

If I may make a comparison on understeer E46 M3, E92 M3, E82 1M (al my previous cars)
These cars had all far more early understeer than the M2, which has a brilliant front axle grip IMHO, the M2C will be even better in that regard. It is the best compared to his historical and above mentioned brothers!

You must be pushing like a mad man on the streets for understeer, and if so; You`re doing it wrong.

Thanks for more good info - think I'm sold if one shows up locally.

[gnx]

I've used vorschlag camber plates on my e86m, GC plates on my e89. In both cases the result has been zero understeer under any scenario. Now, i've been looking for camber plates for the m2c and I guess that in the past, struts have been either 3 or 5 holed. Does anybody know if M2Cs are all with 5 holes?

[raysspl]

Looking fwd to watching this during work break

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by raysspl

Looking fwd to watching this during work break

Get ready to cringe when he drives on the gravel road.

Otherwise it's a nice insightful review.

[Nkc]

Originally Posted by Ole Red

That is really great to hear! This car will probably not see the track, as I do have a dedicated track car (Viper ACR). The point of this car is to suffice as a daily/fun weekender that I won't be worried about at the supermarket like I would, say, a GT3 Touring. I'm retired, so a DD for me is to the gym and the market, and I belong to a couple of local clubs that do frequent canyon drives. I don't want to plow corners and rip front tires on every canyon drive, and the ACR is just uncomfortable overkill. But it sounds like at anything <= 8/10's or so in the M2C, the front end should be fine, and if it isn't, camber plates will solve. Awesome, thanks!

In its delivery setup, the ACR has apparent understeer as well and that's with the hero tires. I'd even say that I felt more understeer in the Gen5 ACR than the M2C with PSS when pushed to their relative limits. That's until you do some adjustments to the ACR's suspension that it really shines but you'll lose a set of front tires faster than you can say Kumho. The M2C with decent compound will do just fine on the track with the right camber but on a daily usage, I doubt you'll ever see it understeer. As much as I love the ACR, its still not my dedicated weapon of choice on the track.

[GerardzM]

Originally Posted by M1fortyeye

Power delivery truly is very linear but not sure if car comes alive at 5.000 revs..actually it's dying past 5.500..
(source of dyno graph: https://www.bluesparkautomotive.com/...YqOj4HWngzsHsA)

Actually a good point, never paid much attention to the vehicles dyno.

Placebo effect possibly?
Excitement from people finally getting an M2?

...at least it's not falling off dramatically, looks fairly flat.

[m981addicts]

Originally Posted by eDrive

Get ready to cringe when he drives on the gravel road.

Otherwise it's a nice insightful review.

Twice, even.

BTW, when does he usually do a 'proper' review after a 'proper' break in?

[gnx]

http://www.joeachilles.com/

If you guys want get more color.

[Ole Red]

Originally Posted by Nkc

In its delivery setup, the ACR has apparent understeer as well and that's with the hero tires. I'd even say that I felt more understeer in the Gen5 ACR than the M2C with PSS when pushed to their relative limits. That's until you do some adjustments to the ACR's suspension that it really shines but you'll lose a set of front tires faster than you can say Kumho. The M2C with decent compound will do just fine on the track with the right camber but on a daily usage, I doubt you'll ever see it understeer. As much as I love the ACR, its still not my dedicated weapon of choice on the track.

Setup to very close to where I like it (ACR) took one session. I had never driven with downforce before that car though, and it took about a year to get used to it. It's kind of freaky pulling more lateral G's in 4th gear than in 2nd - took me forever to trust it.

Thanks for the M2C comparison and feedback - seems I had nothing to worry about!

[SEAT TIME RULES]

Originally Posted by adc

To start with, both the M3 and the M2C will feel like a GT3 after your E60 M5.

All BMWs except perhaps the CSL or GTS (which have fully adjustable suspensions) come stock with understeer built in. To make my M3 track worthy, I am adding a set of GC camber plates to get around 2.5 - 2.7 negative camber at the front. I run R comps or similar at the track. With this configuration you get almost no understeer anymore, just a bit if you really are ham fisted, and beware of that. Still the front tires are going before the rears on track.

Truly on this chassis to run slicks with confidence you need 3.5 degrees of negative camber at the front, but that is not necessarily a street friendly setup.


So the answer depends on your expectations. If you are fast on track you will want the camber plates, and if you are very fast then you’ll want to max the plates out. At that point the car can be a disaster on the street depending on where you live, how you drive and what street tires you have.

I can tell you that absolutely stock, the F8x chassis (and by association i think the M2C) has the least amount of built in understeer from all non special edition M cars I’ve driven so far. It is a base from which you can build on with confidence, and take it to any insane level you dream of.

Many cars you mentioned, GT350, Z06, 991 GT3, are more akin to an M4 GTS not an M2C, meaning factory maxed out for track duty and with all the drawbacks that causes on the street. Most people I see at the track driving these cars are trailering them, so they don’t view them as street cars anymore. And many of these cars, despite being factory prepped for track duty, are still being modified by the owners to make them even better track weapons.

Where on this scale do you reside? if you’re like me, daily driver with 4-6 weekends of track duty per year, then an M2C will fit the bill perfectly with just a few mods (brake pads and fluid, camber plates) and you will throw a set of track wheels and tires in the back when you go there. These cars can handle up to 10 weekends per year in this configuration without falling apart.

If you are a track junkie spending way more time on track then you probably shouldn’t start with a brand new car, only to have to invest more $$$ in it, and have the risk of a huge write off should things go pear shaped.

When it comes to camber plates I have 20 years experience using them on a few different cars. TC Kline's, GC and Vorshlag, etc. I've run them "fixed" at 3.5, or higher neg up front.... and I've run them with street and track setting marked on top of the plates. Whatever you decide to do make sure you run zero toe up front!!! Your front tires will last MUCH LONGER if you take my advice. Any toe positive or neg will accelerate inside edge wear...

FWIW I've yet to see a M car that didn't want at least 3.2 up front. The more spring you use the more Neg camber your going to want as well. I do not believe in sways to dial a car in. I use springs with D/A or T/A struts and camber to get the car balanced the way I like it. Sways are a poor mans fix. Yes they are very important to Solo 2 drivers (big front bars) but for track duty they are at best a fine tuning tool. Nothing beats lots of Neg camber in any BMW chassis up front.

On my 1998 M3/4 I ran 3.7/2.2 with 285/30 Ho Ho's using 700/800 springs and D/A Koni's. The car was a beast on tighter tracks and was one of the fastest BSP cars at the time.

The M2 is a near perfect balance of daily driver and weekend HPDE warrior.
I plan on dumping the back seat and throwing a 5 lb Anti Gravity battery in mine when it finally gets built.


YMMV,
HAZMAT

[Quietmind]

I love getting this kind of insight regarding best practices for track set up. Not to get too far off topic; but what would street behavior be like for the M2C running 3+ degrees of negative camber? I think I understand the benefit for HPD/track, but what is the downside for normal driving? Apologies for such a neophyte question.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Quietmind

I love getting this kind of insight regarding best practices for track set up. Not to get too far off topic; but what would street behavior be like for the M2C running 3+ degrees of negative camber? I think I understand the benefit for HPD/track, but what is the downside for normal driving? Apologies for such a neophyte question.

Tyres having 50% of life and steering that annoys the shit out of you when trying to go in a straight line.

[CP911]

Originally Posted by Davil

Tyres having 50% of life and steering that annoys the shit out of you when trying to go in a straight line.

Can you elaborate on steering? I've never felt the effects of 3+ degrees of camber and it would be great to know what I'd be in for should I choose to go down this path one day.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by CP911

Can you elaborate on steering? I've never felt the effects of 3+ degrees of camber and it would be great to know what I'd be in for should I choose to go down this path one day.

I drove my M4 with -3 degrees camber (track alignment with 0 toe) for over a year and didn't experience any issues about the car's steering. If anything, it further improved even on street driving. No issues of having trouble to keep the car in a straight line. It does ruin the tires tho, they will last much shorter due to excessive inner shoulder wear.

[SEAT TIME RULES]

Originally Posted by Davil

Tyres having 50% of life and steering that annoys the shit out of you when trying to go in a straight line.

Sorry but you don't lose 50% of the life of the tires if you don't run any toe up front. I just went thru a set of BFG Rival 1.5's on my Miata RF with 3.5 Neg camber. I got 19K out of those with that camber.

As for steering and ride changes the car will "hunt" more over roads with camber issues. Nothing that was alarming... Such as uneven surfaces between the center line and the shoulder etc. If the road had minimal camber for drainage there was zero difference from stock settings.

[Phantom_9192]

Could you throw some caster at it for dynamic camber? Still have to zero the toe out for the street, but at least you could possibly eliminate some of the static camber issues, trading that for heavier, more sensitive steering (cost of caster).