[BMW M Power Mexico]

Originally Posted by adc

I think the M2 will be more playful in daily driving conditions, like a very strong puppy on a sugar rush, whereas many Porsche’s feel like “very serious machines”, all grip and steely determination. It is extremely hard to unstick any modern Porsche on normal roads, where the margin of error is small and other drivers generally not amused by your antics.

On track? Confidence and skill count for far more than vehicle capabilities.

You sir, are spot on here. I [humblebrag] also own an effing GT4[/humblebrag]. My 1M is a lot more fun for street driving precisely because it is wild and unhinged. On track yeah the GT4 is a precision machine. But I prefer the wilder, you have to beat them into submission character of M cars in general most of the time.

[Trapperj]

Originally Posted by cptobvious

Oh, no, no, didn't mean to come across as accusatory at all. Sorry, if I did. Come across as jealous? Yes, definitely, definitely very jealous.

I think you're spot on, with your point that "it depends." Sorry, if it came across as though I thought the M2C was a better car than the 718. Not at all. I just meant that I, personally, chose the M2C hands down because it's a 4-seater and I need it as a daily driver, I gotta lug the double-wide stroller in the trunk, along with the floaties and all the swim clothes and towels, along with the diaper bag... It's only on weekends that I get to go up in the mountains in my car and search for my lost manhood.

I've never done track, but have heard that Porsche's are simply incomparable on the track. So, again... very jealous.

Wasn’t referring to you Capt. some others before you
It’s all good though...

[SUB-ZERO]

Originally Posted by adc

I think the M2 will be more playful in daily driving conditions, like a very strong puppy on a sugar rush, whereas many Porsche’s feel like “very serious machines”, all grip and steely determination. It is extremely hard to unstick any modern Porsche on normal roads, where the margin of error is small and other drivers generally not amused by your antics.

On track? Confidence and skill count for far more than vehicle capabilities.

I can agree with that. The M2 is certainly more playful. I drive in MDM 100% of the time so every once in a while I get sideways, traction control kicks in, and bam, I'm easily back. Tons of fun!

If I had to compare, I would say that the M2 is like a small hammer and Porsches are like exacto knives. Not the GT3 though, that thing is a Mother freakin weapon...a precision guided missile. Damn....I need to go on a drive now.

[THEROK]

Just can't get down with the 9a1 based pedestrian Carrera engine in the cayman gt4. Plus it's got zero road presence. Super narrow. Lame.

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by Racer20

As a suspension engineer, I find it hard to believe that they didn't change the spring and damper tuning at all to accommodate the extra front end and unsprung weight. They must have at least changed the check load on the front springs to adjust ride height for the extra mass and made slight adjustments to the dampers to ensure balance and proper wheel control with the heavier brakes.

Plus, didn't they also change some bushings in the rear from rubber to hard mounts?

So here's the thing: The spring/damper tuning was probably done with the intent to "keep the handling the same," meaning they weren't trying to make the car feel sportier or more hardcore, and they didn't want to give up any ride quality.

But retuning dampers to be exactly the same is not really possible. There's inherently going to be some difference, and in a situation like this, they would want to make sure that the difference errs on the sporty side and makes the car better.

As we know from the F80/82 world, BMW has made many un-advertised changes to those cars over their lives and a 2018 M3 is a completely different animal from a 2015 car. It's likely that there are minor changes to the M2C spring/damper tuning that add up to a slightly more responsive car but aren't a big enough deal for BMW to claim a unique suspension.

Originally Posted by Racer20

As a suspension engineer, I find it hard to believe that they didn't change the spring and damper tuning at all to accommodate the extra front end and unsprung weight. They must have at least changed the check load on the front springs to adjust ride height for the extra mass and made slight adjustments to the dampers to ensure balance and proper wheel control with the heavier brakes.

Plus, didn't they also change some bushings in the rear from rubber to hard mounts?

So here's the thing: The spring/damper tuning was probably done with the intent to "keep the handling the same," meaning they weren't trying to make the car feel sportier or more hardcore, and they didn't want to give up any ride quality.

But retuning dampers to be exactly the same is not really possible. There's inherently going to be some difference, and in a situation like this, they would want to make sure that the difference errs on the sporty side and makes the car better.

As we know from the F80/82 world, BMW has made many un-advertised changes to those cars over their lives and a 2018 M3 is a completely different animal from a 2015 car. It's likely that there are minor changes to the M2C spring/damper tuning that add up to a slightly more responsive car but aren't a big enough deal for BMW to claim a unique suspension.

As an owner of both a 2015 F80 vs the 2018 version with ZCP - unquestionably a difference - particularly the precision of the power being applied to the wheels especially in turns, the "feel" of the suspension, the more progressive onset of oversteer (including being able to pivot or steer the car with short jabs of the throttle - whether in MDM mode or DSC fully off. I am also convinced that the MDM on my 18 ZCP is less restrictive than MDM on my '15.

Based on my experience - I can definitely understand your points about additional "unadvertised" changes in the M2C vs original M2...

[PLF69]

Didnt some guys verify the part numbers and basically every part is the same, seems like they went lazy and just delivered a stronger enging/brakes...

[carl44]

thats it, same car with a bigger engine and brakes.carl

[JRF]

Originally Posted by mikeric

I was tempted by the new Carrera T as you do get a back seat. Hard to justify though for the cost of 2 M2Cs.

i was contemplating a Carrera T too...... but the full GT buckets and rear seat delete would have been a must for me!....a $5200 option BTW.

[RUIN3D]

This is awesome!

[HammerDahn]

Clickbait. The Cayman is bespoke sports car. Not a hopped up coupe like the M2 Comp.

[3tekcorps]

After 5 pages I'm going to summarize and then we should just close this thread.

1) The original M2 is pretty damn awesome.

2) The M2 Comp is a bit better, but it's still the same chassis for fucks sakes and gained 140 pounds. They didn't even tweak the dampers/springs for the "comp" model.

3) The Cayman might be more fun in the twistes but has no back seat and blah blah blah. It's just a strange comparison.

4) The dude who made this video is a tool. Stop giving him clicks. It's just encouraging mediocre journalism.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by PLF69

Didnt some guys verify the part numbers and basically every part is the same, seems like they went lazy and just delivered a stronger enging/brakes...

Yes, same dampers and springs.

Matt Prior of AutoCar is saying he feels the retuning of the electronic steering. Along with the stiffening of the front end via the strutbrace and bulkhead bracing.

Parts required for strutbrace and bulkhead bracing retrofit.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by 3tekcorps

2) The M2 Comp is a bit better, but it's still the same chassis for fucks sakes and gained 140 pounds. They didn't even tweak the dampers/springs for the "comp" model.

On the scales the US M2C MT model was about 110 heavier than the original M2 MY17 MT.

[m20e3087]

Originally Posted by akkando

On the scales the US M2C MT model was about 110 heavier than the original M2 MY17 MT.

Source please?

[akkando]

Originally Posted by m20e3087

Source please?

carl

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by m20e3087

Source please?

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1529257

[mtoosexy]

Originally Posted by JRF

i was contemplating a Carrera T too...... but the full GT buckets and rear seat delete would have been a must for me!....a $5200 option BTW.

I want the carbon seats in the carerra T but would pay extra to keep the rear seats. 2 small children will fit back there for at least 7 more years.

[Pretender]

I love it, but I'll take the Porsche

[cptobvious]

I think I would echo some of the others who've posted that this is a bit of a weird comparison. Seems that the 2 cars have different use cases.

M2C is a sports coupe, which means that it's got 4 seats, is designed to make it possible to live with as a daily driver, enables you to have a ton of fun with true performance, while also being able to live with the vehicle like a normal human being, with normal every day human being needs - like occasionally carrying groceries in your car.

Cayman is a purpose-built sports car, which means it's going to handle better (mid-engine), be lighter, drive better at the limit, while also ensuring that you can't live like a normal human being. Go to pick up someone from the airport? Dude, can you stick your luggage on top of yourself? Go to pick up your 2 kids from school? Elise, I'm going to strap you to the top of the car, I love you, but I love your older sister and this car more than you, so I hope you don't mind being on the roof.

I love the M2C, and if I had to choose between the 2 cars, no question, hands down I would / and did choose the M2C.

With that said, I just test drove the 6MT Cayman today, and plan to buy one maybe 6 months from now.

So, really, moral of the story is summed up by picture below:

[fullstack]

Originally Posted by mtoosexy

I want the carbon seats in the carerra T but would pay extra to keep the rear seats. 2 small children will fit back there for at least 7 more years.

I believe once you option the bucket seats, the seatbelt gets threaded through the handle and you lose the access to the backseats because the seats don't fold.

[hdizzle]

Originally Posted by cptobvious

I think I would echo some of the others who've posted that this is a bit of a weird comparison. Seems that the 2 cars have different use cases.

M2C is a sports coupe, which means that it's got 4 seats, is designed to make it possible to live with as a daily driver, enables you to have a ton of fun with true performance, while also being able to live with the vehicle like a normal human being, with normal every day human being needs - like occasionally carrying groceries in your car.

Cayman is a purpose-built sports car, which means it's going to handle better (mid-engine), be lighter, drive better at the limit, while also ensuring that you can't live like a normal human being. Go to pick up someone from the airport? Dude, can you stick your luggage on top of yourself? Go to pick up your 2 kids from school? Elise, I'm going to strap you to the top of the car, I love you, but I love your older sister and this car more than you, so I hope you don't mind being on the roof.

I love the M2C, and if I had to choose between the 2 cars, no question, hands down I would / and did choose the M2C.

With that said, I just test drove the 6MT Cayman today, and plan to buy one maybe 6 months from now.

So, really, moral of the story is summed up by picture below:

Out of curiosity, which Cayman generation did you happen to drive? I've been on the fence about either adding, or switching to, a 981S. I'm always curious to hear about other's opinions who have driven both platforms. I love my OG M2 but I've got the car switchitis.

Also drove a 718S and liked it very much. The sound complaints are overblown in my opinion.. the usable low to mid range torque on tap more than makes up for it.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by hdizzle

Also drove a 718S and liked it very much. The sound complaints are overblown in my opinion.. the usable low to mid range torque on tap more than makes up for it.

Find a CPO 981 GTS to drive. The sound is intoxicating.