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      09-13-2018, 07:48 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afwares View Post
"Less sound proofing"

Someone in the comparison section of the forum (he owned the original, just bought an M2C) also says the M2C is much louder than the original M2. Did BMW actively try to make the car louder even beyond just the change in exhaust system?

I think BMW did, in fact, make the car louder via ASD.

1. Carl44 had the OG M2 and now has M2C indicates that the M2C is WAY LOUDER than OG M2. He's used bimmerlink to turn off ASD now

2. I now have the M2C and feel like my ear drums are going to burst every time I'm in Sport+. When I test drove the OG M2, I don't remember it being anywhere near as loud. If it were, I suspect I would have thought to myself, "Man, I need to get myself a set of earplugs to drive this car regularly." I just turned off ASD myself

I suspect this is why the reviewer thinks that there's less sound-proofing. The car is just that loud!
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      09-13-2018, 08:00 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by 3tekcorps View Post
What about the carbon strut brace on the M2C? Doesn't that overcome the laws of physics?
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      09-13-2018, 08:11 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3tekcorps View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
specially the weight.... those 718s shine on the turns...
What about the carbon strut brace on the M2C? Doesn't that overcome the laws of physics?


No. Nobody is above the law.

This might be closer to the cayman now, no doubt, better engine and better brakes than before. Also given that 90% of the cars will never even see a track in pictures, then might not make that much difference for the regular owner and you save a bunch of money over the cayman.

But once they come out with the GT4 is game over again.

It's very hard to compete with a cayman when the car weights 3600+ lbs and as it won't be built on the CLAR platform, it will be very hard to shave any weight even in the future.

The new M4 will be interesting
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      09-13-2018, 09:02 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3tekcorps View Post
So you think his statements are correct and it's an accurate evaluation from a professional journalist ?

"Extra Amount of Steering feedback" (1)

"New springs and damper settings" (2)

"changes direction so much better" (3)

"less sound proofing" (4)
I believe that he thought there was less sound proofing was because there are more 'engine/drivetrain' noises in the cabin. Doesn't mean that he is totally wrong. The result is there are more 'wanted' noises to heighten the sporty driving experience. May be from ASD, may be from other changes...

Point 2 you mentioned is a result of his driving feel from point 1 and point 3. So may be he made a mistake with that but the most important thing is to him (the driver) point 1 and point 3 still stands.

Last edited by Karmic Man; 09-13-2018 at 09:09 PM..
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      09-13-2018, 09:08 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Of course they are both great. I am pretty sure that given the part numbers that are the same, these cars will drive almost identically other than the engine.

You can safely ignore most of the hyperbole from journalists as they are being influenced by the word Competition being in the name and the misleading presentations from BMW taking credit for things that are already in the OG M2 suspension. On the flip side, anyone who claims to "feel the weight" is probably full of shit, too.

If anyone thinks adding a single strut brace is going to transform the car, pretty sure they're nuts. The M4 already had this strut bar and was known for worse steering feel and worse turn-in than the OG M2 without this magical brace. The exact two things that many are claiming the strut brace to help with.
The M4 has a much longer wheelbase than the M2 so of course the turn in won't be as quick.

The 1M has even quicker turn in than the M2 because the wheelbase is even shorter.

The numb steering feel of the M3/M4 is from the EPS. They improved that with the ZCP after re-tuning the software and the spring/damper settings.

If the strut base doesn't do anything it won't be in the M3/M4 in the first place.
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      09-13-2018, 09:13 PM   #50
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      09-13-2018, 09:22 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
The M4 has a much longer wheelbase than the M2 so of course the turn in won't be as quick.

The 1M has even quicker turn in than the M2 because the wheelbase is even shorter.

The numb steering feel of the M3/M4 is from the EPS. They improved that with the ZCP after re-tuning the software and the spring/damper settings.

If the strut base doesn't do anything it won't be in the M3/M4 in the first place.
I mean grip and willingness to change direction vs understeer. What you are talking about can just be adjusted by steering ratio.

The M2 exhibits very little understeer when pushed. The 1M, Z4M, and E92 M3 all lack the front end bite of the M2.

Some still say the steering feels better in the M2 even compared to ZCP cars, whether or not that is true, who knows.

My entire point is that this brace is not magical. The M2 was already good in regard to the properties that a strut bar helps with. I added one to my Z4M and can't say there was that much difference. Of course, the result may be different on this chassis.
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      09-13-2018, 09:55 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Die ///M Rakete View Post
Great car without a doubt. But anyone that has driven a 718 cayman S will know that there is a world of a difference between any BMW and Porsche.
As a matter of fact, I own both a pretty modified M4 and a 911-991.2.
Yes the m4 is faster, I’ll take the Porsche any day. Same with the 718 over an m2.
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      09-13-2018, 10:06 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3tekcorps View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
specially the weight.... those 718s shine on the turns...
What about the carbon strut brace on the M2C? Doesn't that overcome the laws of physics?
+10 hp and +0.2g on the skid pad lol
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      09-13-2018, 10:13 PM   #54
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Why bother comparing it to a cayman? Its lighter and mid engine, two seater. Its gonna handle better. All day long. That is the formula for peak handling. M2 (any BMW) does not follow that formula. But the M2c is a blast. Better daily driver, and dont really need a second car for utility purposes the cayman will impose on its owners. Thats BMW's trump card. Really not a good comparison. Hell, i saw a kia stinger at my last HPDE and it looked bonkers around the track. Comes down to brand loyalty most of the time. Mine happens to be BMW so whatever shortfalls, I guess I accept.
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      09-13-2018, 10:25 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E21-myfirstlove View Post
Why bother comparing it to a cayman? Its lighter and mid engine, two seater. Its gonna handle better. All day long. That is the formula for peak handling. M2 (any BMW) does not follow that formula. But the M2c is a blast. Better daily driver, and dont really need a second car for utility purposes the cayman will impose on its owners. Thats BMW's trump card. Really not a good comparison. Hell, i saw a kia stinger at my last HPDE and it looked bonkers around the track. Comes down to brand loyalty most of the time. Mine happens to be BMW so whatever shortfalls, I guess I accept.
Agreed! But, even if I wanted a two-seater, Cayman still wouldn't be my first choice. I would get a C7 Grand Sport over 718.
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      09-13-2018, 10:49 PM   #56
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Are these really direct competitors? Performance wise maybe but the Cayman is a two seater.
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      09-13-2018, 10:56 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Agreed! But, even if I wanted a two-seater, Cayman still wouldn't be my first choice. I would get a C7 Grand Sport over 718.
The Cayman isn't in the same category as the M2, but I could see someone cross-shopping them if they were able to use a 2-seater as a DD.

The Corvette is a bit bigger than the Cayman, and the GS wears very wide tires, not sure how practical winter tires are for the C7. I know they made a set of PA4, but still. The Cayman just seems a bit more low key, better built, and probably handles better (less grip of course).

For me, the biggest issue with almost all of the 2-seaters is fitting things like skis in the car. I guess you can with a Cayman but at some risk of decapitation in an accident.
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      09-13-2018, 11:23 PM   #58
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I have a GT4, my second, and have had two other 981'S .They are in a whole different league then the M2 or the M2C. Steering chassis engine ect. Ive also spent a good deal of time in all the variations of the 718 inc the GTS. Great chassis probably as good as the GT4 for handling . More torque but not as sweet or as sharp as the NA 3.8 flat 6 in the GT4. I like my M2C as i did the 0G M2 that was my DD for 13k mi. Great sports coupe or GT car but not a pure sports car.. The test was strange, he raves about the great steering feel and the different suspension? Wondering if he had the same M2C as i do ? Just one mans opinion. carl

Last edited by carl44; 09-13-2018 at 11:29 PM..
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      09-13-2018, 11:29 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
The Cayman isn't in the same category as the M2, but I could see someone cross-shopping them if they were able to use a 2-seater as a DD.

The Corvette is a bit bigger than the Cayman, and the GS wears very wide tires, not sure how practical winter tires are for the C7. I know they made a set of PA4, but still. The Cayman just seems a bit more low key, better built, and probably handles better (less grip of course).

For me, the biggest issue with almost all of the 2-seaters is fitting things like skis in the car. I guess you can with a Cayman but at some risk of decapitation in an accident.
I live in California so winter is not a problem for me. Also, if I decided to go with a 2-seater, I would get a second, more practical car as a DD so that I don't have to worry about fitting stuff.

Corvette might be a bit bigger but not sure if it handles any worse than the Cayman. When it comes to lap times, it's significantly quicker than 718 Cayman S. Just for reference:

C7 GS at Laguna Seca: 1:35.6
718 Cayman S at Laguna Seca: 1:40.5
Bonus: 981 GT4 at Laguna: 1:37.4

C7 GS at VIR: 2:47.1
718 Cayman S at VIR: 2:58.3
Bonus: 981 GT4 at VIR: 2:54

Especially with the crazy discounts you can get on Corvettes, the price difference between a GS and a 718 can be quite dramatic. There is no way I would choose a flat-4 718 over a V8 C7 GS.
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      09-14-2018, 12:31 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig335d View Post
Are previous version owners going to defend against every positive M2C review?
If so, once the road reviews around the world start coming through then you are going to be busy.
Keep up the good work!
No problem with the positive press here! Hope more of it floods the forums and lots of people continue to buy the best "Ultimate Driving Machine" in the BMW lineup.

However, I think it's intellectually dishonest to compare a car to another when only one car is present. Especially true when the other car compared hasn't been driven by the reviewer in 3+ years.
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      09-14-2018, 12:45 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
I live in California so winter is not a problem for me. Also, if I decided to go with a 2-seater, I would get a second, more practical car as a DD so that I don't have to worry about fitting stuff.

Corvette might be a bit bigger but not sure if it handles any worse than the Cayman. When it comes to lap times, it's significantly quicker than 718 Cayman S. Just for reference:

C7 GS at Laguna Seca: 1:35.6
718 Cayman S at Laguna Seca: 1:40.5
Bonus: 981 GT4 at Laguna: 1:37.4

C7 GS at VIR: 2:47.1
718 Cayman S at VIR: 2:58.3
Bonus: 981 GT4 at VIR: 2:54

Especially with the crazy discounts you can get on Corvettes, the price difference between a GS and a 718 can be quite dramatic. There is no way I would choose a flat-4 718 over a V8 C7 GS.
I agree. With the discounts Chevy is offering right now on the GS, it is one of the most severely underrated cars on the planet.

But if my wife OKs a 2 seater () in the future, then my most wanted car right now for the price might be the upcoming mid-engine Corvette (crossing my fingers that it won't be too expensive). Of course, I dream of having a GT3, but that's out of my price range (double )

It is amazing what Chevy has done with the current Corvette (GS and Z06) and the Camaro ZL1 1LE at the prices they are going for. I am cross-shopping the ZL1 1LE and GT350R with the M2C if I do decide to go with something more raw. I will be tracking my next car and the M brand is honestly not a motor sport division anymore. M BMWs are the ultimate daily driver mixed in with some motor sport. It makes me contemplate about what I really want...everyday. However, I really like the total package that is the M2C!

BMW, as the rumors say, please make the M2 CSL a reality...even if I can't afford it. One can at least drool when I see it at a Cars and Coffee. #MBMWGA

Last edited by csbear; 09-14-2018 at 12:54 AM..
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      09-14-2018, 12:57 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
I live in California so winter is not a problem for me. Also, if I decided to go with a 2-seater, I would get a second, more practical car as a DD so that I don't have to worry about fitting stuff.

Corvette might be a bit bigger but not sure if it handles any worse than the Cayman. When it comes to lap times, it's significantly quicker than 718 Cayman S. Just for reference:

C7 GS at Laguna Seca: 1:35.6
718 Cayman S at Laguna Seca: 1:40.5
Bonus: 981 GT4 at Laguna: 1:37.4

C7 GS at VIR: 2:47.1
718 Cayman S at VIR: 2:58.3
Bonus: 981 GT4 at VIR: 2:54

Especially with the crazy discounts you can get on Corvettes, the price difference between a GS and a 718 can be quite dramatic. There is no way I would choose a flat-4 718 over a V8 C7 GS.
It is definitely faster, no doubt, but I wonder how much of that is the difference in power and the massive tires compared to the Cayman.

It's more about the feel than the raw numbers for me anyway. I'd be on the Camaro ZL1 forum right now otherwise.
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      09-14-2018, 12:59 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csbear View Post
I agree. With the discounts Chevy is offering right now on the GS, it is one of the most severely underrated cars on the planet.

But if my wife OKs a 2 seater () in the future, then my most wanted car right now for the price might be the upcoming mid-engine Corvette (crossing my fingers that it won't be too expensive). Of course, I dream of having a GT3, but that's out of my price range (double )

It is amazing what Chevy has done with the current Corvette (GS and Z06) and the Camaro ZL1 1LE at the prices they are going for. I am cross-shopping the ZL1 1LE and GT350R with the M2C if I do decide to go with something more raw. I will be tracking my next car and the M brand is honestly not a motor sport division anymore. M BMWs are the ultimate daily driver mixed in with some motor sport. It makes me contemplate about what I really want...everyday. However, I really like the total package that is the M2C!

BMW, as the rumors say, please make the M2 CSL a reality...even if I can't afford it. One can at least drool when I see it at a Cars and Coffee. #MBMWGA
I would be all over the Camaro but I just don't think I can get over the packaging and feel. The Camaro and Mustang feel really large, with high beltlines. I haven't driven the latest generation so maybe it's a bit better. The thing I liked most about my Z4M was the size.
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      09-14-2018, 01:15 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Of course they are both great. I am pretty sure that given the part numbers that are the same, these cars will drive almost identically other than the engine.

You can safely ignore most of the hyperbole from journalists as they are being influenced by the word Competition being in the name and the misleading presentations from BMW taking credit for things that are already in the OG M2 suspension. On the flip side, anyone who claims to "feel the weight" is probably full of shit, too.

If anyone thinks adding a single strut brace is going to transform the car, pretty sure they're nuts. The M4 already had this strut bar and was known for worse steering feel and worse turn-in than the OG M2 without this magical brace. The exact two things that many are claiming the strut brace to help with.
Do you have an OG?
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      09-14-2018, 01:19 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Craig335d View Post
Do you have an OG?
Nope, might be in the market for either used M2 or M2C though.
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      09-14-2018, 01:26 AM   #66
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Not really a comparison. I need rear back seats and a bit of practicality in my DD so that I can still use my car with the whole family, so Cayman isn’t / wasn’t in the reckoning.
Nevertheless the M2C sounds like a great package, will be my first BMW.

Don’t know if the US Market is getting the Alpine A110, but it is supposedly a better drivers car than the Cayman.
For me looks like an amazing car and I’d have it in a second if I could manage with just two seats.
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