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      09-13-2018, 02:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afwares View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_M2 View Post
Louder ASD?
I know you jest...given all the bypass harnesses purchased and people coding out ASD there's no way BMW chose to ignore all that market feedback and add decibels artificially, right?

And from the threads here about people putting sound deadening pieces back in, I didn't think there was much sound deadening material left to delete from this car either.
I know, I was kidding. I don't think bmw would have touched the ASD; it's probably the exhaust with those crackles.

Regarding insulation, I am not sure if there was anything to remove. Checkout this thread : https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1452618.
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      09-13-2018, 02:44 PM   #24
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"So much better" with minor tweaks has happened almost every time recently for BMWs. F10 M5, F8X M3 / M4, and now M2, but the M2 to me had the most changes out of the 3 due to the S55 being dropped IMO.
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      09-13-2018, 02:47 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
Is it just me or?

This man sounds a kind of artificial, exaggerated enthusiastic. I do try to avoid the word "fake", but in all honesty I can`t.
I was thinking blowhard by 2:00 minutes. I haven't driven an M2c yet, but I have a hard time understanding how 150 additional pounds and a strut brace upgrade make the chassis so much better than the M2 OG.
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      09-13-2018, 03:10 PM   #26
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Pffff... there we go again. What a pancake. How much fake news is there in this video. How can you be so wrong as a journalist. He clearly asked the wrong the questions and had words being put in his mouth before leaving and going for the drive.

Sorry, but a 718 still handles better than a M2C. The engine is an easy win for the M2C, but for the rest the 718 Cayman is a better sports car but also considerably more expensive than the M2C.

For the price the M2C is a bargain and the best bang for buck, if you want to buy new. If you want to buy second hand, buy a M2. They are so much cheaper right now that it is an interesting purchase.

MR
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      09-13-2018, 03:11 PM   #27
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Are previous version owners going to defend against every positive M2C review?
If so, once the road reviews around the world start coming through then you are going to be busy.
Keep up the good work!
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      09-13-2018, 03:16 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3tekcorps View Post
A few of his statements make me question credibility.

"Extra Amount of Steering feedback"

"New springs and damper settings"

"changes direction so much better"

"less sound proofing"

Half the time it sounded like he was just making stuff up as he drove.
Reminds me very much of initial M2 reviews, where some reporters noted that the suspension performed much better when they put the car in Sport
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      09-13-2018, 03:20 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3tekcorps View Post
A few of his statements make me question credibility.

"Extra Amount of Steering feedback"

"New springs and damper settings"

"changes direction so much better"

"less sound proofing"

Half the time it sounded like he was just making stuff up as he drove.
Reminds me very much of initial M2 reviews, where some reporters noted that the suspension performed much better when they put the car in Sport
I will not mention any names here, but in the last few weeks I had to explain to certain OG M2 drivers and owners that their suspension did not change when they choose a different driving mode.

Over the weekend I drove a M2 for like 150 kilometer again and it was a great drive just before my M2C arriving on the 22nd. I am planning a comparison drive soon between them, but it showed me again why I Iiked the M2 so much.

MR
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      09-13-2018, 03:29 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. View Post
I will not mention any names here, but in the last few weeks I had to explain to certain OG M2 drivers and owners that their suspension did not change when they choose a different driving mode.

Over the weekend I drove a M2 for like 150 kilometer again and it was a great drive just before my M2C arriving on the 22nd. I am planning a comparison drive soon between them, but it showed me again why I Iiked the M2 so much.

MR
As a suspension engineer, I find it hard to believe that they didn't change the spring and damper tuning at all to accommodate the extra front end and unsprung weight. They must have at least changed the check load on the front springs to adjust ride height for the extra mass and made slight adjustments to the dampers to ensure balance and proper wheel control with the heavier brakes.

Plus, didn't they also change some bushings in the rear from rubber to hard mounts?

So here's the thing: The spring/damper tuning was probably done with the intent to "keep the handling the same," meaning they weren't trying to make the car feel sportier or more hardcore, and they didn't want to give up any ride quality.

But retuning dampers to be exactly the same is not really possible. There's inherently going to be some difference, and in a situation like this, they would want to make sure that the difference errs on the sporty side and makes the car better.

As we know from the F80/82 world, BMW has made many un-advertised changes to those cars over their lives and a 2018 M3 is a completely different animal from a 2015 car. It's likely that there are minor changes to the M2C spring/damper tuning that add up to a slightly more responsive car but aren't a big enough deal for BMW to claim a unique suspension.
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      09-13-2018, 03:31 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afwares View Post
"Less sound proofing"

Someone in the comparison section of the forum (he owned the original, just bought an M2C) also says the M2C is much louder than the original M2. Did BMW actively try to make the car louder even beyond just the change in exhaust system?
I hope not
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      09-13-2018, 03:32 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
As a suspension engineer, I find it hard to believe that they didn't change the spring and damper tuning at all to accommodate the extra front end and unsprung weight. They must have at least changed the check load on the front springs to adjust ride height for the extra mass and made slight adjustments to the dampers to ensure balance and proper wheel control with the heavier brakes.

Plus, didn't they also change some bushings in the rear from rubber to hard mounts?

So here's the thing: The spring/damper tuning was probably done with the intent to "keep the handling the same," meaning they weren't trying to make the car feel sportier or more hardcore, and they didn't want to give up any ride quality.

But retuning dampers to be exactly the same is not really possible. There's inherently going to be some difference, and in a situation like this, they would want to make sure that the difference errs on the sporty side and makes the car better.

As we know from the F80/82 world, BMW has made many un-advertised changes to those cars over their lives and a 2018 M3 is a completely different animal from a 2015 car. It's likely that there are minor changes to the M2C spring/damper tuning that add up to a slightly more responsive car but aren't a big enough deal for BMW to claim a unique suspension.
Well, the part numbers are exactly the same. There are no new bushings/ball joints, that was recycled marketing BS (OG M2 already has them).
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      09-13-2018, 03:42 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig335d View Post
Are previous version owners going to defend against every positive M2C review?
If so, once the road reviews around the world start coming through then you are going to be busy.
Keep up the good work!
Chris Harris will have a glowing review, suddenly he will have no credibility.
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      09-13-2018, 03:53 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
Chris Harris will have a glowing review, suddenly he will have no credibility.
I think it just speaks to the fallibility of human senses. Without regular and recent time in both cars, people are susceptible to the power of suggestion.

For example, people saying they "can feel the extra weight over the nose" are probably just being cognitively influenced by their knowledge of the weight. Same thing with the "increased front end precision" from the strut brace. Just look at the number of original M2 reviews where people claim to feel suspension differences from Comfort to Sport with passive dampers.

The cars have to be driven back-to-back to get really trustworthy feedback.
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      09-13-2018, 04:00 PM   #35
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Def looks x100000 the part
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      09-13-2018, 04:01 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I think it just speaks to the fallibility of human senses. Without regular and recent time in both cars, people are susceptible to the power of suggestion.

For example, people saying they "can feel the extra weight over the nose" are probably just being cognitively influenced by their knowledge of the weight. Same thing with the "increased front end precision" from the strut brace. Just look at the number of original M2 reviews where people claim to feel suspension differences from Comfort to Sport with passive dampers.

The cars have to be driven back-to-back to get really trustworthy feedback.
It could actually be possible they are both fantastic cars, with slightly different personalities. Honestly both sides should stop fishing for validation.
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      09-13-2018, 04:31 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
It could actually be possible they are both fantastic cars, with slightly different personalities. Honestly both sides should stop fishing for validation.
Agree completely. My curiosity regarding sound comes from watching how BMW responds to the market. People lamented the lack of special mirrors and bucket seats in the original M2, and BMW responded with appropriate changes. This is what you want to happen - people ask, manufacturer pays attention and gives the people what they want. But conversely, I think it's safe to say there has been plenty of displeasure over the use of ASD. If we take the reviewer at face value, and give him the benefit of the doubt that people think he should get, then his claim that the car has less soundproofing would be curious. Of all the things people wanted in the new car, deleting more soundproofing and increasing decibels didn't seem high on peoples' lists.
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      09-13-2018, 05:08 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
Chris Harris will have a glowing review, suddenly he will have no credibility.
So you think his statements are correct and it's an accurate evaluation from a professional journalist ?

"Extra Amount of Steering feedback"

"New springs and damper settings"

"changes direction so much better"

"less sound proofing"
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      09-13-2018, 05:16 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3tekcorps View Post
So you think his statements are correct and it's an accurate evaluation from a professional journalist ?

"Extra Amount of Steering feedback"

"New springs and damper settings"

"changes direction so much better"

"less sound proofing"
Exactly, these guys fly around and drive a car for a few hours, in totally different conditions than they drove the M2 last. They also get fed inaccurate or misleading information from BMW.

Something like half of the OG M2 reviews commented about the adjustable suspension which doesn't even exist. Subjective evaluation is very prone to the influence of cognitive biases.
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      09-13-2018, 05:19 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
It could actually be possible they are both fantastic cars, with slightly different personalities. Honestly both sides should stop fishing for validation.
Of course they are both great. I am pretty sure that given the part numbers that are the same, these cars will drive almost identically other than the engine.

You can safely ignore most of the hyperbole from journalists as they are being influenced by the word Competition being in the name and the misleading presentations from BMW taking credit for things that are already in the OG M2 suspension. On the flip side, anyone who claims to "feel the weight" is probably full of shit, too.

If anyone thinks adding a single strut brace is going to transform the car, pretty sure they're nuts. The M4 already had this strut bar and was known for worse steering feel and worse turn-in than the OG M2 without this magical brace. The exact two things that many are claiming the strut brace to help with.
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      09-13-2018, 06:04 PM   #41
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Have had my M2C for two weeks now. I am an experienced driver but no 'expert'. Overall, the car is great. Amazing balance, great brakes, engine is powerful. Exhaust noise a bit drone-ey. Honestly, most of the critiques about cars is academic, because in real world driving they dont really matter. Unless you are a pro and or really seasoned performance driver. Every car has compromises. Drove an M2 at the dealer back to back before purchasing. Cant go wrong either car, for me the comp was noticeably better all around. My 02...
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      09-13-2018, 06:13 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E21-myfirstlove View Post
Have had my M2C for two weeks now. I am an experienced driver but no 'expert'. Overall, the car is great. Amazing balance, great brakes, engine is powerful. Exhaust noise a bit drone-ey. Honestly, most of the critiques about cars is academic, because in real world driving they dont really matter. Unless you are a pro and or really seasoned performance driver. Every car has compromises. Drove an M2 at the dealer back to back before purchasing. Cant go wrong either car, for me the comp was noticeably better all around. My 02...
This is a good point, and view overall.

My dad's OG M2 is awesome. I hope to get an M2C in about a year, and I am sure it will be awesome too. Both are great bang for the buck performers and have options not offered in much pricier categories (MT for those who want one).

They are easy cars to love.
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      09-13-2018, 07:29 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raysspl View Post
Good review & perspective. Sound aside, it's still tough to beat the 718s
specially the weight.... those 718s shine on the turns...
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      09-13-2018, 07:36 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
specially the weight.... those 718s shine on the turns...
What about the carbon strut brace on the M2C? Doesn't that overcome the laws of physics?
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