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      08-12-2020, 02:36 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbomeister View Post
having a moment (5-second grass stint): 08:08 (06:49 lap time)
Just a moment?...I'd have crapped that day's as well as the next day's pants.

The understeer perdures for so long it's scary. It doesn't look like he backed off the gas. He seems to have trusted that the car would pull through. He even kinda leaned towards the apex to see if that would help.
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      08-12-2020, 02:36 PM   #46
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The car gets dangerously close to the guardrail around the 6:50 mark of the lap
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      08-12-2020, 02:39 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigeroujimo View Post
Just a moment?...I'd have crapped that day's as well as the next day's pants.

The understeer perdures for so long it's scary. It doesn't look like he backed off the gas. He seems to have trusted that the car would pull through. He even kinda leaned towards the apex to see if that would help.
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      08-12-2020, 02:47 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigeroujimo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbomeister View Post
having a moment (5-second grass stint): 08:08 (06:49 lap time)
Just a moment?...I'd have crapped that day's as well as the next day's pants.
The understeer perdures for so long it's scary. It doesn't look like he backed off the gas. He seems to have trusted that the car would pull through. He even kinda leaned towards the apex to see if that would help.
Comfort | Sport | Sport+ | Off-Road.
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      08-12-2020, 03:08 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Pilot View Post
...or let's see a stock M2 CS on already outdated Michelin PSS. Even if we assume Cup 2s are only ~1sec quicker on a 2-mile course (which is a conservative number) compared to PSS, it still would mean M2CS would be 6-7sec slower on PSS around Nordschleife.
Remains to be seen what time could still be shaved off of the 07:50 M2 Competition lap time, but true that with the M2 CS package of 763M lightweight wheels + Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2 tires + M-CCB, the M2 CS has an objective advantage over an M2 Competition with 437M or 788M wheels + Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires (not even Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires) + steel brakes (original blue brakes or silver 2NH M Sport Brakes).
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      08-12-2020, 03:11 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drj161 View Post
Help me out here, from what I heard and from media, especially Jeremy Clarkson's review of the m4 gts was not positive. But it's still the fastest BMW here... Anyone can explain why the car was so 'hated' or disliked by the community?
That price?
Those wheels?
It's a BMW and an M3/4 so is to be judged!?
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      08-12-2020, 03:44 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
Except that if you really compare on price, the 981 GT4 used is about what the CS costs in the states, and the 718 is a good 30k more by the time you actually make it to the dotted line. So as of "today" the performance per dollar is the same then by this measure.

You can't buy any 911 but used for anywhere near CS money.
True, the 981 GT4s have held value very well, 5 years after their introduction, and obviously, their performance is still quite impressive as showcased here.

I know the M2CS here in the states starts at 85K. A GT4 starts at 100K. I think end of the day a GT4 will cost about 15K more but I also think they will hold value much better as the m3/4 CS models, though very limited, did not hold value or provide much better performance over the Competition - that seems to be the same formula here.
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      08-12-2020, 03:46 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHunk View Post
I'm impressed with M3 E46 CSL and M4 GTS still holding on.
Still fastest BMW on the ring.
Nope. Fastest BMW on the ring is M8 Competition currently.
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      08-12-2020, 03:50 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drj161 View Post
Help me out here, from what I heard and from media, especially Jeremy Clarkson's review of the m4 gts was not positive. But it's still the fastest BMW here... Anyone can explain why the car was so 'hated' or disliked by the community?
Probably the outrageous pricing and price gouging that occurred upon release for a car that could not beat it's rival (the 911 GT3) and was really not fun to drive on the street. The water injection system also proved to be pretty unreliable. To me, the motor was not special enough... basically an S55 with water injection and a tune..which anyone with a regular M4 could do for much cheaper aftermarket.
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      08-12-2020, 04:02 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leftkeylife View Post
True, the 981 GT4s have held value very well, 5 years after their introduction, and obviously, their performance is still quite impressive as showcased here.

I know the M2CS here in the states starts at 85K. A GT4 starts at 100K. I think end of the day a GT4 will cost about 15K more but I also think they will hold value much better as the m3/4 CS models, though very limited, did not hold value or provide much better performance over the Competition - that seems to be the same formula here.
Yep, I'm not a betting man, but I wouldn't bet on the CS doing as well on residual as the P-Cars . Always an outside chance (1M), but it's the rarity, not the rule.
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      08-12-2020, 04:07 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Remains to be seen what time could still be shaved off of the 07:50 M2 Competition lap time, but true that with the M2 CS package of 763M lightweight wheels + Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2 tires + M-CCB, the M2 CS has an objective advantage over an M2 Competition with 437M or 788M wheels + Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires (not even Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires) + steel brakes (original blue brakes or silver 2NH M Sport Brakes).
I'd really like to see the comp with the big brakes and sport cup2s vs M2CS with no ccb. Just to see what the add-ons really amount to on track. I guess it's fair to to the comparison with ccb because it's a factory option, but adds another variable.

That being said I'm ordering the slow speck car so no bragging rights for me.
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      08-12-2020, 04:17 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHunk View Post
I'm impressed with M3 E46 CSL and M4 GTS still holding on.
Still fastest BMW on the ring.
Nope. Fastest BMW on the ring is M8 Competition currently.
7:27.88 M4 GTS
7:32.79 M8 Competition

What am I missing?

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      08-12-2020, 04:28 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
Except that if you really compare on price, the 981 GT4 used is about what the CS costs in the states, and the 718 is a good 30k more by the time you actually make it to the dotted line. So as of "today" the performance per dollar is the same then by this measure.

You can't buy any 911 but used for anywhere near CS money.
This is correct. A new base 911 is around $100k before options. More money than a M2 CS.
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      08-12-2020, 04:51 PM   #58
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Holy crap that M5 is fast!
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      08-12-2020, 04:59 PM   #59
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List of sportauto lap times. from 3 years ago for reference

AMG GT R - 7:11
918 Spyder - 7:13

488 GTB - 7:22
Apollo Sport - 7:24
997 GT2 RS - 7:24
Aventador LP700-4 - 7:25
Huracan LP610-4 - 7:28
991 GT3 RS - 7:28
MP4-12C - 7:28

997 GT3 RS 4.0 - 7:30
991 GT3 - 7:32
R8 V10+ (2nd gen) - 7:32
F12 - 7:33
R8 GT - 7:34
M4 GTS - 7:34
991 Turbo S - 7:34
991.2 C2S - 7:34
SLS AMG - 7:35
650s - 7:35
Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera - 7:38

Murcielago LP670-4 SV - 7:42
981 Cayman GT4 - 7:42
997.2 Turbo S - 7:44
R8 V10+ (1st gen) - 7:45
981 Boxster Spyder - 7:49

E46 M3 CSL - 7:50
V12 Vantage S - 7:52
M4 Coupe - 7:52
M5 - 7:54
W212 E63 AMG S - 7:55
Evora 400 - 7:59
CLS 63 AMG - 7:59
RS5 - 7:59

W204 C63 Coupe - 8:01
M2 - 8:01
996 GT3 - 8:03
981 Cayman S - 8:04
A45 AMG - 8:04
RS6 Avant - 8:05
Focus RS - 8:06
987 Cayman R - 8:06

Leon Cupra 280 - 8:14
Civic Type R - 8:15
C6 Corvette - 8:15
M235i - 8:16
TTS - 8:16
M135i - 8:18

RS3 - 8:20
WRX STi - 8:26
Golf GTI Mk.7 - 8:29
Megane RS Mk.3 - 8:29

Mini JCW - 8:35

Corsa 1.6T - 8:40
S1 - 8:41
86 - 8:45

Clio RS - 8:59
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      08-12-2020, 06:10 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drj161 View Post
... Anyone can explain why the car was so 'hated' or disliked by the community?
I saw one with a $50k "market adjustment" in my local SF-area dealership.

(Off topic: I got a ride in an M4 GTS on a track day at Thunderhill 5-mile a couple years ago. From the passenger seat, it felt a little more powerful and a little stiffer than a regular M4. But the brakes were crazy farm boy strong. I felt like I was hanging from the harness.)
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      08-12-2020, 07:39 PM   #61
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I’m surprised it’s that much slower than the f80 m3 CS?
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      08-12-2020, 08:53 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHunk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHunk View Post
I'm impressed with M3 E46 CSL and M4 GTS still holding on.
Still fastest BMW on the ring.
Nope. Fastest BMW on the ring is M8 Competition currently.
7:27.88 M4 GTS
7:32.79 M8 Competition

What am I missing?

He is using Sport auto times. It's quite obvious the driving skills at sport auto are not up to a factory BMW drivers skills. Call in Jörg Weidinger.
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      08-12-2020, 09:40 PM   #63
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They should have ditched that adaptive suspension from the M3/M4 ZCP and simply use the full suspension from the M2 CS Racing. Then we can run 10.5 inch wheels front and rear shod with 305s.

The lack of a decent footprint on the F87 M2 (M should have widen the fenders by 1cm on each side, both F&R) is the main reason why I am looking forward to the G series platform.
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      08-12-2020, 10:05 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
They should have ditched that adaptive suspension from the M3/M4 ZCP and simply use the full suspension from the M2 CS Racing. Then we can run 10.5 inch wheels front and rear shod with 305s.

The lack of a decent footprint on the F87 M2 (M should have widen the fenders by 1cm on each side, both F&R) is the main reason why I am looking forward to the G series platform.
Could you imagine the little m2 with some sticky 305 tires. It would probably suck a lot of the fun out of it, but man it would be quick around a track.
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      08-12-2020, 11:17 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHunk View Post
7:27.88 M4 GTS
7:32.79 M8 Competition

What am I missing?

Sport Auto lap vs Factory lap. Not apples to apples. Sport Auto did a 7:37 with the GTS, which is slower than what they did with the M8.
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      08-12-2020, 11:23 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCP View Post
He is using Sport auto times. It's quite obvious the driving skills at sport auto are not up to a factory BMW drivers skills. Call in Jörg Weidinger.
I wouldn't say it is driving skill, but rather seat time in the car. The factory drivers get to do many many laps to try to get the ultimate best. For the Sport Auto Supertest, the driver gets one warm up lap and one flying lap in the tested car, that's it.
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