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      09-10-2020, 12:03 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Turbomeister View Post
Interesting , but who cares about who wins in the straight line !! Are the fun ? Yes !! Is 6MT standart? Hell yeah !
X a million. The PDK would be faster, AWD would grip better, 4 doors would be more practical... then you end up with a very boring car to drive!
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      09-10-2020, 12:09 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by AlterZgo View Post
Sadly that hasn't changed in the new GT4 and will never change. I understand Porsche wants to create distance btw the 911 and the Cayman/Boxsters but why do that at the expense of completely ruining one aspect of the driving experience? Watching videos of people rowing through the gears of the GT4 is painful and ridiculous to see how high they are geared.
Porsche claims that they physically can't shorten 1st and 2nd gears in their transmission in addition to not wanting to spend the money to develop a new manual transmission just for the 718 4.0 cars. They primarily design their cars for their home country where performance at 150mph+, cruising RPM at 100mph, etc. are important on the Autobahn so they wouldn't want to change their final drive ratio.

Here in the US, if I got a GT4 or more likely a GTS 4.0, the first thing I would do is install the Autoquest final drive mod to shorten all six gears by 19%.

I've driven plenty of 981 GT4s and my overriding memory of them is wishing they had more of a feeling of acceleration in-gear and would rip to redline more rapidly, aside from this I don't have many complaints.
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      09-10-2020, 12:47 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by AlterZgo View Post
Sadly that hasn't changed in the new GT4 and will never change. I understand Porsche wants to create distance btw the 911 and the Cayman/Boxsters but why do that at the expense of completely ruining one aspect of the driving experience? Watching videos of people rowing through the gears of the GT4 is painful and ridiculous to see how high they are geared.
Not meant to be abrasive, but have you driven a 718 GT4? I own one. The torque on the car is monumentally better than the 981. The gearing is not an issue in this car whatsoever. And just deleting the OPF filters adds another 32 lb ft at 2400 rpms (and power and torque all the way through the rev range). The area under the curve is great with one of the best torque curves for N/A engines Iíve seen or felt. It never feels like itís lacking for torque , and the engine power is still rising as you hit 8000 rpms where most N/A cars start to flatten out or decline and turbo engines lose steam way sooner.
This car is plenty fast and on the track it is absolutely a blast and puts down some seriously fast times that rival or better cars with much more power. On top of it, the manual itself is to die for. The top end of of this car is mega.
Furthermore, for comparison:

991 GT3: first gear 52 mph, second gear 82 mph And no one complains here.

Last edited by HeelToeShift; 09-10-2020 at 01:10 PM..
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      09-10-2020, 01:15 PM   #26
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Didn't really care who won, but it was fun watching them lose inches each time they changed gears. Having a 6speed in this day and age isn't about outright performance, absolutely still there, but just more about engagement...
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      09-10-2020, 01:27 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by to_riffic View Post
Didn't really care who won, but it was fun watching them lose inches each time they changed gears. Having a 6speed in this day and age isn't about outright performance, absolutely still there, but just more about engagement...
Totally and completely agree. I bought a GT4 for the naturally aspirated motor and sublime manual and a driving experience that only a GT3 manual or Touring can rival.
Some turbo motors are great, but I still heavily prefer a manual N/A car and they are not going to be around much more. Turbo motors will be around for quite a while and with the exception for the few I truly like, they are largely boring and sound bad.
I also have my name down on a GT4 RS because as much as I enjoy manual, PDK really shows you what the pinnacle and epitome of a dual clutch is and really donít care much for the ZF8 that is proliferating every car. Nothing special about it if youíve driven a good dual clutch.
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      09-10-2020, 03:08 PM   #28
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M2 CS with 450hp is almost the same as 5year old GT4 with 390hp, situation is much worse for M2 CS if you compare them on the track.
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      09-10-2020, 03:11 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
Totally and completely agree. I bought a GT4 for the naturally aspirated motor and sublime manual and a driving experience that only a GT3 manual or Touring can rival.
Some turbo motors are great, but I still heavily prefer a manual N/A car and they are not going to be around much more. Turbo motors will be around for quite a while and with the exception for the few I truly like, they are largely boring and sound bad.
I also have my name down on a GT4 RS because as much as I enjoy manual, PDK really shows you what the pinnacle and epitome of a dual clutch is and really donít care much for the ZF8 that is proliferating every car. Nothing special about it if youíve driven a good dual clutch.
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Originally Posted by BigHunk View Post
M2 CS with 450hp is almost the same as 5year old GT4 with 390hp, situation is much worse for M2 CS if you compare them on the track.
Of course. But I'm also fully aware I'm no pro...so whatever a PDK cuts off from my PR isn't nowhere near what a Pro's PR will be, and I've fully accepted that. If anything, I think throwing in manuals back into Pro racing would actually make things that much more interesting to see whose able to not only manage tires and gas, but whose capable of getting their heel-toe right into each corner, every single lap. I think that'd make for more exciting racing.
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      09-10-2020, 03:13 PM   #30
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This is making me want a GTS 4.0 even more.

So what's this about a rear diff mod?
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      09-10-2020, 05:50 PM   #31
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There's no future buyer actually comparing these two cars. There's BMW fans and Porsche fans. They are two different cars at two different price points. It was fun to listen to the bro talk between the two. While a manual is fun, it's not the best transmission for a drag race.
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      09-10-2020, 06:59 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GerryM5 View Post
There's no future buyer actually comparing these two cars. There's BMW fans and Porsche fans. They are two different cars at two different price points. It was fun to listen to the bro talk between the two. While a manual is fun, it's not the best transmission for a drag race.
These were the exact two cars I was comparing, and I was all set to buy the 981 GT4 until I drove it and didn't like it. Reevaluated my list and desires and ended up on the CS.
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      09-10-2020, 09:53 PM   #33
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These Porsche vs BMW threads are about as bad ones about religion or politics
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      09-10-2020, 10:19 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
Porsche claims that they physically can't shorten 1st and 2nd gears in their transmission in addition to not wanting to spend the money to develop a new manual transmission just for the 718 4.0 cars. They primarily design their cars for their home country where performance at 150mph+, cruising RPM at 100mph, etc. are important on the Autobahn so they wouldn't want to change their final drive ratio.

Here in the US, if I got a GT4 or more likely a GTS 4.0, the first thing I would do is install the Autoquest final drive mod to shorten all six gears by 19%.

I've driven plenty of 981 GT4s and my overriding memory of them is wishing they had more of a feeling of acceleration in-gear and would rip to redline more rapidly, aside from this I don't have many complaints.
Itís a joke if they claim they canít physically shorten the gears as there are small companies in the US who have done just that without the billions of dollars and engineering resources of VAG.

As for autobahn cruising, M3/M4s have reasonable lower speed gears as well as well balanced gears for higher speed cruising. This is not a one or the other proposition. The original 930 turbo had a 4 speed manual for god sake. Iím sure they could figure it out with a properly sorted 6MT or even the 7MT if they really wanted to have closer gear spacing.

If Chevrolet and Ford can offer the option of several final drive ratios for corvettes and mustangs, Porsche can swing lower gearing for all the other markets outside of Germany where there are speed limits.
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      09-10-2020, 10:36 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
Not meant to be abrasive, but have you driven a 718 GT4? I own one. The torque on the car is monumentally better than the 981. The gearing is not an issue in this car whatsoever. And just deleting the OPF filters adds another 32 lb ft at 2400 rpms (and power and torque all the way through the rev range). The area under the curve is great with one of the best torque curves for N/A engines Iíve seen or felt. It never feels like itís lacking for torque , and the engine power is still rising as you hit 8000 rpms where most N/A cars start to flatten out or decline and turbo engines lose steam way sooner.
This car is plenty fast and on the track it is absolutely a blast and puts down some seriously fast times that rival or better cars with much more power. On top of it, the manual itself is to die for. The top end of of this car is mega.
Furthermore, for comparison:

991 GT3: first gear 52 mph, second gear 82 mph And no one complains here.
Congrats on your GT4. Iím sure itís amazing. No need to justify your decision to me. Enjoy your car in good health. Iím not buying or selling my POV.

Iíve never driven a GT4. Iíve only driven air cooled 911s. With that said, based on what people say, plus the fact that Iím used to my tuned M3 with 500 lb/ft torque at relatively low RPMs, Iím sure I will be disappointed with the acceleration of a GT4. I imagine the acceleration would be similar to the E60 M5 which sounded amazing to wind out that V10 to 8500 RPM and hear it scream... but alas i told my friend his car felt like a big block Integra Type R... glorious at 6K+ RPMs... but still lacking in torque at lower RPMs.

With respect to the GT3, people complain about the long gearing in that car too.

Iím sure the 6MT in the GT4 is sublime... Iíd just be disappointed that I donít get to row through the gears as much due to the super tall gearing.
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      09-10-2020, 10:41 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GerryM5 View Post
There's no future buyer actually comparing these two cars. There's BMW fans and Porsche fans. They are two different cars at two different price points. It was fun to listen to the bro talk between the two. While a manual is fun, it's not the best transmission for a drag race.
That's not true.. used 981 GT4's are about the same price as new M2CS..so it's not beyond possibility that you would compare the two

Last edited by leemik; 09-10-2020 at 10:49 PM..
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      09-10-2020, 10:57 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by AlterZgo View Post
Congrats on your GT4. Iím sure itís amazing. No need to justify your decision to me. Enjoy your car in good health. Iím not buying or selling my POV.

Iíve never driven a GT4. Iíve only driven air cooled 911s. With that said, based on what people say, plus the fact that Iím used to my tuned M3 with 500 lb/ft torque at relatively low RPMs, Iím sure I will be disappointed with the acceleration of a GT4. I imagine the acceleration would be similar to the E60 M5 which sounded amazing to wind out that V10 to 8500 RPM and hear it scream... but alas i told my friend his car felt like a big block Integra Type R... glorious at 6K+ RPMs... but still lacking in torque at lower RPMs.

With respect to the GT3, people complain about the long gearing in that car too.

Iím sure the 6MT in the GT4 is sublime... Iíd just be disappointed that I donít get to row through the gears as much due to the super tall gearing.
Thanks! Not justifying but simply stating those claims are well overrated hyperbole if you ask me. Also, I probably should have mentioned, Iíve not really gone over 5k rpm yet (only just hit 300 miles) and just donít find it to be an issue. It just goes with the torque available. Plus this is a sub 3200 lb car, so most anything not only feels heavy compared to this, but is quite heavier. Throttle response is some of the most immediate Iíve ever experienced as well. I think better than the mighty 991 GT3 and on par with the .2 cars.
The GT4 runs 11.9@120 mph which quite a bit faster than I recall an e60 m5 running (12.3@115/116) or an f80 M3/4 with a manual box (12.4@115). What I find here is that the toque feels much better than what I remember an M5 feeling like and certainly doesnít have the torque of the F80, but it also rewards for more than either at high RPMs.
Either way, I am beyond happy and also excited for what the GT4 RS will deliver and also the 992 GT3, too. Will also be hitting the track in a couple weeks with this car for its first track day as well so should be fun.

Last edited by HeelToeShift; 09-10-2020 at 11:04 PM..
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      09-10-2020, 11:03 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by leemik View Post
That's not true.. used 981 GT4's are about the same price as new M2CS..so it's not beyond possibility that you would compare the two
Yes the 981s are generally in the 80-105 depending on spec and miles. That runs you about sticker price from 2016 on most of these.
I do think these are quite different cars that perform quite differently too. I think itís wonderful each are available with manual. That right there is a substantial win! Other than that, one is a light mid-engine car, the other is a pretty heavy big power car with tons more hp and torque.
I want to see this new-age 928 come to fruition. That would be cool.
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      09-11-2020, 01:44 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHunk View Post
M2 CS with 450hp is almost the same as 5year old GT4 with 390hp, situation is much worse for M2 CS if you compare them on the track.
I believe the GT4 weighs quite a bit less!

The M2 has always been a bit of a porker!
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      09-11-2020, 02:51 AM   #40
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Man do they both look and sound amazing!
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      09-11-2020, 03:02 AM   #41
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Doing drag race tests with a GT4 is like testing its grocery getter skills. This car isn‘t about straight line performance. After the first cornering you now this and you really don‘t want to get out of the car. Steering feel is sublime and the rawness of the car, the stiff chasis components give you a great driving experience. By the was: I‘m talking about the 718 GT4.
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      09-11-2020, 04:00 AM   #42
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They both look good although the ride height of the M2cs looks like a 4x4 sat next to the GT4.
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      09-11-2020, 06:42 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GerryM5 View Post
There's no future buyer actually comparing these two cars. There's BMW fans and Porsche fans. They are two different cars at two different price points. It was fun to listen to the bro talk between the two. While a manual is fun, it's not the best transmission for a drag race.
Compare the M2CS and the GTS 4.0 (which is essentially the same car, and no stupid allocation required to order) and they are definitely cross shop able. People who buy a sports car for drag racing are just silly.
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      09-11-2020, 11:30 AM   #44
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Everything Tiffís in is good.
Both of these cars should hold decent value.
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