[Gunnerforlife]

The ring time tested by sport auto for the M2C was 7.52.36. the 7:50 is BMW official time. The CS 7:42.99 is also tested by sport auto.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ASAP

The ring time is a 7:50 of the Comp vs your 7:42 in the CS... which again, translates to about a second a minute... which is easily attributable to the Cup tires and the CS power tune (the ring favors higher HP cars on the straights)...

With that being said... BMW needs to be extra careful with how it markets its cars... it said the M2 comp lives at the racetrack and with the M2 CSs every piece of marketing puts it on a track. If those don't translate to times and performance... everyone other than the fanboys will soon say goodbye. It would be even more shocking if this didn't translate to results on their most most hardcore model in the entire range. If you've been watching the G80 M3 marketing (where I am already banned for keeping it a bit too real)... no one has driven the car yet even though it comes out next month to owners and there are no performance times released... In addition, virtually all marketing has been social media influencer based.

If I do the transposition with my M4cs, I am convinced it is about how the entire package works in unison, not just the tires. The fact that I am ~2.5 seconds faster around my local track (~1:50 lap) in my M4cs than I was in my previous M4 ON THE SAME TIRES is very telling to me. The first time I took my M4cs on track, I was ~2 seconds faster than the best lap I ever did in 4 years and 100+ track days of owning on my previous M4. The tires matter, but how everything is tuned to maximize those R-comp tires matters even more. And it is not only about the objective metrics, it is also how the car feels as a whole, the M4cs offers a more enjoyable and engaging driving experience over the base or CP M4.

The M4cs is that much better and I have little doubt the same applies to the M2cs.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

If I do the transposition with my M4cs, I am convinced it is about how the entire package works in unison, not just the tires. The fact that I am ~2.5 seconds faster around my local track (~1:50 lap) in my M4cs than I was in my previous M4 ON THE SAME TIRES is very telling to me. The first time I took my M4cs on track, I was ~2 seconds faster than the best lap I ever did in 4 years and 100+ track days of owning on my previous M4. The tires matter, but how everything is tuned to maximize those R-comp tires matters even more. And it is not only about the objective metrics, it is also how the car feels as a whole, the M4cs offers a more enjoyable and engaging driving experience over the base or CP M4.

The M4cs is that much better and I have little doubt the same applies to the M2cs.

Does the M4cs not have much more in weight savings over the M4 vs M2cs and its comparable model?

It has placard door cards and a manual AC w no HK stereo, correct? Of note, is also the fact that the M2C is artificially heavier due to the 788M anchor weight wheels... also does the M4cs not wear wider tires over the regular M4? Yeah, I agree wu small updates here and they make a difference but some are obvious and no engineering decisions went into those.

[Germanauto]

Very high praise. Just remarkable work by the guys and gals in the M division on this project. This will be one of the final ICE, manual option German cars ever made. Cherish it while it's still around.

[///Pip]

M2C and M2CS ... both superb cars at their respective price points

I'm just glad to be driving one of these two cars ... knowing the G82 M4 is over 13 inches longer and 200kg heavier

And I got a bad feeling BMW is going to make the next M2 bigger, heavier, more refined

Enjoying what could very well be BMW's last great M car

[Hedoniste]

Still continue to post about the CS:

[ASAP]

It would appear there are a number of people on there that have already called him out on that exact tire comment and he doesn't have a real answer... I find it suspect when he refers to the EDC suspension which is identical to a base M4 making the car this much better... and he says he hit a BUMP... Where? Track or street... if on a street then sure... from a track perspective that would make no difference because again - MPS corner balanced coils would still be preferred.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by ASAP

It would appear there are a number of people on there that have already called him out on that exact tire comment and he doesn't have a real answer... I find it suspect when he refers to the EDC suspension which is identical to a base M4 making the car this much better... and he says he hit a BUMP... Where? Track or street... if on a street then sure... from a track perspective that would make no difference because again - MPS corner balanced coils would still be preferred.

Yeah, I suspect that the engineers designing the CS set out to make it the BEST version of the M2, while the marketing department set out to sell the FASTEST version of the M2. The CS is both things, don’t get me wrong, but at its core I kinda think it’s trying to be a great street car that just so happens to be faster than the C on track. But that’s not how BMW are selling it, because that’s not as exciting or bold of a message.

This is speculation based on reviews and stuff though, personally I have not driven a CS.

[MDuckie]

Originally Posted by ASAP

It would appear there are a number of people on there that have already called him out on that exact tire comment and he doesn't have a real answer... I find it suspect when he refers to the EDC suspension which is identical to a base M4 making the car this much better... and he says he hit a BUMP... Where? Track or street... if on a street then sure... from a track perspective that would make no difference because again - MPS corner balanced coils would still be preferred.

Just read through the comments. Only one person mentioned the tires but didn't ask for a reason why putting tires on an M2C wouldn't make it as good. So of course he didn't answer with a reason why, simply stating that the tires wouldn't do it.

You seem to have it out for the CS... lol.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Moflow

Yeah, I suspect that the engineers designing the CS set out to make it the BEST version of the M2, while the marketing department set out to sell the FASTEST version of the M2. The CS is both things, don’t get me wrong, but at its core I kinda think it’s trying to be a great street car that just so happens to be faster than the C on track. But that’s not how BMW are selling it, because that’s not as exciting or bold of a message.

This is speculation based on reviews and stuff though, personally I have not driven a CS.

Exactly... that is spot on my impression. There is no doubt it's the best M2 yet and the best version of an already great car... but is it significantly greater in the area where you would expect the "CS" moniker to be? You and your additional $30K USD need to make that decision on your own...

Ironically they made the M5CS count more in the area where you would expect the "CS" to be great by dropping 230 lbs from that tank. I am just confused at some of the decisions being made today and it certainly feels like they are lowest path of resistance to progress and many feel like quick cash grabs.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by MDuckie

Just read through the comments. Only one person mentioned the tires but didn't ask for a reason why putting tires on an M2C wouldn't make it as good. So of course he didn't answer with a reason why, simply stating that the tires wouldn't do it.

You seem to have it out for the CS... lol.

I like the M2CS a lot because it's a car almost no one can offer today... however it's value is simply not there for me compared to the other offering 1 step below... That value will need to be for everybody on their own... albeit I suspect there will be no issues selling this car because there is nothing like it and so few are available.

[medphysdave]

In the early stages of comparison the cup2 tire was credited for most, if not all, the performance difference between the CS and comp. I haven't heard much about the tire recently.

I'd still like to see a stock m2C with the cup2 connect tire compared side by side.

I don't have any experience with the M2comp. My speculation is that with the same tire the performance numbers won't be too different. The feel of the car will still be different.

[mfarrzhp]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I like the M2CS a lot because it's a car almost no one can offer today... however it's value is simply not there for me compared to the other offering 1 step below... That value will need to be for everybody on their own... albeit I suspect there will be no issues selling this car because there is nothing like it and so few are available.

Have you driven it? It is up there with the best of them in terms of driving experience. It's not just how fast a pro can get it around a track, it's about how it feels on the road and track to the above average driver.

The M2C is a great car, but it's not the same visually or for driving feel. The M240i is more car than anyone needs on the road. You are at jail speeds in less than 10 seconds in any of these cars.

I get that it's expensive, but you get what you pay for. I personally wouldn't get the CCBs for $8,500 when the steel brakes are more than adequate for 99% of drivers, but certainly wouldn't knock those who opt for them.

Yes, you can build a track weapon M2 for less $$$. You can buy a C7 Z06 or used GTR for less money as well.

If you haven't driven it, I suggest you try to get seat time in one.

[maxxfish]

BMWs have always been better than the sum of their parts, it's part of their design theory. So lets just put this to rest, and say that all of the differences of the CS combined make it a better driver's car (I didn't say faster car) than a Comp. Whether it's worth the extra $30K or not is really a subjective decision.

BTW I haven't heard one CS owner complain that they're unhappy with the car vs. what they spent on it. But I have heard a lot of Comp owners (who have probably never driven one) complain about it. Can we move on yet?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Does the M4cs not have much more in weight savings over the M4 vs M2cs and its comparable model?

It has placard door cards and a manual AC w no HK stereo, correct? Of note, is also the fact that the M2C is artificially heavier due to the 788M anchor weight wheels... also does the M4cs not wear wider tires over the regular M4? Yeah, I agree wu small updates here and they make a difference but some are obvious and no engineering decisions went into those.

I'd say the M2cs has even more weight reduction over then M2competition than the M4cs has. The M2cs has CF hood, CF roof, Single zone climate control, CF center console and 763M wheels. For reference, below are test cars as weighed by AM&S (they are quite reliable one weights) and all are DCT for a better apples-tp-apples comparison:

• 1,561kg M2 base
• 1,630kg M2 competition
• 1,588kg M2cs

• 1,615kg M4 base
• 1,638kg M4 competition package
• 1,600kg M4cs

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I'd say the M2cs has even more weight reduction over then M2competition than the M4cs has. The M2cs has CF hood, CF roof, Single zone climate control, CF center console and 763M wheels. For reference, below are test cars as weighed by AM&S (they are quite reliable one weights) and all are DCT for a better apples-tp-apples comparison:

• 1,561kg M2 base
• 1,630kg M2 competition
• 1,588kg M2cs

• 1,612kg M4 base
• 1,638kg M4 competition package
• 1,600kg M4cs

Sure, but the M2C was always hampered with heavier brakes, wheels and a detuned motor and never recieved a cf roof in the first place... so it's not as if there were many efforts made to make the CS lighter but efforts were instead made to hamper the M2C from stepping on M4C toes... or perhaps they knew from the get go a CS would be made.

It's really telling when putting on the 437Ms from the OG M2 and its lighter blue brakes w a simple tune from the M4C would have already made a world of difference.

[ptgltw]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Sure, but the M2C was always hampered with heavier brakes, wheels and a detuned motor and never recieved a cf roof in the first place...

Of course it was. It's a 2 series with a M4 engine. It has to be detuned.

BMW has maxed out the M2C at that price point. For those who want a little more you can buy the M2CS.

M2C is one of the cheapest / best sports cars for $60k. It fills the niche very nicely.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Sure, but the M2C was always hampered with heavier brakes, wheels and a detuned motor and never recieved a cf roof in the first place... so it's not as if there were many efforts made to make the CS lighter but efforts were instead made to hamper the M2C from stepping on M4C toes... or perhaps they knew from the get go a CS would be made.

It's really telling when putting on the 437Ms from the OG M2 and its lighter blue brakes w a simple tune from the M4C would have already made a world of difference.

Sorry man, but you're sounding like the classic sourpuss...

They skimped on the M2competition weight reduction mainly to keep cost/price down, and it is what makes the M2competition a very compelling proposition at its price point. 437M vs 588M weight difference is 4.8kg, yet the M2cs is still lighter than the M2competition by 42kg...

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Sorry man, but you're sounding like the classic sourpuss...

They skimped on the M2competition weight reduction mainly to keep cost/price down. 437M vs 588M weight difference is 4.8kg and the M2cs in the quoted weights above has the same iron rotors as the M2competition. The M2cs is still lighter than the M2 competition by 42kg...

I hear a lot of people defending their very expensive purchases when in reality a step backwards to lighter brakes and wheels from the OG M2 w better tires and a tune for $400 would result in borderline similar results. Again... if it truly is all about feel, no issue at all... like i've said 20 times it's the best M2 thay exists... you and only you can value whether it's worth $30k extra.

[6CylindersEveryDay]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Sure, but the M2C was always hampered with heavier brakes, wheels and a detuned motor and never recieved a cf roof in the first place... so it's not as if there were many efforts made to make the CS lighter but efforts were instead made to hamper the M2C from stepping on M4C toes... or perhaps they knew from the get go a CS would be made.

It's really telling when putting on the 437Ms from the OG M2 and its lighter blue brakes w a simple tune from the M4C would have already made a world of difference.

Most people buying an M2 CS are middle aged and up with a lot of car ownership history, some of us have played around with modifications quite a bit. I think virtually all M2 CS owners are well aware of what can be done with aftermarket modifications, and if that's what we wanted that's how we would have spent our money. There is a lot of value in buying something that's already modified and tuned (and very well tested) tastefully from the factory. Specifically having the suspension dialed in perfectly for the street from the factory is extremely important to me, that's the main thing that pushed me over the edge to buy this car.

I have gone through aftermarket suspension modifications in the past and it usually takes several iterations to get everything dialed in perfectly for that elusive combination of comfort and performance on less than perfect roads. If you have a brilliant shop near you and they aren't so busy that it's difficult to get in, then sure modifications can be fun to play around with and keep a vehicle interesting as things change. A brilliant shop installing high quality suspension components usually isn't that much of a money saving proposition, and I am very happy to get an excellent street friendly setup right out of the factory with a full warranty.

Edit: Also, anybody with car modification experience knows that you don't get much of that money back on the back end when selling the car (assuming you aren't a mechanic doing your own labor). Modifying an M2 competition to have the power, suspension, and cool factor (seats, hood etc.) of a CS vs. just buying a CS isn't really going to save you much money overall at the end when you sell some day.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by 6CylindersEveryDay

Most people buying an M2 CS are middle aged and up with a lot of car ownership history, some of us have played around with modifications quite a bit. I think virtually all M2 CS owners are well aware of what can be done with aftermarket modifications, and if that's what we wanted that's how we would have spent our money. There is a lot of value in buying something that's already modified and tuned (and very well tested) tastefully from the factory. Specifically having the suspension dialed in perfectly for the street from the factory is extremely important to me, that's the main thing that pushed me over the edge to buy this car.

I have gone through aftermarket suspension modifications in the past and it usually takes several iterations to get everything dialed in perfectly for that elusive combination of comfort and performance on less than perfect roads. If you have a brilliant shop near you and they aren't so busy that it's difficult to get in, then sure modifications can be fun to play around with and keep a vehicle interesting as things change. A brilliant shop installing high quality suspension components usually isn't that much of a money saving proposition, and I am very happy to get an excellent street friendly setup right out of the factory with a full warranty.

Edit: Also, anybody with car modification experience knows that you don't get much of that money back on the back end when selling the car (assuming you aren't a mechanic doing your own labor). Modifying an M2 competition to have the power, suspension, and cool factor (seats, hood etc.) of a CS vs. just buying a CS isn't really going to save you much money overall at the end when you sell some day.

This makes complete sense and there is nothing wrong with that... that's exactly why I bought a new M2C without the idea of modifying it... however, it would appear I placed far too much trust into BMW because the stock suspension sucks and has absurd rebound dampening... which is why I am looking at the M performance suspension... this is similarly why I highly question their tuning on the CS... the out of the box setup really doesn't work for demanding enthusiasts irrelevant of brand... except maybe Porsche?

[ptgltw]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I hear a lot of people defending their very expensive purchases when in reality a step backwards to lighter brakes and wheels from the OG M2 w better tires and a tune for $400 would result in borderline similar results. Again... if it truly is all about feel, no issue at all... like i've said 20 times it's the best M2 thay exists... you and only you can value whether it's worth $30k extra.

I can say it's worth it the extra $30. I had both. The M2CS is a DIFFERENT CAR. If you won't take my word for it, take Jonny's word for it.

BMW hasn't made a car like this in a long time. And yes we need to respect our elders as old timer BMW owners will say.

It wouldn't be as good as it is without the previous generation 2 series cars that came before it.