06-16-2018, 12:21 AM | #67 | |
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It will take less force to bent that piece of metal next time round. I can’t tell you how much weaker by percentage as there are myriad variables involved but the car simply won’t drive the same again. Last edited by Karmic Man; 06-16-2018 at 12:37 AM.. |
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06-16-2018, 12:53 AM | #68 |
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I'm glad I had the e92 335i for many years before I bought my M2. It taught me a lot about the feeling of a more powerful rear wheel drive car, especially in the wet.
The most important thing is that there were no physical injuries to your person though. |
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06-16-2018, 06:40 AM | #69 | |
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Completely erroneous. Before you start thinking about metal fatigue... look up metal memory .... the ability of metal to return to the shape it was molded in. As you mention there are many variables involved , one of them being the thicker the metal, the more resistant it is to bending , and it also has a better memory effect. Of course metal fatigue *is* an issue but that would be after multiple (as in *many* , not a couple ) manipulations of the metal. In other words, 1- don't quit your day job. 2- I was correct, you absolutely need a little more faith in your repair shop. A good repair shop will never attempt to repair something they know is irreparably damaged. That would clearly be putting the customer in a dangerous situation. That's generally not good for return business. Your opinion on repairs seems to be at best formed from incorrect information and perhaps minimal personal experience. The best way to keep that is to immediately trade in any damaged vehicle , that way you never will be exposed to a situation that could change your opinion |
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06-16-2018, 09:09 AM | #70 | |
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It has nothing to do with the quality of the repair shop. The quality of the repair shop is of course important but it can't change physics. Also even good repair shops have variations on the quality of work depending on the workers mood of the day. I wouldn't recommend OP to rest his faith on a 'good repair shop' if the frame has to be straighten out on a frame rack. It's for his benefit, not mine. If the frame is fine then there is a reason to keep the M2 but he should still request the body shop to change the subframe to a new one from BMW. So... 1. I will still keep my job 2. Don't put too much faith in a repair shop no matter how good it is Last edited by Karmic Man; 06-16-2018 at 09:25 AM.. |
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06-16-2018, 09:54 AM | #71 | ||
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thanks Chicken Little.. but There is an entire repair industry that disproves you. I'll just leave these here and move on. https://www.explainthatstuff.com/how...ory-works.html https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/collisio...ns/metal-shop/ https://www.i-car.com/ As stated previously.. *your* best bet is to sell and move on.. The OP ( as well as other ) can of course make his own (hopefully more well informed) decision. Having been in the OP position before personally, as an owner of an E30 M3 that I crashed and caused thousands of dollars of damage to in 1996... I can unequivocally state that after $14K repairs to what at the time was a 21K vehicle.. .. my E30 M3 was repaired MAGNIFICENTLY. I loved it, tracked it and cared for it another ELEVEN years after the collision repair and never had an issue with the repair work (paint matched.. never faded... never had any clearcoat issues ) or the metal work which included FRAME REPAIR. (EEK!!!) Years after the repairs.. I installed an aftermarket coilover suspension and was able to be aligned easily. When I decided to improve the engine bay by adding a STRUT bar.. I simply jacked up one side of the car (the common install method) and undid the 3 bolts on each shock tower.. and bam it dropped into place and I bolted it down. This is after YEARS and many miles of being TRACKED after the repair. Since I am waxing poetic.. the little shop that did my repairs is still around and they deserve a shout out. https://www.yelp.com/biz/jons-body-shop-lafayette Quote:
Believe you me... when I was sitting in your shoes... It was very comforting to talk to my shop guys who were ABSOLUTELY CONFIDENT in their SKILLZ, excited to do their work.. and excited to demonstrate the quality work they can do. That confidence was reassuring and they did indeed do excellent work. Hopefully when you get your car back, you find that this is the case for you as well Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 06-16-2018 at 11:15 AM.. |
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06-16-2018, 10:57 AM | #72 |
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I can't speak with nearly as much authority as M3 Adjuster, but I do know that the entire paintless dent removal industry makes use of the memory affect of metal in panels.
I know it looks like there is a lot of massaging of metal, but the pros that do this will tell you that a lot of the work is done for them by using heat and the memory affect of the metal. I've had a dent removed by PDR and it's magical to see happen.
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06-17-2018, 07:43 AM | #73 | |
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Vouching with a personal experience from a E30? Bless us all. Do you have something from more recent? The M2 is much heavier and has loads more power than the E30. Not to mention different alloys are used on the M2 than the E30 and different chassis design. The M2 is a much more complicated car. You vouch from 1 good experience on an old car and you think the result will be the same for all cars... I am sure the OP will manage to figure what to do. Your overly colourful input will just confuse people. Last edited by Karmic Man; 06-17-2018 at 08:21 AM.. |
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06-17-2018, 12:35 PM | #74 |
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Hi guys thanks for your responses - I guess i will not know how the car will feel until i get it back. My understanding based on speaking to the garage is that if the sub frame needed replacing they would replace it - they are not really working to a budget as they said they simply replace everything that is or may be damaged and repair things that can be repaired - if there was any doubt they would simply replace the part as the insurance company will be paying for it...
So far the dealership and bodyshop have been nothing but helpful and have managed to fill me with confidence in their skills so i am going to put my trust in them for the time being... That said it may well be that i get it back and it doesnt feel right. in which case i would take it back to the dealership and consider moving on/buying a new M2. I will update the thread when i get the car back on the road in hopefully 3 weeks time. |
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randyt224.50 M3 Adjuster7905.50 |
06-18-2018, 12:08 AM | #75 | |
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Every single metallic component has its fatigue life. There are several variables that are taken as inputs and entered into sophisticated models to predict fatigue life based on material properties, expected loads, object shape, length, width, height, environmental conditions etc. When the car travels on the road there are parts of the chassis that flex more than others based on the loads in the x, y, and z axis. This is all modeled mathematically and analyzed. Once the actual fatigue life is determined some components may get bigger and some smaller. This is done during system optimization. If the part needs additional strength that usually means additional weight as it becomes thicker (stronger). The folks responsible for the design and analysis are structural engineers. Therefore, if a component is damaged "beyond repair" it will be replaced. However, a single impact to a metallic component does not instantly mean that it will be weaker. On an old car it is very likely but on a new car the impact would need to be severe. The inspection procedure specified by the manufacturer will help determine the level of repair needed as specified in the repair procedures defined by structural engineers. For anybody interested in the details research stress analysis and fatigue life. Last edited by Mavus; 06-18-2018 at 12:14 AM.. |
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M3 Adjuster7905.50 Doctor///M1792.00 |
06-18-2018, 01:34 AM | #76 | |
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When the original shape of the metal is deformed and then get pressed back to its original shape, its crystalline structure has been altered and therefore it will lose its strength. An introductory session on frame damage for those who are interested (but don't click their ad stuff https://carbrain.com/Blog/what-is-frame-damage |
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06-18-2018, 01:45 AM | #77 | |
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06-18-2018, 10:30 AM | #78 | |
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Great info but damage of this sort, they are not going to straitened & Bondo-up that panel; but instead cut out the damage section of quarter panel and MIG-weld another new piece together.. So the argument of weaken metal is moot.. However, if the R&R quarter panel is not aligned properly, the tire will rub on panel every time you hit a bump.. Ask me how I know: |
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06-21-2018, 11:39 AM | #80 | |
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06-21-2018, 12:48 PM | #81 | |
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I plan on doing one in my own car somewhere more local soon, talking of which if you have any recommendations i would be most grateful!
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06-21-2018, 02:38 PM | #82 | ||
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Glad things got resolved and you shared your experience with us OP. Seriously not a situation we'd want to find ourselves in, and many HPDEs will help you better understand the limits of the car.
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06-23-2018, 04:32 PM | #83 |
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Please update us on the status of the repair. Photos and total cost too if you're ok sharing. Many thanks.
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06-23-2018, 11:25 PM | #85 |
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No such thing as Sport AND traction off. Turning the traction off is its very own mode. It's not intuitive, they could have just put all five modes on the one rocker button and it would be more easily understood. Perhaps they felt they needed a dedicated button for traction off mode though for safety reasons.
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06-24-2018, 12:58 PM | #86 | |
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I always drive it in sport but i usually do it before i set off - that morning i did it on the move and didn't look at what i was doing and i think i must have pressed the wrong button ... nothing would possess me to intentionally turn the DSC off, in the wet, in a new car im not familiar with. daft mistake to make.
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06-24-2018, 02:34 PM | #87 | |
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07-21-2018, 05:55 PM | #88 |
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final update for those interested!
Took a lot longer than expected to repair the car however it is now back and i picked it up the other night around 5 weeks on from the accident. It feels good as new and the body shop have done a fantastic job. I was worried about there being rattles/squeaks etc and it not 'feeling' right but i honestly can't tell the difference - it feels good as new. Cant beat the feeling of getting it back after 5 weeks without it
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