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      07-06-2014, 05:33 PM   #1
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Arrow know thy enemy well... Audi RS3...

Seeing how the M2 is still under a lot of mystery... Audi is rushing development of their RS3. Here it is seen testing on the 'Ring...

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      07-07-2014, 05:03 AM   #2
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You can see already that it will be a boring understeery car.
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      07-07-2014, 09:07 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advevo
You can see already that it will be a boring understeery car.
Isn't that standard with almost all Audi cars?
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      07-07-2014, 11:11 AM   #4
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I assume this won't be coming to the US?
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      07-07-2014, 11:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Seeing how the M2 is still under a lot of mystery... Audi is rushing development of their RS3. Here it is seen testing on the 'Ring...

Beautiful car. I am grateful for Audi to continue to push BMW. If they can just tune out some understeer, you have a great car.

I know the S3 Sedan is coming to USA and looks nice but only in automatic. The RS3 will definitely be a contender especially with the automatic crowd that just wants an automated 0-60 launch where Audi usually wins. When the old RS3 came out against the 1M, you could get a 1M stripper with clean dash and fixed suspension etc. So it was a no brainer...1M won out, but if they make the M2 all dynamic-soft-butt-idrive-active-soundish like the new cars, then there is less that will differentiate the two.

On a different note, I find it interesting that many dismiss Audi because of the understeers. Many of us that prefer manual transmissions because of they way they drive are constantly confronted by the automatic fans that cling rapaciously .1 or .2 second faster 0-60 time saying things like "you'll end up in the slow lane with a manual. We say, we would rather give up .2 seconds of automated launch speed for the "feel" and enjoyment of the manual. The Audi is the ultimate 0-60 all wheel drive automated launch car that usually will destroy BMWs of the same price category. So I wonder if the automatic fans, why aren't they rushing out to buy this little beast? It will probably be faster that M2 0-60? Could it be that you value the "feel" and fun of rear wheel drive over the cold efficiency of all wheel drive automated launch cars? Maybe those of us that like manuals are not that different from you because if we were, no one here touting the DCT 0-60 time would even buy an M2 when the RS3 will be the ultimate 0-60 car.
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      07-07-2014, 01:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advevo View Post
You can see already that it will be a boring understeery car.
Like the next 1 Series / 2 Series.
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      07-07-2014, 01:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Beautiful car. I am grateful for Audi to continue to push BMW. If they can just tune out some understeer, you have a great car.

I know the S3 Sedan is coming to USA and looks nice but only in automatic. The RS3 will definitely be a contender especially with the automatic crowd that just wants an automated 0-60 launch where Audi usually wins. When the old RS3 came out against the 1M, you could get a 1M stripper with clean dash and fixed suspension etc. So it was a no brainer...1M won out, but if they make the M2 all dynamic-soft-butt-idrive-active-soundish like the new cars, then there is less that will differentiate the two.

On a different note, I find it interesting that many dismiss Audi because of the understeers. Many of us that prefer manual transmissions because of they way they drive are constantly confronted by the automatic fans that cling rapaciously .1 or .2 second faster 0-60 time saying things like "you'll end up in the slow lane with a manual. We say, we would rather give up .2 seconds of automated launch speed for the "feel" and enjoyment of the manual. The Audi is the ultimate 0-60 all wheel drive automated launch car that usually will destroy BMWs of the same price category. So I wonder if the automatic fans, why aren't they rushing out to buy this little beast? It will probably be faster that M2 0-60? Could it be that you value the "feel" and fun of rear wheel drive over the cold efficiency of all wheel drive automated launch cars? Maybe those of us that like manuals are not that different from you because if we were, no one here touting the DCT 0-60 time would even buy an M2 when the RS3 will be the ultimate 0-60 car.
Maybe a valid point if the RS3 were true torsion 4wd but the fact remains, irrespective of the improvements Haldex may or may not have made with gen 5, this is still a front drive until slip occurs and you feel it all the time.

The x-drive is far superior in at least feel and enjoyment..........and less understeer.
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      07-07-2014, 01:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
... So I wonder if the automatic fans, why aren't they rushing out to buy this little beast? It will probably be faster that M2 0-60? Could it be that you value the "feel" and fun of rear wheel drive over the cold efficiency of all wheel drive automated launch cars? Maybe those of us that like manuals are not that different from you because if we were, no one here touting the DCT 0-60 time would even buy an M2 when the RS3 will be the ultimate 0-60 car.
I think you don't get their point?
They normally talk about (race)track performance!
And there a 0.3s advantage (0-60mph for the Audi) ... you give a shit about it
If you really have a racestart from full stop it doesn't matter because you have N laps to go .... or for normal track days you don't have a start from full stop because it will wear your car unnessarily ...
traffic light drag racing is for posers, idiots and kids

Last edited by manuelf; 07-07-2014 at 01:38 PM..
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      07-07-2014, 02:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Japper View Post
Maybe a valid point if the RS3 were true torsion 4wd but the fact remains, irrespective of the improvements Haldex may or may not have made with gen 5, this is still a front drive until slip occurs and you feel it all the time.

The x-drive is far superior in at least feel and enjoyment..........and less understeer.
If the Haldex in the RS3 is anything like the system in the new Golf R, it will preemptively send torque to the rear wheels under the right conditions (throttle input and velocity).

Don't get me wrong, it will still be balanced with a bias toward understeer, and it will still have typically numb Audi steering, but it will be blazingly fast. The fastest way around a track is to drive the car at the limit the greatest percentage of the time possible. For the vast majority of drivers (even pro drivers), it is easier to hang on the edge of the limit when a car is balanced toward understeer, because understeer correction is easy to execute, and the penalties aren't as severe. Understeer causes you to apex wide and scrub speed. Oversteer requires quick counter-steer correction and delicate throttle balance... and you still run wide. The difference is, oversteer can result in you facing the wrong direction on the track, while understeer cannot

Obviously I'm playing devils advocate. I've cast my lot (RWD with oversteer plz!), and I'll take fun over tenths any day of the week. I try to keep a sense of perspective though.
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      07-07-2014, 02:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Beautiful car. I am grateful for Audi to continue to push BMW. If they can just tune out some understeer, you have a great car.

I know the S3 Sedan is coming to USA and looks nice but only in automatic. The RS3 will definitely be a contender especially with the automatic crowd that just wants an automated 0-60 launch where Audi usually wins. When the old RS3 came out against the 1M, you could get a 1M stripper with clean dash and fixed suspension etc. So it was a no brainer...1M won out, but if they make the M2 all dynamic-soft-butt-idrive-active-soundish like the new cars, then there is less that will differentiate the two.

On a different note, I find it interesting that many dismiss Audi because of the understeers. Many of us that prefer manual transmissions because of they way they drive are constantly confronted by the automatic fans that cling rapaciously .1 or .2 second faster 0-60 time saying things like "you'll end up in the slow lane with a manual. We say, we would rather give up .2 seconds of automated launch speed for the "feel" and enjoyment of the manual. The Audi is the ultimate 0-60 all wheel drive automated launch car that usually will destroy BMWs of the same price category. So I wonder if the automatic fans, why aren't they rushing out to buy this little beast? It will probably be faster that M2 0-60? Could it be that you value the "feel" and fun of rear wheel drive over the cold efficiency of all wheel drive automated launch cars? Maybe those of us that like manuals are not that different from you because if we were, no one here touting the DCT 0-60 time would even buy an M2 when the RS3 will be the ultimate 0-60 car.
I have an alternative explanation: the people making that argument are a bunch of tools
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Last edited by bradleyland; 07-07-2014 at 03:14 PM..
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      07-07-2014, 05:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
If the Haldex in the RS3 is anything like the system in the new Golf R, it will preemptively send torque to the rear wheels under the right conditions (throttle input and velocity).

Don't get me wrong, it will still be balanced with a bias toward understeer, and it will still have typically numb Audi steering, but it will be blazingly fast. The fastest way around a track is to drive the car at the limit the greatest percentage of the time possible. For the vast majority of drivers (even pro drivers), it is easier to hang on the edge of the limit when a car is balanced toward understeer, because understeer correction is easy to execute, and the penalties aren't as severe. Understeer causes you to apex wide and scrub speed. Oversteer requires quick counter-steer correction and delicate throttle balance... and you still run wide. The difference is, oversteer can result in you facing the wrong direction on the track, while understeer cannot


Obviously I'm playing devils advocate. I've cast my lot (RWD with oversteer plz!), and I'll take fun over tenths any day of the week. I try to keep a sense of perspective though.
I know, and they claim it can send 100% to rear wheels too

I used to drive Audi's all the time in Scotland until i drove a BMW with snow tyres in winter and discovered it was far better and fun to boot

Audi styling used to be great, also VW but now they are all BLAND!
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      07-07-2014, 05:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Japper View Post
I know, and they claim it can send 100% to rear wheels too

I used to drive Audi's all the time in Scotland until i drove a BMW with snow tyres in winter and discovered it was far better and fun to boot

Audi styling used to be great, also VW but now they are all BLAND!
Not a huge fans of 3-doors but this looks like a Golf.
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      07-12-2014, 03:26 PM   #13
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I think the RS3 looks AND sounds good in this video. The M2 is my choice out of the box so to speak, but if this makes it to the USA, I will definitely consider it.
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      07-13-2014, 01:21 AM   #14
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Reports firming of the RS3 with 376 HP and a RS3 Plus version with 410 HP coupled with the phenomenal sound of the 5 cylinder engine will give this car huge street cred.

M2 is still my preference due primarily to looks, because I believe this next round of euro fighters - M2, CLA 45 Black, RS3, R400 and TT420 will all steer beautifully, so it could come down to badge preference and looks for many.
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      07-13-2014, 07:38 AM   #15
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228i. .1 second difference 0 to 60 , manual vs auto

From BMW website

Performance
Automatic Acceleration 0-60 mph. 5.4 sec
Manual Acceleration 0-60 mph. 5.5 sec
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      07-13-2014, 09:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tccox View Post
228i. .1 second difference 0 to 60 , manual vs auto

From BMW website

Performance
Automatic Acceleration 0-60 mph. 5.4 sec
Manual Acceleration 0-60 mph. 5.5 sec
And that's .1 seconds one can spend doing something else with his life (or .2 seconds for the m235i).

As for me, I'd always rather shift the gears myself!
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      07-13-2014, 11:28 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson
Reports firming of the RS3 with 376 HP and a RS3 Plus version with 410 HP coupled with the phenomenal sound of the 5 cylinder engine will give this car huge street cred.

M2 is still my preference due primarily to looks, because I believe this next round of euro fighters - M2, CLA 45 Black, RS3, R400 and TT420 will all steer beautifully, so it could come down to badge preference and looks for many.
Hopefully the M2 comes with 380HP and 2 years later they make the M2 competition package with 400HP, Carbon Brakes, a tune, lighter wheels and exhaust.
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      07-13-2014, 10:24 PM   #18
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Good grief some of these posts... I think those of us that are true enthusiasts recognize how certain cars fit certain people based on where they live and what they want their car to accomplish. Anyway I for one am excited to see the RS3, especially if it comes in hatch form. While RWD is good for the track, a rear biased AWD is best for the wet and snowy roads I drive 70% of the year. There is strong rumor that the RS3 will have adjustable rear torque split. And that 5 cylinder OH YEAH it sounds so good!

http://fourtitude.com/news/audi-rumo...ter-escalates/

I miss my E90 M and it was great on track, but I don't really miss RWD for my driving now. BTW, at the 0:31 and 0:56 marks of this vid, doesn't look like understeer to me. Just because the car isn't smoking a sideways burn doesn't mean it is understeering

Last edited by Transfer; 07-13-2014 at 10:33 PM..
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      07-14-2014, 12:42 AM   #19
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Nice car but as far as I know this is not coming to the US... M2 is my choice anyways when it hits US soil...Can't Wait. .
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      07-15-2014, 08:47 AM   #20
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There is another coming...
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The M850i is evidence that BMW have got their mojo back when it comes to dynamic sports cars...
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      07-15-2014, 10:40 PM   #21
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There is another coming...
It's called Mustang GT350...

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      07-15-2014, 11:13 PM   #22
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It's called Mustang GT350...

No. This one will be exclusively for Europe.
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