[Jimjamz]

All manual CS owners - avert your eyes or down flamethrowers now...

I know there's a bunch on here that will only swear by the manual but as I'll be DD in Sydney traffic and ensure my wife can drive the car with confidence we've gone for DCT.

It's my second DCT car after the F80 and very happy with it. For the record I 95% of the time drive in manual mode and not auto. Not using the clutch pedal in a sydney crawl home over the Harbour Bridge is a life saver.

That all said, I thought I'd share three initial impressions on the DCT in the CS.

1. Compared to my '15 F80 DCT the F87 CS DCT seems noticeably faster on shift times. I defaulted to shift speed 2 on both cars and it seems to me speed 2 on the CS equates to the fastest setting (3) on the F80. Though I'm still in break in, under constant hard acceleration the CS DCT literally doesn't seem to take a breath and the shifts are a dog's pant short of instant. Not sure if anyone else has a similar (or not) impression?

2. The DCT shifter in brushed aluminium is a peach. The tear drop shape has a real drama to it surrounded by the black alcantara and merino leather. I was going to replace it with the MPE carbon shifter but like it so much I'm going to keep the metal original now.

3. I have driven a couple of longer highway trips in auto mode and the shifts are smoother and much better timed than I recall on the F80. Not sure if other owners have a similar view on it? For the record I was hovering around 1700rpm in 7th at 100kmh (61mph) on the motorway to sydney this morning.

[CarJunkie]

This is my first DCT. Are used to daily drive my 1M, which is now more of a track car. I am keeping it, which is part of the reason why I was willing to go for the DCT on my CS.

I have been daily driving an F87 X5 for almost 3 years. What is funny is that the driver interface on the CS is very similar to the X5 because they are both F series cars. All of the NAV and infotainment settings are the same. Because the driving dynamics of the CS are so similar to my 1M, I keep getting confused and worrying about stalling when I approach a stop and can't find the clutch pedal, LOL.

I have experimented with using manual sequential mode, but find that I have a very hard time not lifting my right foot briefly when I activate a gearshift. I'm sure I will eventually get used to that. In terms of the automatic drive mode, I have found a D2 tends to shift exactly the way I would so that is my default.

I have also found the speed 2 setting to be perfect on manual shift, and can't really appreciate a difference between speed 2 and speed 3. I'm thinking there may be more of a difference at full load or high rpm, but I haven't gone there yet.

[Gunnerforlife]

I think the DCT on the CS is really underrated. I get why everyone likes the manual and I actually have a manual car, but there is still a different type of enjoyment using the paddles on a good and aggressive Dual-clutch transmission.

I use the manual mode 100% of the time and the S3 model. The shifts are really quick and the car is not jerky in lower gears. However, I've noticed a couple of times when I downshift, it gives me the gear, but there is a delay in applying my throttle input. Not sure if it has something to do with the break-in.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by Gunnerforlife

I think the DCT on the CS is really underrated. I get why everyone likes the manual and I actually have a manual car, but there is still a different type of enjoyment using the paddles on a good and aggressive Dual-clutch transmission.

I use the manual mode 100% of the time and the S3 model. The shifts are really quick and the car is not jerky in lower gears. However, I've noticed a couple of times when I downshift, it gives me the gear, but there is a delay in applying my throttle input. Not sure if it has something to do with the break-in.

I found these interesting DCT videos, the first from M. I wasn't aware of the low speed assistant until I watched the first - I don't recall seeing it in the manual.

BMW M driver talks to DCT
-

Engineering explained
-

One for engineers
-

The point about understanding the next shift the DCT is predicting for preloading (up or down) is useful to maximising your shift outcome.

[Piets94]

I've not got my CS yet, but have a DCT M2C as a daily. That being my first DCT for your exact reasons Jimjamz - wifely access and daily driving (coming from a 1M daily since 2012).

Very happy overall with the box, I daily it in D1 (D2 seems to want to hold the revs higher than I'd like whilst commuting), and manual mode in S2. S3 on the track is brutally fast. D3 for full noise from a standstill.

I dislike the time it takes to engage reverse, then gear 1 (say for example when doing a 3 point turn), but that would be my only main gripe. I've also twice accidentally clicked the left paddle mid-corner on track resulting in an unwanted downshift (have never mis-shifted a manual on track), but that's driver error.

Needless to say my CS will be a DCT, and there's no plans on wifely access this time (cracked carbon lip and syphilis rim fears are real ).

[Wah]

Originally Posted by Piets94

I've not got my CS yet, but have a DCT M2C as a daily. That being my first DCT for your exact reasons Jimjamz - wifely access and daily driving (coming from a 1M daily since 2012).

Very happy overall with the box, I daily it in D1 (D2 seems to want to hold the revs higher than I'd like whilst commuting), and manual mode in S2. S3 on the track is brutally fast. D3 for full noise from a standstill.

I dislike the time it takes to engage reverse, then gear 1 (say for example when doing a 3 point turn), but that would be my only main gripe. I've also twice accidentally clicked the left paddle mid-corner on track resulting in an unwanted downshift (have never mis-shifted a manual on track), but that's driver error.

Needless to say my CS will be a DCT, and there's no plans on wifely access this time (cracked carbon lip and syphilis rim fears are real ).

Ummm.. syphilis rim?

[Piets94]

Originally Posted by Wah

Ummm.. syphilis rim?

Don't forget the cracked lips!

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Gunnerforlife

I use the manual mode 100% of the time and the S3 model. The shifts are really quick and the car is not jerky in lower gears. However, I've noticed a couple of times when I downshift, it gives me the gear, but there is a delay in applying my throttle input. Not sure if it has something to do with the break-in.

There is actually a learning curve on DCT.

The car takes its cues for the next scheduled gear based on driver input. Slowing for a corner, or even easing off the throttle will cue for a downshift, accelerating will cue for an up shift. Very well thought out. Even down to using the shift lever, brake push forward, accelerate pull back.

[Davil]

At this point in time I can't really pick any difference between M2C and CS as far as the DCT goes. To be honest I loved the DCT in the M2C I couldn't really see how they could improve on it.

I have always stayed in S2 most driving. Auto is just for car parks and bumper to bumper traffic. For me it is impossible to drive in auto mode. Even if I make a concerted effort I always manually change a gear and then I'm back into manual mode.

S3 is just for when you are really hammering it. There is a noticeable difference in shift speed. Bang bang bang. It's intoxicating. Using S3 at other times doesn't really deliver any benefits and has some occasional clunky shifts.

[kyrocks]

The Manual vs DCT debate is beat to death. Pros and cons to both.
Buy and drive what you like!
I love both.

[f80_MG]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

I found these interesting DCT videos, the first from M. I wasn't aware of the low speed assistant until I watched the first - I don't recall seeing it in the manual.

BMW M driver talks to DCT

Engineering explained

One for engineers

The point about understanding the next shift the DCT is predicting for preloading (up or down) is useful to maximising your shift outcome.

Couple of "tricks" that may not be super intuitive, especially for anyone moving from an MT or a ZF 8spd

1. Can start in 2nd gear from standstill (just hit the right paddle when stopped and it will go from 1 to 2)

2. When manually shifting, to pick the best gear, use the kickdown button and left paddle simultaneously. (I think in ZF's this is both right and left paddles simultaneously)

3. Within a single DCT drivelogic mode (D2 or D3 etc.) the DCT further adapts based on style of driving. So for eg, in D2 the shifts will be faster than D1 and RPMs held higher but also in D2 if cruising around, it won't hold RPMs as high as if you were going all-out in D2. Thankfully doesn't have any of that adaptive memory of the ZFs

[Piets94]

Originally Posted by kyrocks

The Manual vs DCT debate is beat to death. Pros and cons to both.
Buy and drive what you like!
I love both.

Didn't see any debate going on in this thread
Seemed to me to be a thread pertaining to the nuances of the wonderful DCT.

Your comment is on point, however.

[ShaknBak]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

All manual CS owners - avert your eyes or down flamethrowers now...

I know there's a bunch on here that will only swear by the manual but as I'll be DD in Sydney traffic and ensure my wife can drive the car with confidence we've gone for DCT.

It's my second DCT car after the F80 and very happy with it. For the record I 95% of the time drive in manual mode and not auto. Not using the clutch pedal in a sydney crawl home over the Harbour Bridge is a life saver.

That all said, I thought I'd share three initial impressions on the DCT in the CS.

1. Compared to my '15 F80 DCT the F87 CS DCT seems noticeably faster on shift times. I defaulted to shift speed 2 on both cars and it seems to me speed 2 on the CS equates to the fastest setting (3) on the F80. Though I'm still in break in, under constant hard acceleration the CS DCT literally doesn't seem to take a breath and the shifts are a dog's pant short of instant. Not sure if anyone else has a similar (or not) impression?

2. The DCT shifter in brushed aluminium is a peach. The tear drop shape has a real drama to it surrounded by the black alcantara and merino leather. I was going to replace it with the MPE carbon shifter but like it so much I'm going to keep the metal original now.

3. I have driven a couple of longer highway trips in auto mode and the shifts are smoother and much better timed than I recall on the F80. Not sure if other owners have a similar view on it? For the record I was hovering around 1700rpm in 7th at 100kmh (61mph) on the motorway to sydney this morning.

I also came to the M2 CS DCT from a F80 M3 DCT.

If traffic doesn't return post pandemic, I may regret that decision.

Like you said, during the break in, it's hard to tell if the shifting speed is really any different.

In D1/2/3 modes, the logic is definitely different from in the F80. When accelerating, the shift points let the engine rev out more. When decelerating, it's much more eager to prompt a downshift.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by kyrocks

The Manual vs DCT debate is beat to death. Pros and cons to both.
Buy and drive what you like!
I love both.

Not debating manual vs DCT here.

What I am interested in is how other CS DCT drivers compare the DCT in the CS to other M DCTs. Having hated the SMG I in the E60 M5 (gave back the E60 M5 to the dealer after 6 neck breaking weeks), and been a fan of the F80 DCT - I'm now wondering if the DCT in the F87 CS is the best dual clutch transmission and tune that M has made?

If so, what a way to go out. Are there any other M cars out there with the DCT left right now? I think they've all moved to the ZF8 auto box.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by Davil

There is actually a learning curve on DCT.

The car takes its cues for the next scheduled gear based on driver input. Slowing for a corner, or even easing off the throttle will cue for a downshift, accelerating will cue for an up shift. Very well thought out. Even down to using the shift lever, brake push forward, accelerate pull back.

Sorry to jump in on the CS thread, but I'm a huge fan of the DCT in my comp. This makes a lot of sense. Most times I'll shift and look at the gear indicator on the odo, and its already in the gear I desire. Almost too fast to change gears...freaky that its literally reading you mind, but so cool.

Originally Posted by Davil

At this point in time I can't really pick any difference between M2C and CS as far as the DCT goes. To be honest I loved the DCT in the M2C I couldn't really see how they could improve on it.

I have always stayed in S2 most driving. Auto is just for car parks and bumper to bumper traffic. For me it is impossible to drive in auto mode. Even if I make a concerted effort I always manually change a gear and then I'm back into manual mode.

S3 is just for when you are really hammering it. There is a noticeable difference in shift speed. Bang bang bang. It's intoxicating. Using S3 at other times doesn't really deliver any benefits and has some occasional clunky shifts.

I've always driven in S3, shifting 100% of the time. Based on user input here I'll try S2 if it wont make much of a difference in daily driving.

[Piets94]

Having driven in my DCT CS for a couple of days now, I can say that there is definitely a difference to the DCT in the M2C. It feels more mechanical and almost MT-like in it's clutch engagement and release, less slipping when taking off from standstill. I'm really liking this change.

[mchart]

The manual on this car is not hard to use. The tuning makes it pretty much impossible to stall the vehicle unless you're a complete idiot. You have rev-match for downshifts which is a good amount of the hardest part of learning to drive stick.

Honestly, I feel like the manual in this car is better for daily driving than DCT. I personally can't stand the feeling of DCT for around town driving. It's not smooth like an automatic, and I can't drive it smooth like my manual.

Sure, if you don't know how to drive stick the DCT is there, but this has to be the easiest vehicle to learn stick on given all the nannies.

[CarJunkie]

^^ I disagree. The DCT is smooth and direct. No human could make shifts as well, and certainly not as quickly. The very minimal increase in smoothness with a slushbox is due to the slush, which is also what ruins everything else about it.

[omasou]

I had DCT in the M2 and M2C. I have the M2 engine mated to the ZF8 auto in my X4M40i.

This is my first DCT and I am continually amazed at how smooth and fast it is. It's more of a manual than an automatic. You mention upshifts but the downshifts are just as amazing. Taking turns and the shift up or down never unsettles the car.

Not sure if it's the programming or what but the X4 shifts are fine up but fast downshifts are horrible. If my experience is any indication of the future M + ZF8 experience, I think BMW will be selling a LOT of manuals. Shame they couldn't make the DCT work in future models.

[MadBimmeRad]

I liken it to this, 6MT is like Cleopatra and DCT like Beyonce; both wonderful in their own way but Cleopatra is majestic all to her own

[Piets94]

Originally Posted by mchart

The manual on this car is not hard to use. The tuning makes it pretty much impossible to stall the vehicle unless you're a complete idiot. You have rev-match for downshifts which is a good amount of the hardest part of learning to drive stick.

Honestly, I feel like the manual in this car is better for daily driving than DCT. I personally can't stand the feeling of DCT for around town driving. It's not smooth like an automatic, and I can't drive it smooth like my manual.

Sure, if you don't know how to drive stick the DCT is there, but this has to be the easiest vehicle to learn stick on given all the nannies.

This thread is about appreciating the DCT and all its goodness from its application in the CS - leave the DCT bashing to the myriad of comparison threads where MT tragics reside

I'm appreciating more and more the differences in tuning of the DCT in the CS vs the M2C.

[msmatt]

I’m a diehard manual guy, both my kid’s first cars have 3 pedals, but I’ve learned through the years that you need to pair the motor and trans to get the best experience.

The new DFI turbo motors are so strong, but usually are better paired with paddles. The DCT M2 CS is way better than my F80 M3 with a manual. Go try a 992 PDK, amazing powertrain and the Alfa Guilia Quad is off the chart with a ZF slushbox.

If the Motor is NA, (GT3, Miata, older 80’s to 00’s stuff) manuals pair much better. Power band is more controllable and enjoyable.

If the CS is your only car or only option for a manual and you want 3 pedals go for it. But, the car is really enjoyable with the DCT and the dual clutch transmissions are on their way out and have a unique character of their own so neither option is bad, just different.