[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by Reedomn

IMHO, I highly doubt this will be "an absolute future classic". The reason the 1M is so desired is because the msrp at 54k was a bargain and I think the Pyrat Rum story behind it (engineers working at nights and weekends) just doesn't happen at large auto manufacturers. A nice 1M can be bought in the 50's. With that said I love the M2 as I had an OG 2016. I was offered a CS but passed. The M4 GTS was a flop and the M3CS can be bought cheap now. Again it's just my opinion that BMW uses the "CS" marking to jack up the price with some alcantara and carbon fiber. Huge money maker for them per unit. The car is great but the price is ridiculous. I just picked up a barely used GT3 for similiar money.

What makes for a future classic is hugely enthusiastic fans and a beautifully engineered and designed car. Every classic has a narrative. The 1M narrative as a parts bin skunkworks is compelling. The F87 CS narrative is that it was purpose engineered to be the best of the best with nothing given to the M3 and at a time when BMW was losing its design mojo (BMW's first time EVO COTY just as fans, motor press and public were giving up on BMW design). No doubt there will be another Karim Habib and BMW's design flag will wave again. The F87 CS will be the car that goes down as the one that held the torch during the night.

[BMW DIY Guy]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

What makes for a future classic is hugely enthusiastic fans and a beautifully engineered and designed car. Every future classic has a narrative. The 1M narrative as a parts bin skunkworks is compelling. The F87 CS narrative is that it was purpose engineered to be the best of the best with nothing given to the M3 and at a time when BMW was losing its design mojo (BMW's first time EVO COTY just as fans, motor press and public were giving up on BMW design). No doubt there will be another Karim Habib and BMW's design flag will wave again. The F87 CS will be the car that goes down as the one that held the torch through the night.

Very very well said!

Bringing up the 1M, CSL or other rare models wasn't to compare them to each other, but as a new entry to the ranks of the special cars.

There are a few 1Ms in my area and my head is on a swivel every time I see one go by.

The CS has something.. special.. its like 1 + 1 + 1 = 4 when driving it. Its easy to point out the differences, slightly different tune, or suspension, or other slight tweaks. Its all of that added up that makes it special.

Its still a car.. will have its leaks, foibles and issues.. but there is some design magic in it for sure.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Reedomn

IMHO, I highly doubt this will be "an absolute future classic". The reason the 1M is so desired is because the msrp at 54k was a bargain and I think the Pyrat Rum story behind it (engineers working at nights and weekends) just doesn't happen at large auto manufacturers. A nice 1M can be bought in the 50's. With that said I love the M2 as I had an OG 2016. I was offered a CS but passed. The M4 GTS was a flop and the M3CS can be bought cheap now. Again it's just my opinion that BMW uses the "CS" marking to jack up the price with some alcantara and carbon fiber. Huge money maker for them per unit. The car is great but the price is ridiculous. I just picked up a barely used GT3 for similiar money.

Quick math:

2200 X $25k = $55m (I think)

[Bimmed Out]

Originally Posted by Reedomn

The car is great but the price is ridiculous. I just picked up a barely used GT3 for similiar money.

Sure, because you bought someone else's 991.1 GT3. To each his own, but the 991.1 GT3 was the only iteration that was an easy pass for me...and that was before the engines started catching fire. Based on how the 991.1 GT3 has done, it appears I'm not the only one who took a pass. It has already dropped to to 997 values and the trajectory continues to point down. Lots of M2 CS buyers could have easily chosen a used 991.1 GT3 ... and yet here we all are. With this said, I hope you enjoy your new (to you) ride!

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Quick math:

2200 X $25k = $55m (I think)

I went through this a bit on a different thread, the manufacturer itself probably only sees a percentage of that. Dealer and distribution take a bunch.

Then you have to figure in development costs etc. Safety certification etc cost quite a bit. Shipping it with the front splitter and diffuser on it instead of as PIA makes a difference and they have to recertify. There were hold ups on US cars for EPA paperwork as well, all things that cost money to do too. Just the tooling alone for the carbon roof and tunnel which is unique and likely in millions of dollars. Add in marketing budget etc...

I'd assume it was net positive, but it isn't unheard of at all for them to be negative. I'd wager more like 5-10M. Projects/cars like this are much more about the marketing ROI than the actual sales value.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

What makes for a future classic is hugely enthusiastic fans and a beautifully engineered and designed car. Every classic has a narrative. The 1M narrative as a parts bin skunkworks is compelling. The F87 CS narrative is that it was purpose engineered to be the best of the best with nothing given to the M3 and at a time when BMW was losing its design mojo (BMW's first time EVO COTY just as fans, motor press and public were giving up on BMW design). No doubt there will be another Karim Habib and BMW's design flag will wave again. The F87 CS will be the car that goes down as the one that held the torch during the night.

Could not agree with you more, fans; bang on!

Every legendary story has its alluring core premise captivating the fans for generations on.

Ford GT in the late 60s was by all means not a great piece of machinery in many ways but Shelby and Miles made it an epic story which will outlive time itself.

1M is one of those freaks of ingenuity; for sure, no debates there. It's a great story sure, but it isn't the only car with a story.

I've lived in an era where we came from having to pay extra for rear seatbelts, to witnessing some of the most amazing cars made over the last four decades or more. But I have not yet seen the level of enthusiasm for a car as much as I have the M2CS, enthusiasm that's driven not by the story attached to the car, but the richness and epic character that M2CS screams from miles away.


different horses, different courses, same pleasure

[kyrocks]

Originally Posted by Bimmed Out

Sure, because you bought someone else's 991.1 GT3. To each his own, but the 991.1 GT3 was the only iteration that was an easy pass for me...and that was before the engines started catching fire. Based on how the 991.1 GT3 has done, it appears I'm not the only one who took a pass. It has already dropped to to 997 values and the trajectory continues to point down. Lots of M2 CS buyers could have easily chosen a used 991.1 GT3 ... and yet here we all are. With this said, I hope you enjoy your new (to you) ride!

Can you show me a 991 GT3 for $85k?

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

I went through this a bit on a different thread, the manufacturer itself probably only sees a percentage of that. Dealer and distribution take a bunch.

Then you have to figure in development costs etc. Safety certification etc cost quite a bit. Shipping it with the front splitter and diffuser on it instead of as PIA makes a difference and they have to recertify. There were hold ups on US cars for EPA paperwork as well, all things that cost money to do too. Just the tooling alone for the carbon roof and tunnel which is unique and likely in millions of dollars. Add in marketing budget etc...

I'd assume it was net positive, but it isn't unheard of at all for them to be negative. I'd wager more like 5-10M. Projects/cars like this are much more about the marketing ROI than the actual sales value.

You're totally right.

Look at LFA; they lost packet loads of money for every single car they sold. Lexus loved the car and prided themselves in their creation.

I suspect the motivation behind this iteration of the F87 Empire, would not have been just dollars.

It's easy to replay every commentary by Masters of the BMW Universe many of whom are on record saying how M2CS is their favourite car of recent era. I think there's more to this car than meets the eye just yet.

The truth is out there

[lnwlf7]

Originally Posted by Alpine*

Lol no, the prices here made buying one GTS ridiculously expensive.

we have 3 GTS's listed in switzerland mint condition for 100k US dolars.
(i think US imports but however)

I think taxes kill the deals in Oceania right?

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

It's easy to replay every commentary by Masters of the BMW Universe many of whom are on record saying how M2CS is their favourite car of recent era. I think there's more to this car than meets the eye just yet.

The truth is out there

One interesting thing to note is that in past eras, “motoring press” referred to magazines, most of which are not accessible to the everyday person. A bigger and bigger percentage of that industry now resides on YouTube, a platform that I’d assume will continue to be available and archived over the next 25 years or so. I can’t just check out old reviews of an E46. I know it was generally well received, but nothing specific. However I bet that 15+ years from now, I’ll still be able to watch old M2 reviews on the internet for free.

Generally speaking, I think the M2 was already an old school car when it came out. Assuming it really is one of the last cars of its type, nostalgia should be pretty high for the model in general. I have a hard time believing the ultra rare, high performance edition of a very well received machine that was already tugging at everyone’s nostalgia strings will do anything but really well in the collector market.

It’s also important to remember that the M2 comp and by extension CS have their own cool origin story involving European emission laws and the N55/S55 engines. BMW clearly didn’t want the car to eclipse the M4 but were then essentially forced by law to do the thing they didn’t want to do and gave the car the same drivetrain as the M4. Us M2 comp guys still got a detuned engine, but you CS guys didn’t. Very unique situation/origin story.

[mbanck]

Originally Posted by Moflow

One interesting thing to note is that in past eras, “motoring press” referred to magazines, most of which are not accessible to the everyday person. A bigger and bigger percentage of that industry now resides on YouTube, a platform that I’d assume will continue to be available and archived over the next 25 years or so.

That's a good one, are you familiar with https://killedbygoogle.com/?

As long as youtube generated revenue it's safe of course, but as soon as it doesn't anymore...

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by lnwlf7

we have 3 GTS's listed in switzerland mint condition for 100k US dolars.
(i think US imports but however)

I think taxes kill the deals in Oceania right?

In Australia you pay taxes for luxury cars advice other taxes

• Import Duty - varies but around 5%
  GST - Goods & Services Tax - 10%
  LCT - Luxury Car Tax - 33% (after the above two races are levied)
  SD - Stamp duty - State tax - varied from state to state. it starts at 4% and goes up to (I think) 10% depending on the price of the car
  Registration and CTP insurance - Based on engine size - 6-cyl usually around $1000

The enclosed image should give you an idea

The M2CS base model in US starts around $83k - here it starts at $140k (exchange rate: USD$0.77 = AUD$1).

By the time it's registered and ready to drive off with, it's likely to have cost close to $155k which would be around USD$120

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by mbanck

That's a good one, are you familiar with https://killedbygoogle.com/?

As long as youtube generated revenue it's safe of course, but as soon as it doesn't anymore...

Hahah fair enough. I’d bet on it being around for at least another 15-20 years, and I’d expect videos to still be archived beyond that, but who’s to say how accessible they’ll be (or even if I’m right.)

Only time will tell of course.

[BMW DIY Guy]

I heard BMW Seattle was down to their last CS a week ago, (could be gone already) with no more available.

If you are thinking about getting one, time is running out.

[VisualEcho]

Just the worst sound ever for such a wonderful car. Biggest ball-drop aside from not producing the E46 CSL in 6MT.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

Just the worst sound ever for such a wonderful car. Biggest ball-drop aside from not producing the E46 CSL in 6MT.

Car sounds amazing.

[mfarrzhp]

Originally Posted by Davil

Car sounds amazing.

I think it sounds good, albeit a bit too quiet. I'm glad it's not raspy like my E46 M3 was and even my F80 Comp when it's cold. The rasp in the F80 seems to go away once it warms up.

The CS definitely sounds better being pushed on the road than just revving it in the parking lot. I've watched at least a dozen YouTube reviews and the exhaust seems to be the most common letdown about the CS. However most say it's nowhere near a dealbreaker and the ones that do, agree that an easy after market exhaust will put that worry to bed.

I don't think I'll upgrade my exhaust, at least not for a few years.

[BMW DIY Guy]

Yeah yeah yeah.. I have heard (restrospectively) all the criticism of the 1M's (as unplanned bolted together and not that great) but I still want one.

Same thing here.. I wish I could pick up this CS as I know I am going to regret not owning one.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by BMW DIY Guy

Yeah yeah yeah.. I have heard (restrospectively) all the criticism of the 1M's (as unplanned bolted together and not that great) but I still want one.

Same thing here.. I wish I could pick up this CS as I know I am going to regret not owning one.

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” Albert Einstein

[Bokke]

one of my biggest "car" mistakes was not buying a used 1M I stumbled accross at a VW dealers because it was priced at $60k dollars - nuts to pay over msrp for a used car. Duh!!

on the other hand, my "best" decision was dumping my M4GTS with 57 miles for $140,000 and making money!

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Bokke

one of my biggest "car" mistakes was not buying a used 1M I stumbled accross at a VW dealers because it was priced at $60k dollars - nuts to pay over msrp for a used car. Duh!!

on the other hand, my "best" decision was dumping my M4GTS with 57 miles for $140,000 and making money!

You probably are the only soul on the planet who made money on the M4GTS; I bow to you

[mfarrzhp]

Originally Posted by Bokke

one of my biggest "car" mistakes was not buying a used 1M I stumbled accross at a VW dealers because it was priced at $60k dollars - nuts to pay over msrp for a used car. Duh!!

on the other hand, my "best" decision was dumping my M4GTS with 57 miles for $140,000 and making money!

Back in 2014-2015, I found a used 1M with 34K miles for about $48K. I offered $46K, and walked away when they said no. It still pains me to this day, so I didn't even ask for a lower price on the CS.

Nice move on the GTS!