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      01-25-2021, 06:47 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by ScullyD View Post
I make take heat for this, but lets not criticize M2 CS owners when this is what a GT4 owner looks like right:
LOL . . .Oops again
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      01-25-2021, 06:50 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by CarJunkie View Post
LOL . . .Oops again
As someone who meticulously breaks in my cars, this makes me cringe.
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      01-25-2021, 07:53 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by ptgltw View Post
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Originally Posted by AUSf22 View Post
Damn he may be the only CS owner to use Eibach springs ...

I wonder what the reasoning is for the springs ...
I have Eibach lowering springs. Feel free to visit Md and have a ride in my car.

Some of my race cars have $10,000 suspensions. I don't need to go there with this car. Also "only installing Eibach springs on the M2CS has not only improved looks but also handling while at the same time lowering my lap times.

Also some of the comments are hilarious while they contradicting themselves.

Saying BMW research and development is best then saying install a set of aftermarket coilovers for a proper lowering.

Does BMW offer lowering springs? If so who makes them? Surely not BMW.
Lowering springs mean that your shocks are always sitting in compressed position similar to going over a bump. Aftermarket guys try to get around this with progressive rates but the shocks are not working in the position that they were designed. This is even more of an issue with adaptive dampers. This greatly reduces compression travel and you are going to end up hitting the bump stops under certain circumstances. The constant bottoming out will also reduce the life of your shocks. The progressive rate versus stock linear rate they they use also means that the springs are not tuned to the shocks. You may think you are getting better performance on a billiard smooth track, but in reality you are working in a zone where there is basically no suspension. The shocks are carefully tuned to the spring rates and the travel. Start driving fast on bumpier road and you'll realise how bad it is. Then you'll eventually put the stock springs back on wonder what on earth you were thinking.

I mentioned coilovers as these have matched shocks and springs and allow you to adjust ride height via a perch, which will retain good suspension travel. There are many different types and all have compromises. If you go for the fastest lap setup your car will be a pig on the road.

The CS is a lovely compromise out of the box. You can set the car up for better track times with coilovers and a corner weighted track alignment but then your car won't be the great all rounder that it is.

Finally. It's personal preference but I really like the standard ride height.
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      01-25-2021, 08:35 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by TargaM2 View Post
Wow what a smug little bunch M2CS owners come off as, the chest beating going on is a bit ott folks.
Don't get me wrong I like the CS (wish they'd done a hardcore GTS version instead though) & glad to hear the positive reviews, also more importantly it's nice to see BMW still producing a decent car considering the rest of the range is going to shit & the brand is imploding in front of our eyes, but please let's not become an immature Honda fanboys type of community. Again congrats to all those who snapped one up.
For some context. I suspect a lot of CS owners copped about 6 months of crap for ordering these cars until they arrived and paper comparisons were replaced by time behind the wheel. The sense of affirmation occurring over the last few months will smooth out soon enough.
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      01-25-2021, 09:15 PM   #49
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I've built 6 BMW race cars in my time, and while I'm certainly not a suspension engineer, I'll throw in my two cents.

Lowering a car past a certain point is absolutely detrimental to handling. A car's control arms and suspension geometry are designed to work at certain angles. When you lower (or raise like on a Safari car) the suspension, you are altering that geometry. I've been racing a Spec E46 for 4 years (have built two of them), and as in all spec classes, we have to use specific parts. So all 100+ cars in the class have identical suspensions. The few things we can adjust are alignment, shock clicks (only single adjustable), and ride height. And as a group, we have tested, and too low of a ride height absolutely has negative effects on handling.

Also, if you're lowering your car more than an inch, you need to think about your swaybar end links. If you don't replace them with the adjustable type, and dial out all of the bind, then you're screwing up the suspension even more.

Suspension is a system, and each change affects many variables. I don't know anything about the BMW adaptive system, but I can't imagine it would be happy if you introduced shorter, stiffer springs, along with swaybar bind. With all that being said, lowered cars do look badass!
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      01-26-2021, 12:39 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
His car came with Cup2 tires and he removed those for PS4S tires for safety reasons (winter season).

See 14:07-14:26 and 18:16-18:42.
Probably the better solution over the PSS.
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      01-26-2021, 08:22 AM   #51
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      01-26-2021, 01:47 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
Lowering springs mean that your shocks are always sitting in compressed position similar to going over a bump. Aftermarket guys try to get around this with progressive rates but the shocks are not working in the position that they were designed. This is even more of an issue with adaptive dampers. This greatly reduces compression travel and you are going to end up hitting the bump stops under certain circumstances. The constant bottoming out will also reduce the life of your shocks. The progressive rate versus stock linear rate they they use also means that the springs are not tuned to the shocks. You may think you are getting better performance on a billiard smooth track, but in reality you are working in a zone where there is basically no suspension. The shocks are carefully tuned to the spring rates and the travel. Start driving fast on bumpier road and you'll realise how bad it is. Then you'll eventually put the stock springs back on wonder what on earth you were thinking.

I mentioned coilovers as these have matched shocks and springs and allow you to adjust ride height via a perch, which will retain good suspension travel. There are many different types and all have compromises. If you go for the fastest lap setup your car will be a pig on the road.

The CS is a lovely compromise out of the box. You can set the car up for better track times with coilovers and a corner weighted track alignment but then your car won't be the great all rounder that it is.

Finally. It's personal preference but I really like the standard ride height.
All good discussions. If I can take a break from my "too much fun" E30 M3 swapped track car, I hope to put the lowering springs to the test at VIR later in the year.
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      01-27-2021, 11:22 AM   #53
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I couldnt hear the car at all in the vid, that opf really makes it like ev quiet
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      01-27-2021, 11:57 AM   #54
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God, $300 Eibach springs on a 85k car, with unmatched fine-tuned electronic dampers, which is the distinguishing feature of the CS, over the Competition..

It must be a strange, contradictory sensation to have more money than brains...
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      01-27-2021, 12:55 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
God, $300 Eibach springs on a 85k car, with unmatched fine-tuned electronic dampers, which is the distinguishing feature of the CS, over the Competition..

It must be a strange, contradictory sensation to have more money than brains...
Finely tuned, lol. Did they use the same suspension engineer as they did on the M4 GTS? Race car for the street I will say the suspension is much better than the M2C. I don't think they used a chassis engineer at all for that model.

I hope the finely tuned shocks don't explode from all the pressure. I'll check for leaks when I return.

I may not even choose to wash it upon my return.

I would type more but I gotta go drive my Eibach lowered suspension M2CS.
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      01-27-2021, 12:56 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptgltw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
God, $300 Eibach springs on a 85k car, with unmatched fine-tuned electronic dampers, which is the distinguishing feature of the CS, over the Competition..

It must be a strange, contradictory sensation to have more money than brains...
Finely tuned, lol. Did they use the same suspension engineer as they did on the M4 GTS? Race car for the street I will say the suspension is much better than the M2C. I don't think they used a chassis engineer at all for that model.

I would type more but I gotta go drive my Eibach lowered suspension M2CS.

I hope the finely tuned shocks don't explode from all the pressure. I'll check for leaks when I return.

I may not even choose to wash it upon my return.
I'm not even going to bother..

You win bro, enjoy your eBay springs and new car..
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      01-27-2021, 01:15 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I'm not even going to bother..

You win bro, enjoy your eBay springs and new car..
Eibach Springs. Made in Germany. Enjoy whatever your driving today
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      01-27-2021, 01:26 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptgltw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I'm not even going to bother..

You win bro, enjoy your eBay springs and new car..
Eibach Springs. Made in Germany. Enjoy whatever your driving today
They are not but that's the least of your problems, when mismatching spring and dampers that are not design to work together, especially the electrical variant, that operates in tandem with the DSC, braking and overall vehicle dynamics but I'm not even trying to rain on your parade, you just keep on trucking
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      01-27-2021, 02:00 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
They are not but that's the least of your problems, when mismatching spring and dampers that are not design to work together, especially the electrical variant, that operates in tandem with the DSC, braking and overall vehicle dynamics but I'm not even trying to rain on your parade, you just keep on trucking
When you reach the level of Championship winning IMSA race car engineer, I might give your advice some thought.

But please respect others opinions especially his. I think he has earned it.
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      01-27-2021, 02:11 PM   #60
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Poochie You crack me up man, I do love ya. But the argument is not that simple.

I called Eibach and spoke with them about their springs for the F80/F82 and F87. I was told that these spring are made in Germany where they are developed and tested to work with the factory dampers (adaptive or static). I was told that some springs are manufactured here, but ones that have already had the development done at Germany HQ are carried over to US market (albeit sometimes with a changed part number). I do understand the point of the "these weren't engineered for the car" argument, but to imply that they are equivalent to some knock off eBay springs is simply not accurate.

Furthermore, the fact that BMW produces (via KW) a lowering option for their F80/F82 is further evidence that it can't be wholly detrimental to the handling. For example, why would the BMW kit have a limit on how much it can be lowered versus the KW kit if they weren't managing that parameter to ensure it's up to their standard and would not be doing harm to the car?

For what it's worth:

Eibach Springs:

F82 M4 Coupe E10-20-037-01-22
Front: Linear 182 lb/in
Rear: Progressive 360-628 lb/in

F87 M2 Coupe E10-20-035-01-22
Front: Linear 200 lb/in
Rear: Progressive 436-657 lb/in
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      01-27-2021, 02:41 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeanM View Post
Poochie You crack me up man, I do love ya. But the argument is not that simple.

I called Eibach and spoke with them about their springs for the F80/F82 and F87. I was told that these spring are made in Germany where they are developed and tested to work with the factory dampers (adaptive or static). I was told that some springs are manufactured here, but ones that have already had the development done at Germany HQ are carried over to US market (albeit sometimes with a changed part number). I do understand the point of the "these weren't engineered for the car" argument, but to imply that they are equivalent to some knock off eBay springs is simply not accurate.

Furthermore, the fact that BMW produces (via KW) a lowering option for their F80/F82 is further evidence that it can't be wholly detrimental to the handling. For example, why would the BMW kit have a limit on how much it can be lowered versus the KW kit if they weren't managing that parameter to ensure it's up to their standard and would not be doing harm to the car?

For what it's worth:

Eibach Springs:

F82 M4 Coupe E10-20-037-01-22
Front: Linear 182 lb/in
Rear: Progressive 360-628 lb/in

F87 M2 Coupe E10-20-035-01-22
Front: Linear 200 lb/in
Rear: Progressive 436-657 lb/in
I don't know Poochie and I'm new to the forum. I don't love him yet. I do love his passion for pursuit of perfection albiet a little too black and white for me.

Thanks for your logic thoughts and deeper research. All I know is my box of Eibach springs says made in GERMANY.
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      01-27-2021, 02:56 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeanM View Post
Poochie You crack me up man, I do love ya. But the argument is not that simple.

I called Eibach and spoke with them about their springs for the F80/F82 and F87. I was told that these spring are made in Germany where they are developed and tested to work with the factory dampers (adaptive or static). I was told that some springs are manufactured here, but ones that have already had the development done at Germany HQ are carried over to US market (albeit sometimes with a changed part number). I do understand the point of the "these weren't engineered for the car" argument, but to imply that they are equivalent to some knock off eBay springs is simply not accurate.

Furthermore, the fact that BMW produces (via KW) a lowering option for their F80/F82 is further evidence that it can't be wholly detrimental to the handling. For example, why would the BMW kit have a limit on how much it can be lowered versus the KW kit if they weren't managing that parameter to ensure it's up to their standard and would not be doing harm to the car?

For what it's worth:

Eibach Springs:

F82 M4 Coupe E10-20-037-01-22
Front: Linear 182 lb/in
Rear: Progressive 360-628 lb/in

F87 M2 Coupe E10-20-035-01-22
Front: Linear 200 lb/in
Rear: Progressive 436-657 lb/in
So, you're saying that the people who's trying to sell you a produce, endorses it and say it's ok for your vehicle.. There's a shocker..

It reminds of that time a call girl told me she really likes me for my personality..

OEM shocks were not designed to work with lowered springs.

It comes down to travel. Coil springs will allow your suspension to go through a certain amount of travel — both up and down — before it ends up neutral in the middle. The shock absorber has to have the same range of motion as the coil, that way it's able to keep it under control.

Now, here's where the lowering springs come into play: A lowered car typically has less travel than a stock vehicle is design to rebound. Lowering the springs will lead to faster shock wear & tear, harsh noises, as it slams against the stock bump stop, due to the reduce travel, possible causing handling issues and in the case of the CS, possible check control errors.

Basically, the vehicle's dampers will be operating from a point below where it's comfortable or harmonic, as originally intended for.

If you want to drop your vehicle, the proper way to do it is purchase shocks and springs that are matched together, such as KW coilovers, code out the EDC and get an appropriate alignment.

The half-ass, ghetto way of mismatching springs and shocks are reserved for your typical $500 hoopty, not a high-performance BMW, with electronic dampers, tuned to work with the vehicle's set dynamics.

Hey, It's your funeral but just know that each one of those shocks for the CS cost a $1,000 per side, so just put some Benjamin aside for when you have to replace them in six months or so..



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      01-27-2021, 03:08 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
So, you're saying that the people who's trying to sell you a produce, endorses it and say it's ok for your vehicle.. There's a shocker..

Hey, It's your funeral but just know that each one of those shocks for the CS cost a $1,000 per side, so just put some Benjamin aside for when you have to replace them in six months or so..
Your passion runs deep!

Anyway, let's agree to disagree on this one. 1st place pissing trophies for everyone.

I would like to know one thing. Have you ever modified a car? Maybe you have replaced BMW approved and designed tires with non BMW Tires?

Gotta love the hypocrites in this world.

They do allow me to drop $4000 on shocks every six months so I can't complain that much.
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      01-27-2021, 03:22 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
So, you're saying that the people who's trying to sell you a produce, endorses it and say it's ok for your vehicle.. There's a shocker..

It reminds of that time a call girl told me she really likes me for my personality..

OEM shocks were not designed to work with lowered springs.

It comes down to travel. Coil springs will allow your suspension to go through a certain amount of travel — both up and down — before it ends up neutral in the middle. The shock absorber has to have the same range of motion as the coil, that way it's able to keep it under control.

Now, here's where the lowering springs come into play: A lowered car typically has less travel than a stock vehicle is design to rebound. Lowering the springs will lead to faster shock wear & tear, harsh noises, as it slams against the stock bump stop, due to the reduce travel, possible causing handling issues and in the case of the CS, possible check control errors.

Basically, the vehicle's dampers will be operating from a point below where it's comfortable or harmonic, as originally intended for.

If you want to drop your vehicle, the proper way to do it is purchase shocks and springs that are matched together, such as KW coilovers, code out the EDC and get an appropriate alignment.

The half-ass, ghetto way of mismatching springs and shocks are reserved for your typical $500 hoopty, not a high-performance BMW, with electronic dampers, tuned to work with the vehicle's set dynamics.

Hey, It's your funeral but just know that each one of those shocks for the CS cost a $1,000 per side, so just put some Benjamin aside for when you have to replace them in six months or so..
.
No, I'm trying to say that equating Eibach (or other) tested and developed springs to a hack job mis-matched spring set isn't a valid assessment.

I understand the argument behind your point. And if we were talking about slamming the car, or getting out the hack saw to cut springs then all of those points make sense. But that's not what we're talking about.

If lowering you car is ALWAYS a bad idea, and ALWAYS messes up handling and ALWAYS ruins your stock shocks then why does BMW make a kit to allow you to lower their car *within a range* that they approve to their standards?
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      01-27-2021, 03:22 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptgltw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
So, you're saying that the people who's trying to sell you a produce, endorses it and say it's ok for your vehicle.. There's a shocker..

Hey, It's your funeral but just know that each one of those shocks for the CS cost a $1,000 per side, so just put some Benjamin aside for when you have to replace them in six months or so..
Your passion runs deep sir.

Anyway, let's agree to disagree on this one. [SIZE="6"]1st place pissing trophies for everyone. [/SIZE]

I would like to know one thing. Have you ever modified a car?

Maybe you have replaced BMW approved and designed tires with non BMW Tires? Gotta love the hypacrites in this world.

I work in DC and around them all day. They do allow me to drop $4000 on shocks every six months so I can't complain that much.

Happy for you bro but my original comment wasn't intended for anyone here specifically but you seem to latched on and took it personally..
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      01-27-2021, 03:26 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeanM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
So, you're saying that the people who's trying to sell you a produce, endorses it and say it's ok for your vehicle.. There's a shocker..

It reminds of that time a call girl told me she really likes me for my personality..

OEM shocks were not designed to work with lowered springs.

It comes down to travel. Coil springs will allow your suspension to go through a certain amount of travel — both up and down — before it ends up neutral in the middle. The shock absorber has to have the same range of motion as the coil, that way it's able to keep it under control.

Now, here's where the lowering springs come into play: A lowered car typically has less travel than a stock vehicle is design to rebound. Lowering the springs will lead to faster shock wear & tear, harsh noises, as it slams against the stock bump stop, due to the reduce travel, possible causing handling issues and in the case of the CS, possible check control errors.

Basically, the vehicle's dampers will be operating from a point below where it's comfortable or harmonic, as originally intended for.

If you want to drop your vehicle, the proper way to do it is purchase shocks and springs that are matched together, such as KW coilovers, code out the EDC and get an appropriate alignment.

The half-ass, ghetto way of mismatching springs and shocks are reserved for your typical $500 hoopty, not a high-performance BMW, with electronic dampers, tuned to work with the vehicle's set dynamics.

Hey, It's your funeral but just know that each one of those shocks for the CS cost a $1,000 per side, so just put some Benjamin aside for when you have to replace them in six months or so..
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No, I'm trying to say that equating Eibach (or other) tested and developed springs to a hack job mis-matched spring set isn't a valid assessment.

I understand the argument behind your point. And if we were talking about slamming the car, or getting out the hack saw to cut springs then all of those points make sense. But that's not what we're talking about.

If lowering you car is ALWAYS a bad idea, and ALWAYS messes up handling and ALWAYS ruins your stock shocks then why does BMW make a kit to allow you to lower their car *within a range* that they approve to their standards?
Fair enough, you seem to know what you're doing and the potential consequences of your modification, so there is only so much left to say.

With that said, let's just leave it here and move forward. Best wishes..
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