[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ptgltw

You cant win the the keyboard suspension engineers my friend. They know what's best for you.
Get used to everyone trying to knock off #1. They are coming after the M2CS hard. Doesn't make sense to me. They should be proud of the success BMW has had with their new flagship sports car.
I've been used to it for a while driving around my overrated E30 M3's and my overrated LTW's for years. Now with the M2CS.
Funny thing is thou. When most of these haters see the car in person they either want a ride or want to take pics of the cars or ask me questions.
Not one has come up to me in person and called it overrated. I wouldn't mind it, I appreciate honesty. But they fold when given the chance to be in person with these cars and their owners.
Keyboards make it so much easier.

Petrolheads can be passionate about their opinions.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by MomoM3

I wonder if the GTS 4.0 crowd does the same to the GT4 crowd

Secret was Porsche released the GT4 first. It may have been a whole different dynamic if M followed suit.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Secret was Porsche released the GT4 first. It may have been a whole different dynamic if M followed suit.

Allow me to take a walk down memory lane:

April 2017:

Originally Posted by Artemis

Catch my drift:

BMW 1M (2011):

• make it look and feel bold to distance it from the BMW 135i;
• make it 'manual only' to avoid trespassing the bigger brother's comfort zone;
• hype it as a purist's car ("M Pure").

Trivia:

• Dr. Kay Segler (M Division boss who secured the 1M project) when asked during a workshop at the 2011 Detroit Auto Show (Jan 2011) to coin the 1M in a single phrase:
  "The 1M is basically a truncated M3 Competition Package with a manual".
  He added that the 1M does not need more power and that the production volume was kept low "to keep resale value as high as possible - creating an instant classic".
  (source: http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/01/21/bm...-need-to-know/)
  
• Info of January 2010 pointing out that it was a deliberate choice to keep the 1M out of the M3 comfort zone (engine + power):
  "The M1 [1M] will not feature a V8 that remains exclusive to the M3. The engine is based on the updated N55 [read: N54] six cylinder but reconfigured by the M Division to accommodate Twin-Turbo and a high performance intercooler.
  PS Output is at 345PS again not to tread on the toes of the M3."
  (source: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=59)
  
• "With the M3 overlooking the M1 [1M]'s shoulder it will be positioned not to outclass that car in terms of power. Which is why it will be in the mid three hundreds [PS]."
  (source: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...&postcount=108)
• In October 2012 AMG R&D chief Tobias Moers referred to the BMW 1M as benchmark within its league: "But I soon realized that this was a unique opportunity to rewrite the rules, to set new standards and eclipse the competition. From day one, I wanted this car [Merc A45 AMG] to better the BMW 1-series M coupe."
  (source http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...amg_prototype/)

Porsche Cayman GT4 (2015):

• make it look and feel bold to distance it from the Cayman GTS;
• make it 'manual only' (Cayman GTS gearbox and ratios) to avoid trespassing the bigger brother's comfort zone (small note: Cayman GTS gearbox take rate in 2014: 5% 6MT vs. 95% PDK);
• hype it as a purist's car ("GT Pure").

Oct 2017:

Originally Posted by Artemis

Let me tell you this story again.

Early 2014 Porsche released the Cayman GTS. During Summer 2014, merely by chance, I encountered a white Cayman GTS with manual gearbox on a mountain pass in the Alps (we drove uphill and both stopped at the summit). It was a US citizen who was driving his brand-new Cayman GTS around during a Porsche European Delivery. I congratulated him with his purchase and his choice for a manual. He told me that the folks at Porsche had told him that his car was a rare bird, as the take-rate for the manual gearbox was only 5 percent (yes, that's no typo: "five"), 95% choosing PDK. So he had not read that info in some car magazine or on a dedicated forum - no, he got that info straight from the horse's mouth when taking delivery at Porsche in Germany.

Needless to say that I was a little skeptical when just a few months later (February 2015) I heard the great Porsche GT boss Andreas Preuninger explaining that the Cayman GT4 was 'manual only' "because we listened to our customers". To my ears, though well-presented (AP is truly an ace on top of his case, who deserves all our respect, also by repeatedly recommending to get a manual gearbox), that statement sounded a little too much like marketing talk to turn the attention away from the fact that, in the twisties, the vast majority of 911 cars could barely, or even not at all, shake loose a (hypothetical) Cayman GT4 with PDK. In my view, the Cayman GT4 got a detuned 911 engine (385-ish hp) and the GTS manual gearbox (with that long 2nd gear ratio) to somehow keep it 'within its place/cage' in the Porsche hierarchy + an attractive price to ensure sales in case the usual PDK and 911 customers would be reluctant to buy (avoid a flop, as markets can sometimes react in an unpredictable fashion).

We all know by now that - alike the 2011 'manual only' 1M - the 2015 Cayman GT4 did not flop at all: it sold like hot cakes and even went down the automotive history books as an instant classic, for all the right reasons. However, if the Cayman GT4 had been offered with both PDK and manual gearbox, the vast majority would have undoubtedly opted for the PDK. Yes, manual gearbox sales could have been more than 5%, but still a rather low figure. By making the Cayman GT4 'manual only', you got inevitably a 100% take-rate + favorable winds of car press and enthusiasts in your sails.

Picture of my (former) VO 1M next to a brand-new Cayman GTS in the Alps (Nufenen Pass - Passo della Novena) in Summer 2014:

Sep 2015:

Originally Posted by Artemis

Hm, Porsche must have studied the 1M business case: let's get the smaller car some big brother goodies, set an attractive value-for-money price, make it manual only to avoid threatening the donor and we'll market the manual only choice as an oldskool benefit: hello 2015 Cayman GT4 + Boxster Spyder.

And look what the Porsche GT boss Andreas Preuninger stated during a presentation on Sep 27, 2015 ?

• the overwhelming demand for the GT4 was rather underestimated by Porsche; worldwide GT4 production was initially scheduled for 1,600 cars, but now got ramped up to 2,500 - 3,000 (until next gen);
• the success of the GT4 in a manual version has helped make the case that there is a market demand for that type of transmission in the Porsche GT product line;
• no PDK version of the 981 gen Cayman GT4; the current GT4 is scheduled to continue for the duration of at least MY2016;
• the next base GT3 might as well get a manual transmission as an alternative (option) to PDK;
• no manual offered on any future version GT3 RS; Porsche considers the GT3 RS to be a track-oriented product whose mission is best served with a PDK transmission;
• no 981 gen GT4 RS, due to constraints in engineering demands;
• GT2 will happen;
• natural aspirated engines will continue for all GT3 and GT4 products into the foreseeable future.

Interesting. Save the manuals !

May 2015:

Originally Posted by Artemis

I can imagine that some Porsche Cayman GTS owners have mixed "if only I would have known" emotions about the introduction of the Cayman GT4 less than a year after the introduction of the Cayman GTS:

• Porsche press release of March 19, 2014: introduction of the Boxster GTS and Cayman GTS models
  http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=853
  http://press.porsche.com/news/pdf/20...Cayman-GTS.pdf
• Porsche press release of February 3, 2015: introduction of the Cayman GT4 model
  http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=905
  http://press.porsche.com/news/pdf/20...Cayman-GT4.pdf

[Wah]

Originally Posted by adc

I say placebo.

Yup, no difference whatsoever... it's all in my head.

Originally Posted by Bimmercs

Exactly , As true enthusiasts and petrolheads we have to appreciate and admire the work BMW done creating such a legendary car , a succesful NEW M series car , that won many hearts (most important) , and awards against other legendary cars such Mclaren 765LT etc .

True about the meets , no one would come and say to us wow - what an overpriced car - instead they enjoy watching the car ! Why is this happening these days?

...

I think I'm the only idiot that was delighted that this car came out and it was "only" $85k.

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by Wah

Yup, no difference whatsoever... it's all in my head.

I think I'm the only idiot that was delighted that this car came out and it was "only" $85k.

You wasnt alone , i was in the same boat with you too lol .

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Attachment 2531204

aaaaaaaah, the Far Side, I miss them days

[TRL]

Wish I had got here sooner guys.
Could have saved you 7 pages of discussions. Mind you I guess the forum would then be redundant.

We supplied Raz this M2 CS.
It came about by chance after Raz had done a feature with Chris Harris.
Chris suggested that the CS was a safe purchase if Raz could find one and that its a stunning car to add to his garage, despite Raz's soft spot for AMG products.
We have worked with Raz and Joe Achilles as we all hang out locally in the same circles (check out The Gas Station studio videos on Joe Achilles channel for our poor attempt at recreating Influencers Top Gear) under his Berry bmw section.

We happened to have this blue car and through my buddy Bimmerdeals at our dealership a deal was struck.

The Michelin P4S were fitted at Raz's request as cup 2s at this time of year are eye opening at best..
We arranged through Deutsch Tec to fit the Eibach springs and had the suspension alignment adjusted to suit. This was done mainly for cosmetic reasons as the front of the car looked like the transport blocks were still in.
I am sure Raz won't mind me saying, and any of you who watch Remove Before Race will know... That he's hardly likely to take the car on track never mind a trip around the Ring. So he's not chasing the ultimate lap times here.

It was not a sponsored deal nor an advert for Berry BMW, though conveniently
We had just purchased the showroom used for the collection so it was nice to get some exposure during lockdown.

As the guy who quoted earlier said, it's just a case of a salted banana.

Now I am off to sell Shmee, Joe Achilles and Archie Hamilton a new car whilst bunging £25K to Iain Litchfield as he's a bit short this month....

[ptgltw]

Originally Posted by TRL

The Michelin P4S were fitted at Raz's request as cup 2s at this time of year are eye opening at best..
We arranged through Deutsch Tec to fit the Eibach springs and had the suspension alignment adjusted to suit. This was done mainly for cosmetic reasons as the front of the car looked like the transport blocks were still in.

My first event with my CS. A guy comes up to me and says....why is the front higher than the back?

I said that's the way the factory made it....

The comment stuck with me and a week later Eibachs were on the car and "image" problem solved.

In any case, salted banana case for me as well.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I hope he enjoys the car and gets it out often.

PS: I wonder how the PS4's work with the car since PSS is what the factory spec'd as the other tire.

[PLF69]

"Influencers Top Gear"

No more needs to be said..

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Bimmed Out

Had to do a double-take when the GT3 was introduced. Hilarious. You just can’t make this stuff up.

Do you know what Porsche dared to call "a promise" in 2020 ?

See from 00:36 onwards to find out...

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by TRL

We arranged through Deutsch Tec to fit the Eibach springs and had the suspension alignment adjusted to suit. This was done mainly for cosmetic reasons as the front of the car looked like the transport blocks were still in.

Originally Posted by ptgltw

My first event with my CS. A guy comes up to me and says....why is the front higher than the back?
I said that's the way the factory made it....
The comment stuck with me and a week later Eibachs were on the car and "image" problem solved.

You'll all notice that your stock M2 sits rather high on its feet in the early stages, but subsequently 'sinks' a bit as you keep piling miles. It 'settles' through use.