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      04-26-2019, 10:49 PM   #23
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Whatever it's worth to you from my experience:

I just sold my 2017 M2 last saturday and picked up my 2020 M2C on monday (both manual). The M2C feels like a completely different car. It actually blows my mind just how much BMW were able to improve the car in terms of handling and behavior through corners and the overall ride quality. The engine is amazing too. So happy I made the switch, the price difference would be worth it to me and I would 100% do it again.
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      04-27-2019, 05:40 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
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Originally Posted by qnet View Post
Ok, I will have a different perspective than most.

I would keep the M235i, mod it how you like, enjoy it, pay it off, then get the G87 M2 when it comes out.

This is an M2 forum so you will get biased opinions. I had an M235i and IMO it's not the slouch most on this forum make it out to be.

My story is, I really wanted an M2 form the beginning, but settled for a M235i, got a Focus RS, before finally getting a M2.

Long story short, in my first scenario, I should have listened to others on this forum and just got an M2 in 2016. Second scenario, I should have kept my M235i once I had it, with the mods I had done to it. I had the Dinan springs, intake, exhaust and resonator delete. Some wouldn't believe it, but the combination of all those things really changed the characteristics of the car in a positive way IMO. Reading the things you are going to do with the car, I think you would really like it.

I also had a staggered set of MPSS tires with VMR wheels for the summer and swapped them out during winter months with the stock runflats. I also ran spacers with the stock tire set after installing the Dinan springs. The M2 does ride a little stiffer than the M235i, but it's not that drastic from my experience.

On a side note; The Focus RS was a really fun car also. If I were rich I'd kept it along with the M2.

Having said all that, I love my M2 and it's no joke. It's more planted & tighter when pushed compared to my M235i, and more fun to drive. It also looks nicer and more aggressive, which goes without saying. I did one HPDE in my M235i and it was really fun. For regular people with not a lot of track experience, these modern BMWs really do a lot of electronic trickery in the background to save you, even in a M235i with an open diff. BMW sets these cars up well for the everyday person.

I can't imagine what driving my M2 at Road Atlanta will be like. I'm almost scared I'll have too much confidence because how much the car can seemingly take. The M2 is so bad-a$$, that it doesn't feel that much different than my Focus RS did, which is AWD. It in fact feels more planted and has less body roll.
Great perspective. Folks here act like the designated M vehicle can run circles around their standard BMW vehicles, which is not even close to true. Just check any verses YouTube video to confirm this fact.

What really handicaps most standard BMW as oppose to their M counterpart, such as the 340/240i, is the intentional lack of a mechanical LSD and smaller sized rear wheels.

Throw on a mechanical LSD and some bigger wheels on any equivalent-powered BMW to level the playing field and I bet any standard vehicle would handle just as good.

I love the M designed vehicles but when you break them down to a science, they're practically just standard BMW that where emphasized with some components skewed towards hard-core driving or track usage, which is overkill for most owners who only daily drive their vehicle here and there.
If you think you can add lsd and bigger wheels to a M235i and it will be comparable to a M2 then you are mistaken.

BMW designs M cars from the ground up. They are based on their regular models but they are designed to be performance cars. They have different engines, different suspensions, different body panels and aerodynamics. All of the specifically designed components are put together to create a M car. It's not like you can buy a M235i/M240i, add on some bolt ons and you will have a M car - not quite!
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      04-27-2019, 06:01 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Ikester19 View Post
If you think you can add lsd and bigger wheels to a M235i and it will be comparable to a M2 then you are mistaken.

BMW designs M cars from the ground up. They are based on their regular models but they are designed to be performance cars. They have different engines, different suspensions, different body panels and aerodynamics. All of the specifically designed components are put together to create a M car. It's not like you can buy a M235i/M240i, add on some bolt ons and you will have a M car - not quite!
I'm not going to get into another debate and wasn't trying to offend you folks that are drowning in that M Koolaid.

I already stated the intended purpose and strength of both vehicles, their compromises and their suited demands.
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      04-27-2019, 06:31 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Project_F87 View Post
Whatever it's worth to you from my experience:

I just sold my 2017 M2 last saturday and picked up my 2020 M2C on monday (both manual). The M2C feels like a completely different car. It actually blows my mind just how much BMW were able to improve the car in terms of handling and behavior through corners and the overall ride quality. The engine is amazing too. So happy I made the switch, the price difference would be worth it to me and I would 100% do it again.
What are the main improvements that the M2C made for you over your OG M2? Are / were you running manual, or DSG? Is there anything that you miss about your first M2?
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      04-27-2019, 06:49 AM   #27
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My advice is to also go with the M2. Get the car you want. If you’re going to spend a bunch of cash to bring your m235 closer to M2 just go for the real deal.
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      04-27-2019, 08:05 AM   #28
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I just went from a 2016 M235i 8ZF to a 2019 M2C DCT in January. A few things I noticed.

1. The M2C is noticeably louder in all respect. Road noise, wind noise, engine noise, exhaust, etc. Much of the insulation that I noticed on the M235i simply isn't present on my M2C.

2. The ride is stiffer, all the time. At least with the M235i you had adaptive dampers to smooth things out when you wanted.

3. I know you wanted 6MT, but the DCT is noticeably less refined from around town driving. Bumps and jolts and other DCT quirks are noticeable over the 8ZF. I think I might get tired of those if I had to daily drive my M2C.

Side note, I have an M235i MPerf LSD sitting in my garage in a box. I have the MPerf Exhaust with carbon tips also. I had those taken off my M235i before trading it in. I haven't posted either for sale primarily because I'm lazy, but also because I think shipping would be pretty pricey, but I haven't honestly looked.
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      04-27-2019, 08:17 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by orangeglim View Post
I just went from a 2016 M235i 8ZF to a 2019 M2C DCT in January. A few things I noticed.

1. The M2C is noticeably louder in all respect. Road noise, wind noise, engine noise, exhaust, etc. Much of the insulation that I noticed on the M235i simply isn't present on my M2C.

2. The ride is stiffer, all the time. At least with the M235i you had adaptive dampers to smooth things out when you wanted.

3. I know you wanted 6MT, but the DCT is noticeably less refined from around town driving. Bumps and jolts and other DCT quirks are noticeable over the 8ZF. I think I might get tired of those if I had to daily drive my M2C.

Side note, I have an M235i MPerf LSD sitting in my garage in a box. I have the MPerf Exhaust with carbon tips also. I had those taken off my M235i before trading it in. I haven't posted either for sale primarily because I'm lazy, but also because I think shipping would be pretty pricey, but I haven't honestly looked.
Yeah, those would be pricey to ship. where are you based? I'm sure that you could sell them for local pickup if you post them in the classified section of the 2addicts forum... the M performance exhaust in particular is a popular part.

I hadn't thought about the decreased sound insulation... that's a good point. The low speed jerkiness of the DCT is another thing that encourages me to avoid it... seems strange when the VAG DCT has been smooth for so long.
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      04-27-2019, 11:48 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by sevenmarc View Post
Yeah, those would be pricey to ship. where are you based? I'm sure that you could sell them for local pickup if you post them in the classified section of the 2addicts forum... the M performance exhaust in particular is a popular part.

I hadn't thought about the decreased sound insulation... that's a good point. The low speed jerkiness of the DCT is another thing that encourages me to avoid it... seems strange when the VAG DCT has been smooth for so long.
I'm in Raleigh, NC.

The DCT doesn't have a lot of low speed jerkiness, just some quirky thumps and bumps, usually while coming to a stop when it engages the clutch at low engine speeds. That said, the shifts on the DCT are stupidly fast, I enjoy it. I thought about getting the 6MT but don't regret it at all.

The interior is basically the same as your M235i, not much difference there. The HK audio system is basically the same as well. I do love the wireless CarPlay though, it's awesome, I use it every day and the integration between it and iDrive far eclipses the CarPlay experience in my Honda Ridgeline.
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      04-27-2019, 11:51 AM   #31
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I hadn't thought about the decreased sound insulation... that's a good point.
Thought I should expand on this. The things I've noticed specifically is the lack of any sort of mat/cover on the inside of the hood. It's just sheet metal, no cover, or anything like I've seen on every other car for...as long as I can remember. Also, the inside of the wheel wells on my M235i were lined with a felt-like material. It's just plastic on my M2C. I'm sure there's other areas too, but I've not specifically noticed.
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      04-27-2019, 12:43 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeglim View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenmarc View Post
I hadn't thought about the decreased sound insulation... that's a good point.
Thought I should expand on this. The things I've noticed specifically is the lack of any sort of mat/cover on the inside of the hood. It's just sheet metal, no cover, or anything like I've seen on every other car for...as long as I can remember. Also, the inside of the wheel wells on my M235i were lined with a felt-like material. It's just plastic on my M2C. I'm sure there's other areas too, but I've not specifically noticed.
You've not been around any of the M line then. Not needed, less weight track focused.
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      04-27-2019, 12:45 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeglim View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenmarc View Post
I hadn't thought about the decreased sound insulation... that's a good point.
Thought I should expand on this. The things I've noticed specifically is the lack of any sort of mat/cover on the inside of the hood. It's just sheet metal, no cover, or anything like I've seen on every other car for...as long as I can remember. Also, the inside of the wheel wells on my M235i were lined with a felt-like material. It's just plastic on my M2C. I'm sure there's other areas too, but I've not specifically noticed.
I remember reading about this a while ago... apparently the eliminated a decent amount of sound insulation in the M2 and M2C to reduce weight. Post 8 on this page has links to the diagrams for the M2 and the M240 if you're interested: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1386255
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      04-27-2019, 01:17 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenmarc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeglim View Post
I just went from a 2016 M235i 8ZF to a 2019 M2C DCT in January. A few things I noticed.

1. The M2C is noticeably louder in all respect. Road noise, wind noise, engine noise, exhaust, etc. Much of the insulation that I noticed on the M235i simply isn't present on my M2C.

2. The ride is stiffer, all the time. At least with the M235i you had adaptive dampers to smooth things out when you wanted.

3. I know you wanted 6MT, but the DCT is noticeably less refined from around town driving. Bumps and jolts and other DCT quirks are noticeable over the 8ZF. I think I might get tired of those if I had to daily drive my M2C.

Side note, I have an M235i MPerf LSD sitting in my garage in a box. I have the MPerf Exhaust with carbon tips also. I had those taken off my M235i before trading it in. I haven't posted either for sale primarily because I'm lazy, but also because I think shipping would be pretty pricey, but I haven't honestly looked.
Yeah, those would be pricey to ship. where are you based? I'm sure that you could sell them for local pickup if you post them in the classified section of the 2addicts forum... the M performance exhaust in particular is a popular part.

I hadn't thought about the decreased sound insulation... that's a good point. The low speed jerkiness of the DCT is another thing that encourages me to avoid it... seems strange when the VAG DCT has been smooth for so long.
I personally like the quirkyness of the DCT, but on paper it's a bad thing. Hard to explain to someone why you prefer this sometimes jerky transmission over a smooth zf8.

That being said if you want a manual and you have a zf8 in the m235i and you can afford to get a manual m2, I think you should do it rather than throw money at your m235i.
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      04-27-2019, 02:54 PM   #35
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I'm a previous M235i owner. I upgraded to BBS CI-R wheels and 235/35, 265/30 MPS 4S tires. It made a huge difference in handling. Since the M235i has different suspension and a narrower track, it feels like a smaller car than the M2C. My M2C feels just a little bit bigger and much more planted. It just does everything right when it comes to handling. The M235i is a great daily and the ZF8 enables it to get much better mpg on the freeway. I could get 32mpg easily on the freeway driving 75 mph. There is no way my M2C could get close to that. I would make the switch again in a second though. It cost me a pretty penny to upgrade so that is a deal breaker for some people.
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      04-27-2019, 03:17 PM   #36
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I'm a previous M235i owner. I upgraded to BBS CI-R wheels and 235/35, 265/30 MPS 4S tires. It made a huge difference in handling. Since the M235i has different suspension and a narrower track, it feels like a smaller car than the M2C. My M2C feels just a little bit bigger and much more planted. It just does everything right when it comes to handling. The M235i is a great daily and the ZF8 enables it to get much better mpg on the freeway. I could get 32mpg easily on the freeway driving 75 mph. There is no way my M2C could get close to that. I would make the switch again in a second though. It cost me a pretty penny to upgrade so that is a deal breaker for some people.
What drove you to the M2C over the OG M2? No judgement at all, just genuinely want to hear your thoughts.
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      04-27-2019, 03:31 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenmarc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeglim View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenmarc View Post
I hadn't thought about the decreased sound insulation... that's a good point.
Thought I should expand on this. The things I've noticed specifically is the lack of any sort of mat/cover on the inside of the hood. It's just sheet metal, no cover, or anything like I've seen on every other car for...as long as I can remember. Also, the inside of the wheel wells on my M235i were lined with a felt-like material. It's just plastic on my M2C. I'm sure there's other areas too, but I've not specifically noticed.
I remember reading about this a while ago... apparently the eliminated a decent amount of sound insulation in the M2 and M2C to reduce weight. Post 8 on this page has links to the diagrams for the M2 and the M240 if you're interested: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1386255
I mean the insulation in the door jams where the fender is weighs about as much as napkin, so not sure it really saves much. You would save about as much weight by not wearing socks, maybe.
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      04-27-2019, 04:46 PM   #38
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The DCT is just more fun than the ZF8
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      04-27-2019, 05:00 PM   #39
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The DCT is just more fun than the ZF8
It sounds like it is, but I know that I'll eventually regret not getting a manual... just a matter of time.
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      04-27-2019, 05:12 PM   #40
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What drove you to the M2C over the OG M2? No judgement at all, just genuinely want to hear your thoughts.
At the time that I bought mine the discounts on the M2 weren't that great, maybe 2k or 3k. I was able to get my M2C at 3k off since I did European Delivery. The M2C at 4.5k more is well worth it. The S55 engine is a beast. I know the sound...whatever. The M4 style seats are beautiful and you see them every time you get in the car. I don't find them less comfortable than the M235i seats. Softer is not always more comfortable, it comes down to support and having the seats adjusted properly. I'm not going to go down the whole list of upgrades. The engine and the seats alone is worth the money to me. From my perspective why would I buy last year's model when I could have a 2019 in September of 2018? Now you can have a 2020 year model. Why get a 2018…just find a discount.
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      04-27-2019, 05:45 PM   #41
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenmarc View Post
What drove you to the M2C over the OG M2? No judgement at all, just genuinely want to hear your thoughts.
At the time that I bought mine the discounts on the M2 weren't that great, maybe 2k or 3k. I was able to get my M2C at 3k off since I did European Delivery. The M2C at 4.5k more is well worth it. The S55 engine is a beast. I know the sound...whatever. The M4 style seats are beautiful and you see them every time you get in the car. I don't find them less comfortable than the M235i seats. Softer is not always more comfortable, it comes down to support and having the seats adjusted properly. I'm not going to go down the whole list of upgrades. The engine and the seats alone is worth the money to me. From my perspective why would I buy last year's model when I could have a 2019 in September of 2018? Now you can have a 2020 year model. Why get a 2018…just find a discount.
That makes perfect sense. I'm glad that you're enjoying it!
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      04-28-2019, 11:37 AM   #42
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I like stock form so I would save it for M2 rather than modifying m235. It sells easy as stock form, no headache dealing with mod, saves money, stock is the basically the end stage of the mod imo.
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      04-28-2019, 12:23 PM   #43
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Compared to an M235i, the M2 is a level or two higher in all aspects.

However, have you considered getting an M240i instead of an M2 and modding that? I had a 340i (tune, downpipe, intake) prior to my M2 and miss the B58 a ton! I loved how simple it was to make good power, I gained almost 80whp with a $500 tune. No need for an intercooler or seven different replacement pipes.

The M2 offers a more visceral experience than the M235i/M240i and I would say is a big step up over the M235i but the M240i closes the gap. I was actually primarily shopping for an M240i over the M2, but could not pass up on the deal I got. I'm glad I chose the M2 in the end as it's what I personally wanted in a car, but the M240i is 90% of the M2, more comfortable, better engine, more than enough handling capability unless you're a track junkie. Option it with an LSD and traction issues and unpredictability become a moot point. The only things the M2 has over the M240i is better looks, (barely) faster transmission, and better handling/steering. The B58 also performs better than the N55 and sounds much better than both the N55/S55, in my opinion.

I certainly wouldn't count out the M240i as an option, although it might be too similar to justify a new purchase over the M235i.
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      04-28-2019, 03:37 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wassy4 View Post
Compared to an M235i, the M2 is a level or two higher in all aspects.

However, have you considered getting an M240i instead of an M2 and modding that? I had a 340i (tune, downpipe, intake) prior to my M2 and miss the B58 a ton! I loved how simple it was to make good power, I gained almost 80whp with a $500 tune. No need for an intercooler or seven different replacement pipes.

The M2 offers a more visceral experience than the M235i/M240i and I would say is a big step up over the M235i but the M240i closes the gap. I was actually primarily shopping for an M240i over the M2, but could not pass up on the deal I got. I'm glad I chose the M2 in the end as it's what I personally wanted in a car, but the M240i is 90% of the M2, more comfortable, better engine, more than enough handling capability unless you're a track junkie. Option it with an LSD and traction issues and unpredictability become a moot point. The only things the M2 has over the M240i is better looks, (barely) faster transmission, and better handling/steering. The B58 also performs better than the N55 and sounds much better than both the N55/S55, in my opinion.

I certainly wouldn't count out the M240i as an option, although it might be too similar to justify a new purchase over the M235i.
You make a strong point. I've never felt the need for more power in my car though (that's a first for me); I'm chasing that visceral feeling that you described having in your M2. I can definitely see how going to the N55 platform after having had a tuned B58 car would be tough though.

I've heard that the B58 sounds good; I didn't realize that it sounds even better than the N55 work M2 exhaust. Given the delta between a used M2 and a used 240 plus having to do all the same handling mods that I would need to do to my current car to get it where I want it to be, the M2 is feeling like the better choice for me.

Have you modded you M2?
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