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      03-20-2016, 08:50 AM   #23
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Though you've already outlined ruling it out, I still think the M4 is your best bet because of the ease and convenience of a larger coupe for your DD chores.
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      03-20-2016, 08:58 AM   #24
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http://www.autobild.de/artikel/bmw-m...t-8738517.html

German Autobild tested an MG manual M2 vs the new 991.2 Carrera(3.0 biturbo) PDK.

On Contidrom the Porsche was 2 sec faster (1:32 something)
So that seems a lot, and it is a lot, but in general the M2 can easily stay with the 991.

They find it THE bargain for the buck. Because the Porsche is almost twice as expensive. And the M2 weighs 80kgs more and it wasn't a DCT which could have shaved of one second probably(?)

Anyway, I'm not a normal 991 guy, GT3RS or something is fine thank you.
Having testdriven a 997S(quality etc) I did not find it great through the bends, there was that speedboat kind of understeer initially what is typical 911 behavior with nothing upfront and an engine in the back. I knew that(I als drove a handful of older 911s through the years)

The OP's car looks nice, but the car in that test in white, I don't like the profile sorry. I won't say it's outdated already. Then that should have been already when it was first constructed in '63 with that engine in a weird place j/k

And I know the traction and brakepressure benefits of that 'design' in racing.

No offence to the '911' in general, it's an icon for many.

So 80kgs more weight, >50k euros less expensive and a manual vs PDK...

I think the M2 did more than fine.

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      03-20-2016, 09:53 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attuale View Post
For example, If could I afford a 911 I wouldn't even consider an M2.

But then, there's the price. And what it can do for the price. And that's why I bought one.
I can afford the 991S (just sold it actually) and still opted for the M2 due to simply practicality (its my daily) and bang for the buck. The 991 was my 5th 911 and the M2 will be my very first M car so time will tell if I stay an M owner. The 911 is expensive to own and if you put high mileage on it as I tend to do they you are in for a rude awakening for resale. Porsche 911 buyers DO NOT like high mileage cars.

But like I said prior with the new 991.2's coming out I get a feeling we will see a drop in 991.1 values IF there's considerable uptake in the new version. If there isn't considerable uptake due to its now inflated MSRP ($10k on all 911 variants) then they should hold.

If the 991S is your weekend car then by all means it trumps the M2 in all categories. If its your daily and you need practicality then I feel the 991 is 40-50% over valued compared to the M2. I just sold my 2013 991S with 33,000kms and pocketed a $30k difference over the M2 which is brand new.
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      03-20-2016, 10:16 AM   #26
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Based on the OP very thorough analysis, if you're comfortable buying used I would definitely chose a 991 911 for this :

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgrinavi View Post
Driving:[/B]

I have not been in a car that I liked to drive better than any 911 I've driven in any conditions, in any place but bumper to bumper traffic. I have not driven an M2, but using the 235 experience I would rank it three steps below my GTS and 2 steps below the new 991.1 911S.

911 wins by a long shot


Tracking:

911s is sublime on the track, the M2 gets great reviews, but I can't imagine there's any comparison. I talked to a guy that had an M2 on track last weekend, he raved about it, but hasn't had a 911 on track to compare it to.

911 Wins here too.

Which would you pick?[/B]
I can easily understand why some one changing from a long list of owned P-cars or needing a more practical and very good value car would chose a M2, like some already argued.

I don't understand nevertheless (or rather, in the context, I quite do ) why someone looking for a driver's car, who could afford a 911 for what it is and really knows how to drive one would chose a M2.

I would bemused look forward for a McLaren/Pagani/etc. vs. M2 topic only to read the ''objective'' opinions of some of the M2 fanboys
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      03-20-2016, 10:23 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyaway
Based on the OP very thorough analysis, if you're comfortable buying used I would definitely chose a 991 911 for this :

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgrinavi View Post
Driving:[/B]

I have not been in a car that I liked to drive better than any 911 I've driven in any conditions, in any place but bumper to bumper traffic. I have not driven an M2, but using the 235 experience I would rank it three steps below my GTS and 2 steps below the new 991.1 911S.

911 wins by a long shot


Tracking:

911s is sublime on the track, the M2 gets great reviews, but I can't imagine there's any comparison. I talked to a guy that had an M2 on track last weekend, he raved about it, but hasn't had a 911 on track to compare it to.

911 Wins here too.

Which would you pick?[/B]
I can easily understand why some one changing from a long list of owned P-cars or needing a more practical and very good value car would chose a M2, like some already argued.

I don't understand nevertheless (or rather, in the context, I quite do ) why someone looking for a driver's car, who could afford a 911 for what it is and really knows how to drive one would chose a M2.

I would bemused look forward for a McLaren/Pagani/etc. vs. M2 topic only to read the ''objective'' opinions of some of the M2 fanboys

Except for the fact that there are many 911 owners that * also * own an 1M.


Once you start talking about being able to afford a 911 and buying an M2 you are generally talking about someone who is fairly wealthy and likely has multiple vehicles.

I bet more than a few 911 owners will also have an M2. I already know of a couple of people that plan to have a Cayman Gt4 and an M2.
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      03-20-2016, 10:31 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Except for the fact that there are many 911 owners that * also * own an 1M.


Once you start talking about being able to afford a 911 and buying an M2 you are generally talking about someone who is fairly wealthy and likely has multiple vehicles.

I bet more than a few 911 owners will also have an M2. I already know of a couple of people that plan to have a Cayman Gt4 and an M2.
Totally makes sense as I already mentioned and I would do the same thing But we were talking (most of the time hypothetical indeed for a good reason ) about choosing between the two, especially as a driver's car... Not being able/willing to afford a 911 should not count very much in an objective analysis...
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      03-20-2016, 11:19 AM   #29
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Like I said for tracking and absolute performance the 911 is the sheer winner.
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      03-20-2016, 11:54 AM   #30
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I can afford a (slightly used) 991 but for me as a trackday and driftday kind of guy(6-8 times per year) I prefer the FR layout of M cars(and having driven a handful old and new 911s also a 964RS...) I just like the FR layout better.

Topspeed/laptimes I know I know, but fun and balance cannot be measured in numbers AND I'd choose a Cayman GTS over a 'base' 991 anytime, let alone Cayman GT4. GT3(RS) is a different story.

Just my 2 € cents

And dont get me wrong, Porsche as a brand is ICONIC, the 911 just isn't my kind of car as a 'base' model...I almost bought a 997S in 2008 but chose the M3 E90 for its practicality(2 younger kids back then)

GT3RS bring it on!

So for me an M2 is absolutely 100 % the better trackcar vs a '991' because of its balance and layout...

Cheers
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      03-20-2016, 12:07 PM   #31
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For stowing Hockey gear, groceries, whatever...

997.2 TARGA 4S. That hatch is amazing and makes life easy. It's heavy, usually PDK and NOT a trackable car at all but for a person with your needs, perfect. And Rare.(ish)
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      03-20-2016, 12:27 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
991 looks SO incredibly out dated. M2 all the way.
I agree, subject to the condition that you mean "timeless" when you wrote "out dated".

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      03-20-2016, 12:59 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
http://www.autobild.de/artikel/bmw-m...t-8738517.html

German Autobild tested an MG manual M2 vs the new 991.2 Carrera(3.0 biturbo) PDK.

On Contidrom the Porsche was 2 sec faster (1:32 something)
So that seems a lot, and it is a lot, but in general the M2 can easily stay with the 991.

They find it THE bargain for the buck. Because the Porsche is almost twice as expensive. And the M2 weighs 80kgs more and it wasn't a DCT which could have shaved of one second probably(?)

Anyway, I'm not a normal 991 guy, GT3RS or something is fine thank you.
Having testdriven a 997S(quality etc) I did not find it great through the bends, there was that speedboat kind of understeer initially what is typical 911 behavior with nothing upfront and an engine in the back. I knew that(I als drove a handful of older 911s through the years)

The OP's car looks nice, but the car in that test in white, I don't like the profile sorry. I won't say it's outdated already. Then that should have been already when it was first constructed in '63 with that engine in a weird place j/k

And I know the traction and brakepressure benefits of that 'design' in racing.

No offence to the '911' in general, it's an icon for many.

So 80kgs more weight, >50k euros less expensive and a manual vs PDK...

I think the M2 did more than fine.

Cheers
Robin
+1

The M2 does a great job!
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      03-20-2016, 01:07 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
I can afford a (slightly used) 991 but for me as a trackday and driftday kind of guy(6-8 times per year) I prefer the FR layout of M cars(and having driven a handful old and new 911s also a 964RS...) I just like the FR layout better.

Topspeed/laptimes I know I know, but fun and balance cannot be measured in numbers AND I'd choose a Cayman GTS over a 'base' 991 anytime, let alone Cayman GT4. GT3(RS) is a different story.

Just my 2 € cents

And dont get me wrong, Porsche as a brand is ICONIC, the 911 just isn't my kind of car as a 'base' model...I almost bought a 997S in 2008 but chose the M3 E90 for its practicality(2 younger kids back then)

GT3RS bring it on!

So for me an M2 is absolutely 100 % the better trackcar vs a '991' because of its balance and layout...

Cheers
Robin

No question about Porsche being a great, i.c. top brand.

Yes I can afford a GT4, a GT3, also Ferrari if I wanted, but I do not, those cars can not be sane driven in my country.

Also bigger ain`t always better, more HP isn`t always better, more expensive is not always better. (most people however do not support those statements)

That is why I did choose the Cayman instead of a 991-911, that is why I chose the M2 instead the M4.
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      03-20-2016, 02:17 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
No question about Porsche being a great, i.c. top brand.

Yes I can afford a GT4, a GT3, also Ferrari if I wanted, but I do not, those cars can not be sane driven in my country.

Also bigger ain`t always better, more HP isn`t always better, more expensive is not always better. (most people however do not support those statements)

That is why I did choose the Cayman instead of a 991-911, that is why I chose the M2 instead the M4.
So there isn't a single GT4, GT3, Ferrari's in your country? There isn't any track available? Do you have any kind of travel interdiction abroad? Most people that can really afford a GT department Porsche or a Ferrari would at least own one before adding (or eventually switching again) to a BMW M car, furthermore having doubts about spending €7.000 on the most important characteristic of their future car:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
Well, is it worth to spend €7.000,-- more on a MT?

Yes, in my country, the Netherlands, an M2 comes standard with the M-DCT, and the 6MT is an option for €7K !!!

Of course due to taxes and CO2 emissions.

Yes., I have owned a 1M, with a superb 6MT, the M2 6MT has evolved trough the 1M and the M3-4 to the best BMW MT ever, so no doubts about the technical and fun aspects.

But is it worth another €7K, well, not IMHO, so I ordered the M2 with DCT, also I have driven the Cayman GTS with the fabulous PDK, the DCT will be no less in quality.
Let's not fall completely into derision, I'm sure you're a nice person and the M2 is without doubt a great car. For the money. And for guys like us, on the forums
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      03-20-2016, 02:33 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyaway View Post
So there isn't a single GT4, GT3, Ferrari's in your country? There isn't any track available? Do you have any kind of travel interdiction abroad? Most people that can really afford a GT department Porsche or a Ferrari would at least own one before adding (or eventually switching again) to a BMW M car, furthermore having doubts about spending €7.000 on the most important characteristic of their future car:




Let's not fall completely into derision, I'm sure you're a nice person and the M2 is without doubt a great car. For the money. And for guys like us, on the forums
I forgot to tell;


IMHO...............


FYI;
1 I`m not a track lover
2 The choice to change from DCT to 6MT I`ve explained already, the 7K ARE NO ISSUE TO ME
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      03-21-2016, 09:30 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P-Bass View Post
I'm in a similar quandary, except I do not currently own a 911. My 335 lease is up in August. I have a deposit down for a LBB, manual M2, but am still on the fence. My other 2 options are a 991/911 (2012+, manual PASM, Sport Chrono) or a new Camaro SS. I cant help it, I really like the new American Muscle cars, they've grown up (check out Car & Driver's comparo to the M4) and I think will be a blast to drive. The big question is after 20+ years of German cars, will I want to live with it for 3 years (I'd lease). With the low residual I'd buy the M2, and of course I'd buy the 911. I go back & forth on a daily basis. Maybe after driving the M2 some time in May, and Camaro SS, I'll be closer to a decision. The 911 is so damn seductive, always wanted one, but not sure of the practicality of it in NY/Long Island, crappy roads etc. It's driving me nuts!
I like the new Camaro too, but I can't get comfortable in it and it's just a tad large for my tastes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attuale View Post
To be honest I don't think comparing an M2 to a 911 should even be a realistic comparison.

For example, If could I afford a 911 I wouldn't even consider an M2.

I think too many people are expecting the M2 to be some god like car but it's not. Once you start comparing it to cars higher up in the order, it is always going to fall short.

But then, there's the price. And what it can do for the price. And that's why I bought one.
New M2 vs used 991/911 are about the same price and not a bad comparison from a power and size standpoint. I think the M2 is a more practical daily driver albeit not as sexy as the 911.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaswrath View Post
Though you've already outlined ruling it out, I still think the M4 is your best bet because of the ease and convenience of a larger coupe for your DD chores.
Too big and too much money for what you get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
I can afford a (slightly used) 991 but for me as a trackday and driftday kind of guy(6-8 times per year) I prefer the FR layout of M cars(and having driven a handful old and new 911s also a 964RS...) I just like the FR layout better.

Topspeed/laptimes I know I know, but fun and balance cannot be measured in numbers AND I'd choose a Cayman GTS over a 'base' 991 anytime, let alone Cayman GT4. GT3(RS) is a different story.

Just my 2 € cents

And dont get me wrong, Porsche as a brand is ICONIC, the 911 just isn't my kind of car as a 'base' model...I almost bought a 997S in 2008 but chose the M3 E90 for its practicality(2 younger kids back then)

GT3RS bring it on!

So for me an M2 is absolutely 100 % the better trackcar vs a '991' because of its balance and layout...

Cheers
Robin
Go drive a PDK 997.2S/GTS on a technical track, you will be awestruck. For that matter my buddy runs a 996 GT3 6 speed on track and it's just as nice, if not nicer, as my 997 GTS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clubsport View Post
For stowing Hockey gear, groceries, whatever...

997.2 TARGA 4S. That hatch is amazing and makes life easy. It's heavy, usually PDK and NOT a trackable car at all but for a person with your needs, perfect. And Rare.(ish)
I don't even open my sunroof and never took the top off my C6, I don't need 4wd and I already have a PDK 997.2 GTS, I would keep it if it were the three pedal version.

Last edited by sgrinavi; 03-21-2016 at 12:51 PM..
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      03-21-2016, 05:47 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Damn man, you might have lost your marbles finally. I know you love the M2 but this is crazy talk haha
+1

It looks....wait for it....like a 911. not outdated at all....

To the OP, the M2 is more of a value proposition - if you are looking at it in that light, it could be a good choice.

I would keep the 991, but that's just me.
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      03-21-2016, 06:11 PM   #39
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This is identical to my brother's car (Carmine Red 991 GTS, manual). It is a STUNNING car in person, especially in the sun when Carmine Red really pops. Following his 911 GTS in an LBB M2 will be like a Macy's parade in terms of the amount of attention these two cars will get, lol! (BTW, my brother does not have kids, so back seats and extra trunk space were not a primary concern).

My brother usually goes for more subdued colors to avoid attention, but I convinced him to get the Carmine Red. He loves it! If I had to choose an M2 or my brother's car (think it is a 2015)... I would 100% go with his car. But I am also excited to see what the M2 offers and love the way it looks as well. In fact, I am getting more fond of the M2's looks every new pic I see. The rear bumper would be my least favorite thing, but overall, the car especially with a few carbon parts and mods is going to be beautiful.

The comparison to an M2 is probably unfair since his GTS is superior in almost every conceivable performance measure and more than twice the price. Although since it is NA 6 cyl vs turbo 6 cyl, the M2 will have that lower end torque to contend with. I can only imagine how fast the 991.2 GTS will be with its turbo 6. That thing is going to be really fast...

This leads to what is great about the M2. Although we still are waiting for more real world experiences (not just by car magazines), the M2 should hopefully be that car many value-minded enthusiasts are looking for. Everyone is praising the price point, and if the M2 delivers (as we will find out soon as Bimmerpost owner reviews trickle in), then BMW has another gem on their hands.

One thing for sure, there are few cars on the road that garner the respect like an M BMW or an GTS Porsche.
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      03-21-2016, 08:07 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swilliams View Post
Guyz, the GT3 RS looks like a Pinto compared to the M2.
991 all the way, and dont make fun of my lava orange Pinto.
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      03-21-2016, 08:12 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Brindle101 View Post
991 all the way, and dont make fun of my lava orange Pinto.
My bad... ahem, Lava Orange Beetle. I'll give you $100 for it.
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      03-21-2016, 09:53 PM   #42
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Isn't 2012 911 GTS still a 997 model? GTS has to be the keeper if it was my choice.
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      03-22-2016, 08:04 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csbear View Post
This is identical to my brother's car (Carmine Red 991 GTS, manual). It is a STUNNING car in person, especially in the sun when Carmine Red really pops. Following his 911 GTS in an LBB M2 will be like a Macy's parade in terms of the amount of attention these two cars will get, lol! (BTW, my brother does not have kids, so back seats and extra trunk space were not a primary concern).

My brother usually goes for more subdued colors to avoid attention, but I convinced him to get the Carmine Red. He loves it! If I had to choose an M2 or my brother's car (think it is a 2015)... I would 100% go with his car. But I am also excited to see what the M2 offers and love the way it looks as well. In fact, I am getting more fond of the M2's looks every new pic I see. The rear bumper would be my least favorite thing, but overall, the car especially with a few carbon parts and mods is going to be beautiful.

The comparison to an M2 is probably unfair since his GTS is superior in almost every conceivable performance measure and more than twice the price. Although since it is NA 6 cyl vs turbo 6 cyl, the M2 will have that lower end torque to contend with. I can only imagine how fast the 991.2 GTS will be with its turbo 6. That thing is going to be really fast...

This leads to what is great about the M2. Although we still are waiting for more real world experiences (not just by car magazines), the M2 should hopefully be that car many value-minded enthusiasts are looking for. Everyone is praising the price point, and if the M2 delivers (as we will find out soon as Bimmerpost owner reviews trickle in), then BMW has another gem on their hands.

One thing for sure, there are few cars on the road that garner the respect like an M BMW or an GTS Porsche.
My 997.2 GTS gets tons of attention too, it's a beautiful thing, but I can't afford to keep it and pick up a sporty daily driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brindle101 View Post
991 all the way, and dont make fun of my lava orange Pinto.
You could have a whole fleet of orange pinto station wagons for the price of either car. Something to think about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by py0413 View Post
Isn't 2012 911 GTS still a 997 model? GTS has to be the keeper if it was my choice.
Ya, my GTS is a 997.2 - I would keep it if it had a third pedal, I'm just not a fan of the PDK for daily driving chores, the thing is a bitch to get in and out of with the gt2 style sport seats, it doesn't have any creature comfort options (I'm old and I like them) and, finally, damn thing is black on black which is very hard to keep looking good in Florida.
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      03-22-2016, 08:37 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by py0413 View Post
Isn't 2012 911 GTS still a 997 model? GTS has to be the keeper if it was my choice.
2012 had both 997 and the introduction of 991 models, old + new.
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