BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M2 Forum > Regional Forums > USA - California > Got a ticket with M performance exhaust

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-11-2020, 11:35 AM   #23
Killed by Death
Brigadier General
Killed by Death's Avatar
12146
Rep
3,457
Posts

Drives: '23 X3 M40i
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
Not sure if you are familiar with the area, but honestly this is kind of what you expect in coastal OC.

Still the guy that took the cake for me was when I was pulled over for no front license plate. The problem? I was in BMW of Encinitas' loaner car. Was the only time I ever got into a loud verbal argument with an officer. Despite that giant "BMW OF ENCINITAS LOANER CAR" banner covering the rear window he thought the car belonged to me. The guy completely missed the banner. We spent almost 3 minutes arguing about who owned the car as if I would add that giant banner to my own car. I couldn't produce the registration because it wasn't my car, although later I found it in the trunk by the battery and tool kit. All this happened off the PCH in OC as well. No ticket in the end, but that is one I would have shown up to in court, with gusto.
I'm sure everyone has one or two horror stories to tell because I've worked with my share of idiots. But damn, there seems to be no common sense out there. Dealers in NC provide a rental agreement with loaners which serves as a temporary registration. Or simply run the tag, it's not that hard.
We don't have front plates either
Appreciate 2
Saintjah121.50
pz6193275.50
      08-11-2020, 11:42 AM   #24
CTSean
First Lieutenant
323
Rep
392
Posts

Drives: LCI BSM MT M2
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWalks View Post
Then he told me to put it back in sport+ and rev to 3k so he could take a measurement, and I once again complied. My thought process this whole time was just to do as he said so he could give me my warning. As you said there are a lot of stock cars out there that are above 95 dB limit, and I had no reason to believe my car was illegal since there is an "M Performance" logo on the muffler.
How far away was he when he tested it? According to this

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...5.&article=2.5.

(a) The Department of Motor Vehicles shall not register on a dealer’s report of sale a new motor vehicle, except an off-highway motor vehicle subject to identification as provided in Division 16.5 (commencing with Section 38000), which produces a maximum noise exceeding the applicable noise limit at a distance of 50 feet from the centerline of travel under test procedures established by the Department of the California Highway Patrol.

Seems like this is also a rule intended to be applicable to the sale of such vehicles. I don't buy for a second that cars with factory exhaust modes are blanket illegal in CA when so many modern sports cars have them.
Appreciate 1
      08-11-2020, 05:14 PM   #25
ChrisWalks
New Member
13
Rep
17
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: May 2020
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSean View Post
How far away was he when he tested it? According to this

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...5.&article=2.5.

(a) The Department of Motor Vehicles shall not register on a dealer’s report of sale a new motor vehicle, except an off-highway motor vehicle subject to identification as provided in Division 16.5 (commencing with Section 38000), which produces a maximum noise exceeding the applicable noise limit at a distance of 50 feet from the centerline of travel under test procedures established by the Department of the California Highway Patrol.

Seems like this is also a rule intended to be applicable to the sale of such vehicles. I don't buy for a second that cars with factory exhaust modes are blanket illegal in CA when so many modern sports cars have them.
He was basically right behind the car. I don't understand this though. Here it says 50 feet, but every youtube video I've seen says it should be 20 inches away from the exhaust tip. Either way he didn't use a tape measure so I'll also argue that his test is flawed since he just eye balled the distance, and he was was not at a 45 degree angle either.

Donut Media testing method at 4:17

Appreciate 1
Saintjah121.50
      08-12-2020, 06:40 AM   #26
CTSean
First Lieutenant
323
Rep
392
Posts

Drives: LCI BSM MT M2
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWalks View Post
He was basically right behind the car. I don't understand this though. Here it says 50 feet, but every youtube video I've seen says it should be 20 inches away from the exhaust tip. Either way he didn't use a tape measure so I'll also argue that his test is flawed since he just eye balled the distance, and he was was not at a 45 degree angle either.

Donut Media testing method at 4:17

I read more after I replied and found the same thing, so no idea what's actually right. Still seems very unlikely that any manufacturer that makes a car with exhaust modes is violating CA law by selling there. That would mean that Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Aston Martins, Audis, BMW, Mercedes, even Fords, Chevys and Dodges all make cars that cannot be sold in CA. It's not that hard to find a Ford GT350 or GT500 for sale as a CA car dealer.
Appreciate 0
      08-12-2020, 08:17 AM   #27
Killed by Death
Brigadier General
Killed by Death's Avatar
12146
Rep
3,457
Posts

Drives: '23 X3 M40i
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSean View Post
I read more after I replied and found the same thing, so no idea what's actually right. Still seems very unlikely that any manufacturer that makes a car with exhaust modes is violating CA law by selling there. That would mean that Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Aston Martins, Audis, BMW, Mercedes, even Fords, Chevys and Dodges all make cars that cannot be sold in CA. It's not that hard to find a Ford GT350 or GT500 for sale as a CA car dealer.
Wondering if the OP can chime back in? Is the MPE listed on the build sheet, invoice or sticker as OEM equipment?

The OP was ticketed for 27151(a) where the key word is "Modify". IMHO if the OP purchased the M2 and drove it off the lot w/ MPE already installed he should be good. If, for example, OP took it back later and had the original muffler replaced the state could have a WEAK case. Simply pushing a button that also engages other vehicle features is not "Modifying" a vehicle.

Unfortunately, after watching the video, OP might be better off paying the fine and moving on if it is not too expensive. Sounds like CA fix it tickets still require payment of the fine? A day in court to get a not Quilty judgement would waste the OP's time. And time is money, that is what the state is hoping for.

The OP might also consider having his vehicle tested to prove compliance. Never know, he might run into "One Time" again.

And yes, I can call a rookie "One Time" or anything else. I've earned it!!!

Lastly, is there not a CA lawyer in the house with a M2? Maybe the OP could repost in the M3/M4 group which is much larger. Might get more info there
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      08-12-2020, 10:23 AM   #28
Happy Motoring
Lieutenant
Happy Motoring's Avatar
United_States
474
Rep
449
Posts

Drives: OG M2
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2017 BMW M2  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWalks View Post
he just said I'm breaking the law and its my responsibility to know the law.
Said the LAW ENFORCEMENT officer
Appreciate 1
      08-12-2020, 11:34 AM   #29
ChrisWalks
New Member
13
Rep
17
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: May 2020
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killed by Death View Post
Wondering if the OP can chime back in? Is the MPE listed on the build sheet, invoice or sticker as OEM equipment?

The OP was ticketed for 27151(a) where the key word is "Modify". IMHO if the OP purchased the M2 and drove it off the lot w/ MPE already installed he should be good. If, for example, OP took it back later and had the original muffler replaced the state could have a WEAK case. Simply pushing a button that also engages other vehicle features is not "Modifying" a vehicle.

Unfortunately, after watching the video, OP might be better off paying the fine and moving on if it is not too expensive. Sounds like CA fix it tickets still require payment of the fine? A day in court to get a not Quilty judgement would waste the OP's time. And time is money, that is what the state is hoping for.

The OP might also consider having his vehicle tested to prove compliance. Never know, he might run into "One Time" again.

And yes, I can call a rookie "One Time" or anything else. I've earned it!!!

Lastly, is there not a CA lawyer in the house with a M2? Maybe the OP could repost in the M3/M4 group which is much larger. Might get more info there
Unfortunately, I installed the exhaust after purchase so it is not on any window sticker. I just figured if it can come from the dealer with it installed it should be perfectly fine for me to install it too.

I have already contacted BMW to see if they can give me any legal certification which says that the exhaust is legal in California, but I am still waiting to hear back from them. If/When I get that, I want to go to my local dealership and see if I can have them certify my car as stock or something they would resell. I figure if I can produce those two documents I should hopefully be good.

I'm not very keen on going to a state ref after I read this thread.
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1617329
Appreciate 1
      08-12-2020, 12:46 PM   #30
Killed by Death
Brigadier General
Killed by Death's Avatar
12146
Rep
3,457
Posts

Drives: '23 X3 M40i
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWalks View Post
Unfortunately, I installed the exhaust after purchase so it is not on any window sticker. I just figured if it can come from the dealer with it installed it should be perfectly fine for me to install it too.

I have already contacted BMW to see if they can give me any legal certification which says that the exhaust is legal in California, but I am still waiting to hear back from them. If/When I get that, I want to go to my local dealership and see if I can have them certify my car as stock or something they would resell. I figure if I can produce those two documents I should hopefully be good.

I'm not very keen on going to a state ref after I read this thread.
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1617329
I don't see how any decent sports car can register under 95db at 3/4 maximum rpm. This is just a state cash cow!!!!!!! Wishing you good luck OP!!!!!!!!
Appreciate 0
      08-12-2020, 11:03 PM   #31
SnohoRaptor
First Lieutenant
SnohoRaptor's Avatar
United_States
535
Rep
364
Posts

Drives: 2011 AW E92 ZCP 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Snohomish, WA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2021 Toyota Tacoma  [0.00]
2020 BMW X5  [9.00]
2020 Subaru WRX  [0.00]
2019 Ford Raptor  [0.00]
2011 BMW M3  [0.00]
These tickets are the same mandatory citation as cell phone use was when enacted. Zero tolerance and pressure to write because of a socialist government's spending problem.

They may have written/intended for straight piped exhaust idiots, but then the bar gets set unreasonably low to increase revenue.

All creating an unfortunate circumstance for car enthusiasts. Glad I don't live in CA.

But WA sucks too.
__________________
AW 2011 E92 ZCP 6MT single hump w/speed cloth.
Alpine Stage 2 | Apex Manufacturing X-Pipe |
Corsa | BayOptiks | Haimus Racing CF Plenum

MW 2020 G05 X5 with delicious coffee interior
Appreciate 1
      08-13-2020, 08:15 PM   #32
Killed by Death
Brigadier General
Killed by Death's Avatar
12146
Rep
3,457
Posts

Drives: '23 X3 M40i
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Totally forgot about a great app (dB Meter) which I use to measure decibels when playing with my A/V equipment. Seems pretty accurate and could help others wondering about their exhaust. Found it in the Apple App Store.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2020, 05:49 PM   #33
flyboy385
Enlisted Member
United_States
69
Rep
45
Posts

Drives: '18 MG M2 6MT
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Irvine, CA

iTrader: (0)

For what it's worth, I had the exact same issue and got pulled over with only an M Performance Exhaust in Laguna Beach as well. I insisted to the officer that the exhaust comes on the car new from the dealer and is a factory BMW part with no modifications. He wasn't having any of it and told me my car was supposed to be as loud as "any other car" as a Nissan Rouge drove by while we were talking. Ok buddy whatever. I asked him what loudness he measured my exhaust at, and he admitted that he didn't measure mine with any kind of decibel meter, but he did record it on his bodycam and his discretion of the exhaust being too loud was enough to write me the ticket. Alright yep, see you in court where we'll waste both our time.

So I contested the ticket in court, and I won. I brought with me several documents: A window sticker from another M2 showing that it is an option that dealers are selling brand new cars with, the operation/installation manual that came with the exhaust stating that the closed valve mode is legal for road use, as well as a letter from a local mechanic stating that the exhaust was a factory BMW part and was in good condition and had no leaks.

Judge was pretty quick to dismiss it after I brought that mound of paperwork vs. the officer's bodycam footage

Funny thing is: Before the court date I also tried to bring it to a state referee to try and get that approval to be the end-all-be-all evidence that it was legal. Turns out it didn't pass! The representative refused to tell me the reading but said it was over the legal limit even with the valves closed. It's all behind me now, but I still carry the court judgement in my favor and all relevant documents in my car at all times in case I get pulled over for it again!
Appreciate 4
Altra265.50
pz6193275.50
ried791.50
west184.00
      08-17-2020, 05:56 PM   #34
Altra
First Lieutenant
266
Rep
307
Posts

Drives: 2016 AW M2
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Orange County

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy385 View Post
....

So I contested the ticket in court, and I won. I brought with me several documents: A window sticker from another M2 showing that it is an option that dealers are selling brand new cars with, the operation/installation manual that came with the exhaust stating that the closed valve mode is legal for road use, as well as a letter from a local mechanic stating that the exhaust was a factory BMW part and was in good condition and had no leaks.

Judge was pretty quick to dismiss it after I brought that mound of paperwork vs. the officer's bodycam footage

...
Yess!! Stick it to the man!
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2020, 06:30 PM   #35
CTSean
First Lieutenant
323
Rep
392
Posts

Drives: LCI BSM MT M2
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy385 View Post
For what it's worth, I had the exact same issue and got pulled over with only an M Performance Exhaust in Laguna Beach as well. I insisted to the officer that the exhaust comes on the car new from the dealer and is a factory BMW part with no modifications. He wasn't having any of it and told me my car was supposed to be as loud as "any other car" as a Nissan Rouge drove by while we were talking. Ok buddy whatever. I asked him what loudness he measured my exhaust at, and he admitted that he didn't measure mine with any kind of decibel meter, but he did record it on his bodycam and his discretion of the exhaust being too loud was enough to write me the ticket. Alright yep, see you in court where we'll waste both our time.

So I contested the ticket in court, and I won. I brought with me several documents: A window sticker from another M2 showing that it is an option that dealers are selling brand new cars with, the operation/installation manual that came with the exhaust stating that the closed valve mode is legal for road use, as well as a letter from a local mechanic stating that the exhaust was a factory BMW part and was in good condition and had no leaks.

Judge was pretty quick to dismiss it after I brought that mound of paperwork vs. the officer's bodycam footage
Seems like, at least in theory, your ticket should be precedent to throw out any other factory M performance exhaust on an M2.
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2020, 09:06 PM   #36
ChrisWalks
New Member
13
Rep
17
Posts

Drives: M2C
Join Date: May 2020
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy385 View Post
For what it's worth, I had the exact same issue and got pulled over with only an M Performance Exhaust in Laguna Beach as well. I insisted to the officer that the exhaust comes on the car new from the dealer and is a factory BMW part with no modifications. He wasn't having any of it and told me my car was supposed to be as loud as "any other car" as a Nissan Rouge drove by while we were talking. Ok buddy whatever. I asked him what loudness he measured my exhaust at, and he admitted that he didn't measure mine with any kind of decibel meter, but he did record it on his bodycam and his discretion of the exhaust being too loud was enough to write me the ticket. Alright yep, see you in court where we'll waste both our time.

So I contested the ticket in court, and I won. I brought with me several documents: A window sticker from another M2 showing that it is an option that dealers are selling brand new cars with, the operation/installation manual that came with the exhaust stating that the closed valve mode is legal for road use, as well as a letter from a local mechanic stating that the exhaust was a factory BMW part and was in good condition and had no leaks.

Judge was pretty quick to dismiss it after I brought that mound of paperwork vs. the officer's bodycam footage

Funny thing is: Before the court date I also tried to bring it to a state referee to try and get that approval to be the end-all-be-all evidence that it was legal. Turns out it didn't pass! The representative refused to tell me the reading but said it was over the legal limit even with the valves closed. It's all behind me now, but I still carry the court judgement in my favor and all relevant documents in my car at all times in case I get pulled over for it again!
Lmao fucking Laguna Beach man. I wonder if it was the same cop too. I plan to bring all the same documents you got minus the state ref (thanks for the heads up on their BS). I'm also trying to get BMW to send me some documents showing that the exhaust is CARB compliant, but they are slow to find anything.

Once this is all over, assuming I win in court I'll be sure to keep all documents related to the exhaust in my car as I rev my car through Laguna Beach freely.
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2020, 09:18 PM   #37
VisualEcho
Banned
VisualEcho's Avatar
United_States
6626
Rep
4,145
Posts

Drives: '18 M2 6MT
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [10.00]
Who would even live in a state where such things were an issue? I mean, really? I'm just still in awe of all of this. I saw a video the other day of a detailer going over waterless wash in California and was like, WTactualF? You can't even use water???

Sorry man, but soooo happy with Missouri right now. I don't even need a catalyst, and can run any exhaust I like at any DB...and use as much damn water as I like washing my car. Just wow.
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2020, 09:51 PM   #38
pz619
Brigadier General
3276
Rep
3,254
Posts

Drives: F87 M2C 6MT, Tesla 3
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Who would even live in a state where such things were an issue? I mean, really? I'm just still in awe of all of this. I saw a video the other day of a detailer going over waterless wash in California and was like, WTactualF? You can't even use water???

Sorry man, but soooo happy with Missouri right now. I don't even need a catalyst, and can run any exhaust I like at any DB...and use as much damn water as I like washing my car. Just wow.
Cool story.
Appreciate 1
      08-23-2020, 02:40 PM   #39
akkando
Major General
akkando's Avatar
5860
Rep
6,631
Posts

Drives: 17 M2 DCT LBB,11 e90 M3 ZCP IB
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Who would even live in a state where such things were an issue? I mean, really? I'm just still in awe of all of this. I saw a video the other day of a detailer going over waterless wash in California and was like, WTactualF? You can't even use water???

Sorry man, but soooo happy with Missouri right now. I don't even need a catalyst, and can run any exhaust I like at any DB...and use as much damn water as I like washing my car. Just wow.
on the flip side I'm not sure I want to live anywhere that is totally cool with people running catless.
Appreciate 4
pz6193275.50
ried791.50
chris7197273.00
      08-23-2020, 02:46 PM   #40
VisualEcho
Banned
VisualEcho's Avatar
United_States
6626
Rep
4,145
Posts

Drives: '18 M2 6MT
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
on the flip side I'm not sure I want to live anywhere that is totally cool with people running catless.
True, but there are so few of us. You get a car-state like Cali and make it cat-less and you've got 2 weeks before global warming.
Appreciate 0
      08-23-2020, 10:27 PM   #41
pz619
Brigadier General
3276
Rep
3,254
Posts

Drives: F87 M2C 6MT, Tesla 3
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
on the flip side I'm not sure I want to live anywhere that is totally cool with people running catless.
I think everywhere should be allowed to run catless, if they want. Under the condition that 50% of the exhaust is re-routed into the cabin.
Appreciate 5
ried791.50
akkando5860.00
chris7197273.00
bbhbba1.50
      09-29-2020, 03:28 PM   #42
CalAcacian
Lieutenant
537
Rep
560
Posts

Drives: 2018 M2
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Orange County, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
I think everywhere should be allowed to run catless, if they want. Under the condition that 50% of the exhaust is re-routed into the cabin.
Now there's a proposal I like.
Appreciate 0
      03-31-2022, 12:27 AM   #43
MarlboroM2C
Second Lieutenant
MarlboroM2C's Avatar
United_States
237
Rep
219
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
  [10.00]
2021 BMW  [10.00]
The edict from liberal interim governor K Hochul. Car enthusiasm is obviously not in their playbook.
__________________
BMWCCA M Chapter & NJ chapter
'21 BMW M2C BSM 6MT MDrivers Pkg
Appreciate 1
west184.00
      03-31-2022, 04:10 PM   #44
west1
Private First Class
United_States
84
Rep
148
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NorCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarlboroM2C View Post
The edict from liberal interim governor K Hochul. Car enthusiasm is obviously not in their playbook.
makes me wonder if putin knows the car nazis are here in the usa?
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:40 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST