[shivaswrath]

Well I guess brand dilution won't be an issue, no one will be able to afford these maintenance whores soon!

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by ah3nyc

Wait until they start to pay out millions back. How will the balance sheet look then?? Someone must have been hired recently in Bmwusa and made a stupid decision. We have been giving them thousands every time we leased to use as they please. Free money. The amount of interesting mf won't makeup lose in end of people switching brands. C43 or 63 looks tempting now!!

C63s sedans lease for around 1200-1400 a month min drive off 10k a year. A comparable M3 is 200-300 a month less without MSD's.

AMG's are notorious for horrible leases, go to mbworld and do some research.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by ah3nyc

I know Porsche leases are 2x usually what BMW would. Financially to buy a new BMW doesn't make sense you'll lose 50% in 36 months. Therefore the numbers to buy cpo Porsche makes more sense as p cars hold don't depreciate at the rate bmws do.

Yes financially I don't think it will increase bmw dealer profits. If leases creep up in price why would someone go for a car that is same price as say other manufacturers say even Infiniti , Lexus, Mercedes, Audi all who offer msd. Bmw sales increased in past because they had offers that beat out brands like Toyota, Honda for leases. Let alone luxury car brands. I love bmw but they really aren't being wise. Lowering ED discount, eliminating certain maintenance coverages, not doing ude codes, not offering loyalty often. They have diluted the brand, made the cars way too soft and from business perspective they will pay the price. Cost conscious buyers will not lease from them again.

I've got more bad news for you, p cars depreciate equally badly when you compare the same (12k-15k per year) mileage use vs a bmw.

(a 3 year old cayenne gts with 30k miles 70-80k vs 110-120k new)

Go look at high mileage cayennes and 911's on cars.com and then see how long it takes to sell them. P cars hold value on certain models (ex. low optioned macans, 911 GTS/GT3) and only at low mileage.

in regards to bmw marketing- I would not change a thing, offer higher incentives on sedans sitting on lots and cut incentives that are across the board as x models and new models are selling like hot cakes. Look at the larger picture, bmw is doing fine, they having record years and the highest volume ever worldwide.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by ah3nyc

I wonder if bmw will regret this once they have to payback millions to all of use msd customers and on top of that lose many more potential customers used to leasing with msd!! Bmw leases are no more competitive. Buying that Porsche instead finally has become reality for someone like me.

Till you look at Porsche residuals: 63% on a C2 w/ 5K miles/ann to 36mo.

[bandwagn]

From a business standpoint it makes sense - fundamentally, the purpose of MSD was to protect against credit losses - but the very people who can afford to do MSD are the least likely to default.

So, in an era of raising rates, you target the low hanging fruit...

The people who are familiar with MSD are familiar with the brand - take a risk and keep the loyalists (and make a little more profit in the meantime).

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I've got more bad news for you, p cars depreciate equally badly when you compare the same (12k-15k per year) mileage use vs a bmw.

(a 3 year old cayenne gts with 30k miles 70-80k vs 110-120k new)

Go look at high mileage cayennes and 911's on cars.com and then see how long it takes to sell them. P cars hold value on certain models (ex. low optioned macans, 911 GTS/GT3) and only at low mileage.

in regards to bmw marketing- I would not change a thing, offer higher incentives on sedans sitting on lots and cut incentives that are across the board as x models and new models are selling like hot cakes. Look at the larger picture, bmw is doing fine, they having record years and the highest volume ever worldwide.

Largely agree here- there's a clear supply glut forming (new car sales are slowing meaningfully). BMW is anticipating that prices (new and used) will come down- these residuals and the need to capture more of the mf are the result.

[Kung Fu English]

Originally Posted by jxr006

But we are giving BMW an interest free loan for 4000-7000 bucks.

Tesla would kill for that position.

It's not really an interest free loan. My 5600 msd saved me 2k in interest rates that's over 33% return. I don't think BMW is making 33% on my MSDs. Adding everyone's together makes the money more but doesn't change the % though.

It sucks for the consumer because msd were awesome. But I get it from BMW standpoint.

Not sure what I'll do when it comes time for the next car or lease turn in.

[dkhm3]

Here are some lease "deals" for the MB Ignorant:

C43 (posted 10/13/16)


link: https://mbworld.org/forums/c450-c43-...eals-here.html

c63s (posted 2/19/17)
"c63s coupe, $85k sticker, 4% discount

10k miles/year

$1265/month with taxes paid up front

This is with MSD (multiple security deposits) of $12k up front, this is returned at lease's end. Without MSD the monthly would be about $100 more per month"

link: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-c63s-...ts-c63s-2.html

[doug_999]

Been talking to my dealer about what is going on. Says he has a guy who wants a 440 and he can't get it until August! Says you want an SUV? No biggie - want a car, not a priority for BMW. They have given up on being #1 in sales and want to focus on being #1 in profit. I think you are going to see more changes like this coming up.

I personally feel that if they don't change their priority on steering feel*, then none of us are really going to be buying or leasing BMWs anymore - so who cares what they charge!

*they have been quoted as saying their customers do not want or appreciate steering feel (or feedback) and so they are dialing that out of cars. Of course I can't find that quote right now

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Been talking to my dealer about what is going on. Says he has a guy who wants a 440 and he can't get it until August! Says you want an SUV? No biggie - want a car, not a priority for BMW. They have given up on being #1 in sales and want to focus on being #1 in profit. I think you are going to see more changes like this coming up.

I personally feel that if they don't change their priority on steering feel*, then none of us are really going to be buying or leasing BMWs anymore - so who cares what they charge!

*they have been quoted as saying their customers do not want or appreciate steering feel (or feedback) and so they are dialing that out of cars. Of course I can't find that quote right now

Here you go:

http://blog.caranddriver.com/steer-m...steering-feel/

"So the strongest demand we heard was, ‘Please reduce the steering effort.’ They seem to want more isolation.”

[jd_perspective]

wow that really sucks... i guess i'll be getting a fat check from BMW though when my lease is up next March. It saved me so much money it was crazy!

When I bought my F36, I maxed out my MSD's and I used a Drive Event $1000 rebate. I haven't seen any of those in a while either... Next lease is going to be wicked expensive and I am already at my person maximum that I want to spend on a lease... shit... and that X2 is looking sexy

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by ah3nyc

I wonder if bmw will regret this once they have to payback millions to all of use msd customers and on top of that lose many more potential customers used to leasing with msd!! Bmw leases are no more competitive. Buying that Porsche instead finally has become reality for someone like me.

Originally Posted by ah3nyc

I would just buy CPO Porsche honestly. No point to pay more to lease a BMW at that point. I know Porsches are more money. However rather than attack me. People should petition BMW.

it's easier to simply tell " the boy who cried Porsche." .. what time it is..

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by exl_ent_v6

wow that really sucks... i guess i'll be getting a fat check from BMW though when my lease is up next March. It saved me so much money it was crazy!

When I bought my F36, I maxed out my MSD's and I used a Drive Event $1000 rebate. I haven't seen any of those in a while either... Next lease is going to be wicked expensive and I am already at my person maximum that I want to spend on a lease... shit... and that X2 is looking sexy

the ultimate drive event has already been announced for 2017.. . it did not occur in 2016 because BMW focused on advertising at the Olympics..

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...&highlight=UDE

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Been talking to my dealer about what is going on. Says he has a guy who wants a 440 and he can't get it until August! Says you want an SUV? No biggie - want a car, not a priority for BMW. They have given up on being #1 in sales and want to focus on being #1 in profit. I think you are going to see more changes like this coming up.

I personally feel that if they don't change their priority on steering feel*, then none of us are really going to be buying or leasing BMWs anymore - so who cares what they charge!

*they have been quoted as saying their customers do not want or appreciate steering feel (or feedback) and so they are dialing that out of cars. Of course I can't find that quote right now

it's very easy to give up .. once you have already lost the fight.. ha!

Actually.. this isn't a big surprise to me at all.

The aggressive lease programs and the all out battle by BMW to retain the luxury company segment (3/4 series) has caused BMW to make some very bad decisions..

1- splitting the 3 series into 3 and 4 series models rather than slotting in a 4 series model in between the 3 and 5 series.
2- refusal to produce a 2 series sedan so as not to cannibalize 3/4 series sales
3- erosion of the 3 series price point for all models due to extreme discounts and lease discounts
4- addition of additional low end models (320/420) , to attempt to attract customers with a lower price of entry.
5- loss in profit due to aggressive lease discounts
6- glut of used cars now available due to aggressive " pull ahead" programs encouraging buyers to re-lease again early

So..... after all this... a movement towards fewer sales with higher profit per sale certainly makes sense...

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

Well I guess brand dilution won't be an issue, no one will be able to afford these maintenance whores soon!

No matter what the product.... having it continually " ON SALE" for months on end leads consumers to believe that the sale price Is the actual price.

Guess what folks... BMW is not going to give away it's cars with super cheap leasing options anymore.... just like how phone companies have stopped selling phones for $199 in recent years.. ... ( The problem with discounting cel phones to $199 is that no one really appreciated the fact that the $699 phone was being discounted $500 for the activation of a contract. )

[Sedan_Clan]

I'll wait and see how many people who are threatening to go elsewhere (...for a direct BMW competitor) actually do it.

[135Pats]

C43s look more and more attractive by the day...is what it is I suppose.

[bailyhill]

One thing this will do is make CPO'ing your existing Lease much more attractive. Particularly those of us who opted for Diesel X3, which seems somewhat in doubt going forward. I have $2500 tied up in the hitch.

I just may be keeping my "16 X3d" for another 3 years past the lease.

Bailyhill

PS: This is probably just what BMW wants to have happen.

Gary

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

C43s look more and more attractive by the day...is what it is I suppose.

Did you see my c43 lease ? for a 150 more a month you can get an decently optioned M3.

[positiveions]

Time to jump ships: Mercedes Benz

[SeanWRT]

Someday people will complain for not getting a BMW for free.

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Here you go:

http://blog.caranddriver.com/steer-m...steering-feel/

"So the strongest demand we heard was, ‘Please reduce the steering effort.’ They seem to want more isolation.”

Exactly. They're giving up on even pretending to care about steering feedback.

[NOVA99]

Originally Posted by positiveions

Time to jump ships: Mercedes Benz

MB Leases across the product line are awful compared to BMW. High MF and lower Residuals. Any MB with a V8 is really bad. Ask the MB dealer and go see for yourself. A MB dealer will straight up tell you they cannot compete with BMW lease payments in an apple to apple comparison...MSD or not. As an earlier poster mentioned go visit MBWorld as another reference point.