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      07-05-2019, 12:28 PM   #1
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TTE550 vs PS2

Anyone have experience with both of these turbos? I'm looking at both and am torn. They both seem to make roughly the same power and dyno plots look similar. I can't find compressor maps for either.

If you had to pick one which would you choose and why? Keep in mind this is for a street car.
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      07-07-2019, 12:06 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natek View Post
Anyone have experience with both of these turbos? I'm looking at both and am torn. They both seem to make roughly the same power and dyno plots look similar. I can't find compressor maps for either.

If you had to pick one which would you choose and why? Keep in mind this is for a street car.
I'm interested in this as well. I'm not at the point to go for an upgraded turbo, but it's something I'll be considering a few months from now, and I'm considering both of these options.

I believe SeanWRT has the TTE550, and has knowledge of the PS2 from other vehicles so he might be able to shed some light on the differences.

My understanding is that PS2 is significantly cheaper because they can handle core exchange in the US, whereas other hybrid vendors either don't support a core deposit, and / or aren't US based which slows things down a lot.

The other thing that puts me off about going PS2, is that I keep hearing rumours of different versions of PS2. Is there a PS2+ for the M2? How many fins does it have, is a titanium impeller etc. I wish they'd publish version numbers and details if they are changing the specs like that.
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      07-07-2019, 02:35 AM   #3
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in Europe only TTE550
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      07-07-2019, 10:15 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natek View Post
Anyone have experience with both of these turbos? I'm looking at both and am torn. They both seem to make roughly the same power and dyno plots look similar. I can't find compressor maps for either.

If you had to pick one which would you choose and why? Keep in mind this is for a street car.
I'm interested in this as well. I'm not at the point to go for an upgraded turbo, but it's something I'll be considering a few months from now, and I'm considering both of these options.

I believe SeanWRT has the TTE550, and has knowledge of the PS2 from other vehicles so he might be able to shed some light on the differences.

My understanding is that PS2 is significantly cheaper because they can handle core exchange in the US, whereas other hybrid vendors either don't support a core deposit, and / or aren't US based which slows things down a lot.

The other thing that puts me off about going PS2, is that I keep hearing rumours of different versions of PS2. Is there a PS2+ for the M2? How many fins does it have, is a titanium impeller etc. I wish they'd publish version numbers and details if they are changing the specs like that.
Mine is a G Power, not TTE550, although they seem to have similar capacity.

PS2 is physically bigger and is the only proven hybrid turbo that supports 22+psi (WMI and fueling are also required), or at least holds up that kind of boost for a short while.

Also very obvious with the PS2 is the turbo lag. If you live in the city downtown, it's quite annoying as you'll be feeling it most of time bumper to bumper traffic. The car feels sluggish.

I'd set up a goal first and decide which turbo to do.
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      07-07-2019, 12:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natek View Post
Anyone have experience with both of these turbos? I'm looking at both and am torn. They both seem to make roughly the same power and dyno plots look similar. I can't find compressor maps for either.

If you had to pick one which would you choose and why? Keep in mind this is for a street car.
I'm interested in this as well. I'm not at the point to go for an upgraded turbo, but it's something I'll be considering a few months from now, and I'm considering both of these options.

I believe SeanWRT has the TTE550, and has knowledge of the PS2 from other vehicles so he might be able to shed some light on the differences.

My understanding is that PS2 is significantly cheaper because they can handle core exchange in the US, whereas other hybrid vendors either don't support a core deposit, and / or aren't US based which slows things down a lot.

The other thing that puts me off about going PS2, is that I keep hearing rumours of different versions of PS2. Is there a PS2+ for the M2? How many fins does it have, is a titanium impeller etc. I wish they'd publish version numbers and details if they are changing the specs like that.
Mine is a G Power, not TTE550, although they seem to have similar capacity.

PS2 is physically bigger and is the only proven hybrid turbo that supports 22+psi (WMI and fueling are also required), or at least holds up that kind of boost for a short while.

Also very obvious with the PS2 is the turbo lag. If you live in the city downtown, it's quite annoying as you'll be feeling it most of time bumper to bumper traffic. The car feels sluggish.

I'd set up a goal first and decide which turbo to do.
Sean, as always your insight is spot on. The lag w the PS2 is exactly why I'm hesitant about it. II do a fair bit of casual city driving. The TTE seems like it would split the difference between stock and PS2 in terms of spool but it's impossible to find compressor maps for either.

Ultimately, the goal is as much top end power as is possible without sacrificing daily drivability in traffic. The car is already FBO w a Dinan turbo and XDI hpfp so a bugger turbo would somewhat plug and play. My thought being that because I'm limited to 91 octane and do not want to deal with meth injection, a larger turbo at the same PSI I'm currently tuned to(approx 18psi) would flow more air and result with a slightly cooler AIT.

My worry w the TTE is that they're in Germany and if I need support for whatever reason it's going to be a huge pain. Plus, if I install it only to find that the lag is similar to the PS2 then it would make more sense just to go the Pure route
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      07-07-2019, 01:35 PM   #6
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You have Dinan turbo with xdi and want more?? Just curious what you're putting down now and how much more you're looking for.
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      07-07-2019, 06:18 PM   #7
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OP, if you're already octane limited, you won't be gaining much going from Dinan turbo to a STG2 hybrid. I doubt you can do 18psi reliably on 91 whatever turbo you're on, unless it's very cold where you live.
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      07-07-2019, 07:15 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Happy Motoring View Post
You have Dinan turbo with xdi and want more?? Just curious what you're putting down now and how much more you're looking for.
370whp on a dynapack known as "the heartbreaker" I suspect on a another dyno I would make a good 20-30hp more but these numbers are irrelevant. I will make some Dragy runs soon. That will really tell how much power is being made. Ultimately I would love if the car could run mid 11's in the 1/4 mile. I highly doubt it has that type of speed in it's current configuration.

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      07-08-2019, 10:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Mine is a G Power, not TTE550, although they seem to have similar capacity.

PS2 is physically bigger and is the only proven hybrid turbo that supports 22+psi (WMI and fueling are also required), or at least holds up that kind of boost for a short while.

Also very obvious with the PS2 is the turbo lag. If you live in the city downtown, it's quite annoying as you'll be feeling it most of time bumper to bumper traffic. The car feels sluggish.

I'd set up a goal first and decide which turbo to do.
Ps2 as you pointed out is a hybrid turbo, the lag is not that significant, but hopefully OP is not speeding in bumper to bumper traffic or downtown for it to matter.
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      07-11-2019, 01:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natek View Post
370whp on a dynapack known as "the heartbreaker" I suspect on a another dyno I would make a good 20-30hp more but these numbers are irrelevant. I will make some Dragy runs soon. That will really tell how much power is being made. Ultimately I would love if the car could run mid 11's in the 1/4 mile. I highly doubt it has that type of speed in it's current configuration.
You should be making a good bit more than that even on a "heart breaker" dyno.

What tune are you running? I made 398whp on stock turbo with BM3 on a very conservative dyno.

Cleve
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      07-11-2019, 03:52 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by M-Supra View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natek View Post
370whp on a dynapack known as "the heartbreaker" I suspect on a another dyno I would make a good 20-30hp more but these numbers are irrelevant. I will make some Dragy runs soon. That will really tell how much power is being made. Ultimately I would love if the car could run mid 11's in the 1/4 mile. I highly doubt it has that type of speed in it's current configuration.
You should be making a good bit more than that even on a "heart breaker" dyno.

What tune are you running? I made 398whp on stock turbo with BM3 on a very conservative dyno.

Cleve
Custom tune via Cary. I agree I should be making more but California 91 octane really sucks but overall the car feels really good so I'm inclined to accept it. Like I mentioned before, draggy runs will tell the real story. Hopefully I have time to make some runs soon
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      07-11-2019, 05:51 PM   #12
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Also, for those following. Being that octane is the biggest factor holding me back I'm caving in and likely going the meth injection route before I get a bigger turbo. Looking at all the systems and their safeguards(or lack thereof) I think the Twisted Tuning direct port kit is ideal. My inference is that It’s a rebranded torqebyte controller which from everything I've been able to find is really quite impressive in its capabilities. Specifically whats attractive to me is that the tune can be setup in a way so that when the meth tank runs dry the car stays off boost. Seems ideal and dummy proof to me vs most of the other systems.
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      07-11-2019, 11:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natek View Post
Custom tune via Cary. I agree I should be making more but California 91 octane really sucks but overall the car feels really good so I'm inclined to accept it. Like I mentioned before, draggy runs will tell the real story. Hopefully I have time to make some runs soon
Do not you have 100 or 98 octane ?
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      07-12-2019, 12:11 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Rafal84 View Post
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Originally Posted by Natek View Post
Custom tune via Cary. I agree I should be making more but California 91 octane really sucks but overall the car feels really good so I'm inclined to accept it. Like I mentioned before, draggy runs will tell the real story. Hopefully I have time to make some runs soon
Do not you have 100 or 98 octane ?
No. One station has 100octane but it's not convenient to me at all. Same for e85. It's available but logistically impractical to access
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      07-12-2019, 09:33 AM   #15
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No. One station has 100octane but it's not convenient to me at all. Same for e85. It's available but logistically impractical to access
I understand. So they are quite different than Europe, 95 are on every village, 98 are almost the same, and 100 are oktons every 30-50 kilometers.

I am waiting for TTE550 and will be tuning for Shell 100 octane.
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      07-12-2019, 01:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natek View Post
Also, for those following. Being that octane is the biggest factor holding me back I'm caving in and likely going the meth injection route before I get a bigger turbo. Looking at all the systems and their safeguards(or lack thereof) I think the Twisted Tuning direct port kit is ideal. My inference is that It’s a rebranded torqebyte controller which from everything I've been able to find is really quite impressive in its capabilities. Specifically whats attractive to me is that the tune can be setup in a way so that when the meth tank runs dry the car stays off boost. Seems ideal and dummy proof to me vs most of the other systems.
I've not seen Twisted Tuning's offering mentioned before. It looks like a combination of the Torqbyte and Snow Performance nozzles and fittings. This looks like a credible system, but I would have the following to say about it in comparison to Aquamist:
  1. Torqbyte developers tried to work with Aquamist to use their PWM valve, but failed to get a solution that worked and ended up having to source a similar, but different valve; I'm not sure who's ended up being better
  2. Aquamist uses Injector Duty Cycle to determine WMI delivery amount, Torqbyte uses RPM and Boost; again, not sure who's is better
  3. Aquamist is pretty much an analogue electronics design. Simple, elegant, but arguably less customisable. There isn't an app or a way to update firmware etc, but it does work reliably (so I'm told).
Your comment about Twisted Tuning being able to have the car 'stay off boost' is interesting. How is this achieved?

There is no way that I'm aware of to integrate WMI with a DME map; the two are unaware of one another.

I've been designing my own fail-safe circuit, and have been running with my car in 'fail-safe' mode for a couple of days now. It's working fine apart from at WOT, so I need to tweak the MAP response, but it's not complex. Does Twisted Tuning have this as part of their Torqbyte controller?
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      07-12-2019, 01:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natek View Post
Also, for those following. Being that octane is the biggest factor holding me back I'm caving in and likely going the meth injection route before I get a bigger turbo. Looking at all the systems and their safeguards(or lack thereof) I think the Twisted Tuning direct port kit is ideal. My inference is that It's a rebranded torqebyte controller which from everything I've been able to find is really quite impressive in its capabilities. Specifically whats attractive to me is that the tune can be setup in a way so that when the meth tank runs dry the car stays off boost. Seems ideal and dummy proof to me vs most of the other systems.
I've not seen Twisted Tuning's offering mentioned before. It looks like a combination of the Torqbyte and Snow Performance nozzles and fittings. This looks like a credible system, but I would have the following to say about it in comparison to Aquamist:
  1. Torqbyte developers tried to work with Aquamist to use their PWM valve, but failed to get a solution that worked and ended up having to source a similar, but different valve; I'm not sure who's ended up being better
  2. Aquamist uses Injector Duty Cycle to determine WMI delivery amount, Torqbyte uses RPM and Boost; again, not sure who's is better
  3. Aquamist is pretty much an analogue electronics design. Simple, elegant, but arguably less customisable. There isn't an app or a way to update firmware etc, but it does work reliably (so I'm told).
Your comment about Twisted Tuning being able to have the car 'stay off boost' is interesting. How is this achieved?

There is no way that I'm aware of to integrate WMI with a DME map; the two are unaware of one another.

I've been designing my own fail-safe circuit, and have been running with my car in 'fail-safe' mode for a couple of days now. It's working fine apart from at WOT, so I need to tweak the MAP response, but it's not complex. Does Twisted Tuning have this as part of their Torqbyte controller?


Checkout that video, not Justin's kit per day but this guy does use the Torqebyte controller. It appears that when the failsafe is triggered the ground to the wastegate solenoid is broken causing the car to stay off boost as is its own built in safety. It's definitely a hack but I'm ok with it.

When I spoke to Justin he mentioned that his tunes are "setup with knock safeties that reduce load when I certain about of knock is registered".

Admittedly I am very ignorant to all of this as I learn by doing. So I'll likely be much more informed once I'm done with this vs now which is still the research stage for me
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      07-12-2019, 01:46 PM   #18
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Checkout that video
Ahhh... That sort of fail-safe is what I'm calling 'in-elegant'. It's very easy to achieve this with almost any meth controller on the market that has some sort of fail-safe switching output.

To achieve a drive-train error, which will indeed protect your engine, all you need to do is to disconnect either the TMAP MAP sensor wire, or the EWG position sensor wire. In both of these cases, you'll get a CEL error that the sensor has shorted to positive (there is a hold up resistor, so that in absence of a signal, the DME sees it as a short to positive), along with a drive-train error.

Aquamist's default installation instructions do this by using a relay in their controller to switch the EWG sensor wire to 5v, but I'm working on a solution that doesn't cause a CEL.

So far, what I've been able to do is bias the TMAP sensor voltage high, so that the DME sees a higher boost voltage than is really there. I'm not getting a cell, and the car is slower, but at WOT, there are some isses still.
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      07-12-2019, 02:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natek View Post


Checkout that video
Ahhh... That sort of fail-safe is what I'm calling 'in-elegant'. It's very easy to achieve this with almost any meth controller on the market that has some sort of fail-safe switching output.

To achieve a drive-train error, which will indeed protect your engine, all you need to do is to disconnect either the TMAP MAP sensor wire, or the EWG position sensor wire. In both of these cases, you'll get a CEL error that the sensor has shorted to positive (there is a hold up resistor, so that in absence of a signal, the DME sees it as a short to positive), along with a drive-train error.

Aquamist's default installation instructions do this by using a relay in their controller to switch the EWG sensor wire to 5v, but I'm working on a solution that doesn't cause a CEL.

So far, what I've been able to do is bias the TMAP sensor voltage high, so that the DME sees a higher boost voltage than is really there. I'm not getting a cell, and the car is slower, but at WOT, there are some isses still.
It's too bad we're not closer to each other. I would love to see this in person to get a better handle on how it works. Also, at this point I'm inferring that Justin's solution works like the video.

In a perfect world, the car would just revert to a lower boost level once the meth is gone vs completely staying off boost.
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      07-12-2019, 05:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
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It's too bad we're not closer to each other. I would love to see this in person to get a better handle on how it works. Also, at this point I'm inferring that Justin's solution works like the video.

In a perfect world, the car would just revert to a lower boost level once the meth is gone vs completely staying off boost.
Where in CA are you? Do you never get up to NorCal?

That's what I'm trying to design; a piggyback boost reducer. That way you can have your car tuned for Meth, and then either switch the system off for a 'valet' mode, or let the fail-safe kick in and still be drivable, but at a reduced load.

The system I've made so far works for part throttle, but at WOT you get some hunting where the throttle plate closes, EWG dumps boost but only for about half a second before building pressure again.

I think I've made two mistakes with the system so far - 1 is that it's too agressive, it basically doubles the apparent boost until clipping at ~21psi. This means that by the time you're at 10psi of boost, the DME sees 20pst, which is probably too much. The second issue is that the region where clipping occurs is too large. It starts clipping at 21psi when the engine is really producing 10.5psi, and anything over that shows at 21.

I'm working on a new version of the controller now which should track an adjustable amount of psi above truth, and start testing at say 3psi above reality?
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