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      03-20-2019, 08:53 AM   #67
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There's always something better, quicker, faster, lighter on the horizon. Waiting for the "best" will keep you in a perpetual holding pattern.

In my opinion the newer cars are getting better and better on paper, but becoming more clinical. Quicker around a track yes, but arguably less fun in a day to day environment.

Choose your weapon. You may find that the "better" car isn't as fun in the environment where you play the most.

Forgot the point: Jump in when your heart says "you complete me".
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      03-20-2019, 10:52 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
There's always something better, quicker, faster, lighter on the horizon. Waiting for the "best" will keep you in a perpetual holding pattern.

In my opinion the newer cars are getting better and better on paper, but becoming more clinical. Quicker around a track yes, but arguably less fun in a day to day environment.

Choose your weapon. You may find that the "better" car isn't as fun in the environment where you play the most.

Forgot the point: Jump in when your heart says "you complete me".
Well said. Also, enjoy your damn cars and stop worrying about resale value or trying to tear down the newer version of your car.
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      03-20-2019, 11:05 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irayi View Post
So at what point should one wait for the next gen vs getting the current gen?
Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
There's always something better, quicker, faster, lighter on the horizon. Waiting for the "best" will keep you in a perpetual holding pattern.
In my opinion the newer cars are getting better and better on paper, but becoming more clinical. Quicker around a track yes, but arguably less fun in a day to day environment.
Choose your weapon. You may find that the "better" car isn't as fun in the environment where you play the most.
Forgot the point: Jump in when your heart says "you complete me".
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Originally Posted by M2C89 View Post
Well said. Also, enjoy your damn cars and stop worrying about resale value or trying to tear down the newer version of your car.
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      03-20-2019, 12:16 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irayi View Post
So at what point should one wait for the next gen vs getting the current gen?
Well no one has a crystal ball. We do know next gen won't come with DCT. So if you want that buy the current one or get it at a discount later.

We don't know what the next gen will look like, if it's heavier, if it uses b58 or s58, or if the s58 is even any good.

We are reasonably sure it will be rwd and not awd, but who knows, maybe they do an AWD version as well?

Very likely MT still offered.

No idea on 4 door version, but seems possible since there will be 2 series GC in the future.

I guess individual paint might be offered on next gen.
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      03-20-2019, 01:27 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by irayi View Post
So at what point should one wait for the next gen vs getting the current gen?
There will always be a newer version around the corner. Find one you love, and buy it. The current M2C is amazing. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone tell you anything bad about it.
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      03-20-2019, 01:31 PM   #72
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There will always be a newer version around the corner. Find one you love, and buy it. The current M2C is amazing. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone tell you anything bad about it.
The exhaust looks bad and the car does not sound good.
Sry.
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      03-20-2019, 03:05 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranck View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by msdss View Post
There will always be a newer version around the corner. Find one you love, and buy it. The current M2C is amazing. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone tell you anything bad about it.
The exhaust looks bad and the car does not sound good.
Sry.
That just goes to say how amazing the car is that those two points, although important, can be overlooked by most.
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      03-21-2019, 03:42 AM   #74
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You guys make a good point. I could get the current gen now and drive it for 5-6 years and get the lci g87 if I really wanted to.
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      03-21-2019, 04:01 AM   #75
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Think about this -

It's against BMW's cost cutting approach to ship the S58 from Germany to Mexico just for one model (M2).

Therefore, very likely, the G87 M2 will get a beefed up B58 (B58B30TO) 410ps rated from factory, as the legitimate F87 M2 OG successor. Let's welcome.
Perhaps low 400 Bhp b58 for G87 and maybe a mid to high 400bhp s58 for g87comp ??
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      03-21-2019, 04:18 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Think about this -

It's against BMW's cost cutting approach to ship the S58 from Germany to Mexico just for one model (M2).

Therefore, very likely, the G87 M2 will get a beefed up B58 (B58B30TO) 410ps rated from factory, as the legitimate F87 M2 OG successor. Let's welcome.
Perhaps low 400 Bhp b58 for G87 and maybe a mid to high 400bhp s58 for g87comp ??
I doubt this will happen. The M2C getting the S55 was a sheer fluke; I sincerely doubt BMW will use the same trick twice.

They'll be better prepared this time around for emission changes and alter the G87's B58 to meet standards, even for their Competition variant.

If the G87 does ever get a S58, it will be a end of production, special edition vehicle, like the upcoming M2 CS.

It's not that BMW hates potential G87 owners but more of lines of basic economics. It difficult to keep the G87 within a "entry-level" price range (under 60k US), factoring in inflation and give customers everything they want, all at the same time.

Comprises will have to made for the G87's marketing plan to be feasible.
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      03-21-2019, 05:12 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Think about this -

It's against BMW's cost cutting approach to ship the S58 from Germany to Mexico just for one model (M2).

Therefore, very likely, the G87 M2 will get a beefed up B58 (B58B30TO) 410ps rated from factory, as the legitimate F87 M2 OG successor. Let's welcome.
Perhaps low 400 Bhp b58 for G87 and maybe a mid to high 400bhp s58 for g87comp ??
I doubt this will happen. The M2C getting the S55 was a sheer fluke; I sincerely doubt BMW will use the same trick twice.

They'll be better prepared this time around for emission changes and alter the G87's B58 to meet standards, even for their Competition variant.

If the G87 does ever get a S58, it will be a end of production, special edition vehicle, like the upcoming M2 CS.

It's not that BMW hates potential G87 owners but more of lines of basic economics. It difficult to keep the G87 within a "entry-level" price range (under 60k US), factoring in inflation and give customers everything they want, all at the same time.

Comprises will have to made for the G87's marketing plan to be feasible.
I agree, the S55 in the F87 M2C is pure luck and I'm glad to be a beneficiary of that.
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      03-21-2019, 08:02 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Think about this -

It's against BMW's cost cutting approach to ship the S58 from Germany to Mexico just for one model (M2).

Therefore, very likely, the G87 M2 will get a beefed up B58 (B58B30TO) 410ps rated from factory, as the legitimate F87 M2 OG successor. Let's welcome.
Perhaps low 400 Bhp b58 for G87 and maybe a mid to high 400bhp s58 for g87comp ??
no way. s58 goes in CS model. You want it, pay m3 or m2cs prices.
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      03-22-2019, 02:24 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Think about this -

It's against BMW's cost cutting approach to ship the S58 from Germany to Mexico just for one model (M2).

Therefore, very likely, the G87 M2 will get a beefed up B58 (B58B30TO) 410ps rated from factory, as the legitimate F87 M2 OG successor. Let's welcome.
Perhaps low 400 Bhp b58 for G87 and maybe a mid to high 400bhp s58 for g87comp ??
I doubt this will happen. The M2C getting the S55 was a sheer fluke; I sincerely doubt BMW will use the same trick twice.

They'll be better prepared this time around for emission changes and alter the G87's B58 to meet standards, even for their Competition variant.

If the G87 does ever get a S58, it will be a end of production, special edition vehicle, like the upcoming M2 CS.

It's not that BMW hates potential G87 owners but more of lines of basic economics. It difficult to keep the G87 within a "entry-level" price range (under 60k US), factoring in inflation and give customers everything they want, all at the same time.

Comprises will have to made for the G87's marketing plan to be feasible.
It was no fluke. There were s55 test cars rolling around before the n55 m2 came out. It was planned since the beginning but probably pending on n55 m2 popularity, and intro of m3/m4 comp packs.
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      03-22-2019, 03:53 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
It was no fluke. There were s55 test cars rolling around before the n55 m2 came out. It was planned since the beginning but probably pending on n55 m2 popularity, and intro of m3/m4 comp packs.
Judging by the sour taste that was left in many peoples mouths this time around,
I'm not very sure if any non S-engine variant of the next M2 will sell well. Most would probably wait around for the Competition version with the S58 dropped in.

This is all assuming they follow a similar path to this M2.
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      03-22-2019, 06:46 PM   #81
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It was no fluke. There were s55 test cars rolling around before the n55 m2 came out. It was planned since the beginning but probably pending on n55 m2 popularity, and intro of m3/m4 comp packs.
I think the M2 sporting the S55 may have been meant for the CS but they dropped it into the M2C early in order to pass the strict emission laws. It is all water under the bridge at this point. I can't wait to see the CS with the Carbon Fiber roof etc. I think it will cut into the M4 sales but I doubt that BMW really cares as long as they sell cars.
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      03-22-2019, 08:35 PM   #82
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It was no fluke. There were s55 test cars rolling around before the n55 m2 came out. It was planned since the beginning but probably pending on n55 m2 popularity, and intro of m3/m4 comp packs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpsRider View Post
I think the M2 sporting the S55 may have been meant for the CS but they dropped it into the M2C early in order to pass the strict emission laws. It is all water under the bridge at this point. I can't wait to see the CS with the Carbon Fiber roof etc. I think it will cut into the M4 sales but I doubt that BMW really cares as long as they sell cars.
The rumor that the N55 M2 and S55 M2 have been developed together, was reported in January 2016 by a German source. The Nürburgring Nordschleife laptime clocked in 2015 test sessions of that S55 M2 test mule version, was claimed to be "over 8 seconds faster than an M4". Must have been the unrestricted S55 engine (unlike the M2 Competition, that got an S55 detuned to 410hp).

Though it could be just another urban legend (I have not seen videos surfacing of an M2 test mule with discernible S55 sound back in 2015), it makes sense to me: BMW M managed to rather quickly perform an engine overhaul from N55 (original M2) to detuned S55 (M2 Competition) because of tightened EU emissions legislation. Instead of offering the S55 as expensive 'angry sibling', the N55 was taken off the menu and M2 fans were generously served an S55 M2 for a competitive price: the M2 Competition as entry-level BMW M model.

Original M2 hp (370) + 40 hp = M2 Competition hp (410).
M2 Competition hp (410) + 40 hp = M2 CS hp (450).

And yes, alike you I'm curious to know the M2 CS laptime at "The Ring". With lighter weight and shorter wheel base to start with + more CF bits, it should be faster than an M4, no ?

February 2016:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
As indicated in a previous comment (and see also here and here), some at 2erTalk claim that BMW has been testing an M2 featuring an S55 engine that turned out to be "over 8 seconds faster than an M4" on the Nürburgring Nordschleife (which should give an impressive 07:43 or 07:44 lap time | M4 GTS = 07:28 | Porsche Cayman GT4 = 07:40 (claimed without video) | M4 = 07:52 | base M2 = 07:58 | 1M = 08:15).
A BMW 6-cyl, compact sized Porsche Cayman GT4 fighter (price-tag may be accordingly) ? Now that's the kind of pocket rocket speak that sounds like cool music to many ears (except for those of the competition). If that interesting S55 rumor would be accurate (let's not take it for granted yet), then I doubt that BMW is testing this test mule without a bigger plan in mind. Maybe not for now or the near future, but for a more distant future. Especially when considering that the M2 base version is out on the streets from April 16 onwards and an M2 lifecycle impulse (LCI) is rumored for no earlier than MY 2018.
Picture of some M2 testmule at the Wehrseifen section of the Nürburgring Nordschleife - late March 2015 test sessions:
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      03-22-2019, 09:53 PM   #83
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I wouldn't doubt that's a true story, and that BMW purposefully took out the S55 in the beginning so as to not let the M2 out perform its bigger brother. Similar to how the Cayman would out perform the 911 if Porsche allowed it to.
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      03-25-2019, 10:13 AM   #84
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Imo BMW needs the M2CS to run with the Cayman GTS for all of the benchracers. The two cars will never feel the same regardless of running the same laptime, but BMW needs to demonstrate what it can do. I still believe they can put it in the high 7:30s if they want. Keeping it inline with the Cayman GTS would be damned impressive for a car that can haul around the kiddos. The S55 allows them to do this if desired.
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      03-26-2019, 06:34 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Rupes View Post
VW has been manufacturing cars in Mexico for some time, and look how reliab...err nope, scratch that.

German cars not made in Germany lose a bit of their luster to me, but I guess it's the way of the world.
Had two BMW's made in good old US and they were flawless.

1998 BMW Z3
2000 BMW MZ3


Not so sure about Mexico for an M car.
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      03-26-2019, 08:34 PM   #86
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I wouldn't doubt that's a true story, and that BMW purposefully took out the S55 in the beginning so as to not let the M2 out perform its bigger brother. Similar to how the Cayman would out perform the 911 if Porsche allowed it to.
Didn't they switch to the S55 purely because the N55 no longer met European standards for emission and it was easier to detune that engine than rework the N55 for a third time? I'm sure emission standards are released years in advance so they tested the S55 early knowing it would eventually replace the N55. The S55 started out as the amazing N55 engine and while it was great on paper they realized it wasn't what people wanted for the M2. They took what worked on the S55, forged crank and rods, new piston rings, etc, and brought it back the N55 and left the rest out.

I think BMW was forced to make the change and everyone would have preferred an M2C that had maybe 10-15 more HP on the N55, new wheels, adaptive suspension, better cooling and a new styling. The S55 is a great engine but sound and power delivery is a huge part of the experience. Look at the current used market for the M4, you can find some cheaper than you can get an E92 with similar miles. I believe mostly impart to the weight, engine and lack of soul.

I bought the M2 because I wanted a small car with great handling that sounded amazing. At no time did I think, "I wish they would put a heavier, terrible sounding engine in here with more power". For those that did want more 40-50 more HP, a weight free tune could have accomplished that without changing the sound the car produces.

I'm sorry but BMW had their hands tied behind their back on this one.
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      03-26-2019, 08:52 PM   #87
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Quote:
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Didn't they switch to the S55 purely because the N55 no longer met European standards for emission and it was easier to detune that engine than rework the N55 for a third time? I'm sure emission standards are released years in advance so they tested the S55 early knowing it would eventually replace the N55. The S55 started out as the amazing N55 engine and while it was great on paper they realized it wasn't what people wanted for the M2. They took what worked on the S55, forged crank and rods, new piston rings, etc, and brought it back the N55 and left the rest out.

I think BMW was forced to make the change and everyone would have preferred an M2C that had maybe 10-15 more HP on the N55, new wheels, adaptive suspension, better cooling and a new styling. The S55 is a great engine but sound and power delivery is a huge part of the experience. Look at the current used market for the M4, you can find some cheaper than you can get an E92 with similar miles. I believe mostly impart to the weight, engine and lack of soul.

I bought the M2 because I wanted a small car with great handling that sounded amazing. At no time did I think, "I wish they would put a heavier, terrible sounding engine in here with more power". For those that did want more 40-50 more HP, a weight free tune could have accomplished that without changing the sound the car produces.

I'm sorry but BMW had their hands tied behind their back on this one.
The N55 is not for me.

I have always wanted the S55 in the M2 and that's why now I have the M2C. The N55 sound better? To me it sounds more refined but lacks aggression where as the S55 is all angry and taut.

You can't tune the N55 with 40-50 more hp because of the smallish turbo and lesser cooling capacity. May be you can get one or two runs with 20 more hp after tuning but from the third run onwards the turbo will heat soak and power drops drastically. Where as the S55 delivers at least 410ps run after run.

I would definitely like to see the S58 in the next M2 from the start.

Last edited by Karmic Man; 03-26-2019 at 08:58 PM..
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      03-26-2019, 09:08 PM   #88
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XRAVE View Post
Didn't they switch to the S55 purely because the N55 no longer met European standards for emission and it was easier to detune that engine than rework the N55 for a third time? I'm sure emission standards are released years in advance so they tested the S55 early knowing it would eventually replace the N55. The S55 started out as the amazing N55 engine and while it was great on paper they realized it wasn't what people wanted for the M2. They took what worked on the S55, forged crank and rods, new piston rings, etc, and brought it back the N55 and left the rest out.

I think BMW was forced to make the change and everyone would have preferred an M2C that had maybe 10-15 more HP on the N55, new wheels, adaptive suspension, better cooling and a new styling. The S55 is a great engine but sound and power delivery is a huge part of the experience. Look at the current used market for the M4, you can find some cheaper than you can get an E92 with similar miles. I believe mostly impart to the weight, engine and lack of soul.

I bought the M2 because I wanted a small car with great handling that sounded amazing. At no time did I think, "I wish they would put a heavier, terrible sounding engine in here with more power". For those that did want more 40-50 more HP, a weight free tune could have accomplished that without changing the sound the car produces.

I'm sorry but BMW had their hands tied behind their back on this one.
The N55 is not for me.

I have always wanted the S55 in the M2 and that's why now I have the M2C. The N55 sound better? To me it sounds more refined but lacks aggression where as the S55 is all angry and taut.

You can't tune the N55 with 40-50 more hp because of the smallish turbo. May be you can get a single run with 20 more hp after tuning but after 2-3 runs the turbo will heat soak and power drops drastically.
I should change my wording, most, not everyone. Maybe you think the S55 sounds better but most don't. I would say if you found key words on the internet for the M3/M4 it would be bad sound. With a simple JB4, you can add 60 HP to the wheels with no other mods. I agree heat soak may become a problem but more so on a drag strip than on a track. A FMIC would fix that if power was really what your looking for.

My main point was I think BMW had to go with the S55 from a finical perspective and if they had their choice would have stuck with the N55. Usually when the make a comp model, they keep the same engine and add little to no extra power. Why would the spend money to rework the N55 again rather than stick the S55 in from the beginning? They could hav easily detuned it further and removed some of the cooling to be around 370-380. I don't agree it's not to compete with the M3/M4 because it already competes with the N55 in it.

Engines and specifically sound I think are a big selling point of a car. Look at the E92 vs the F80. There are a lot of factors but I'd say a majority say, the 8400 RPM V8.
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