[AmuroRay]

Its 11” tall - it will need to be cut, just like the ER.
I don’t know how Do88 and CSF get away with it - maybe they are under 10” tall.

[Westersund]

It makes sense cutting up the M2 x-brace since a new M2 x-brace cost slightly less than a M235i v-brace, at least here in Sweden.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Westersund

It makes sense cutting up the M2 x-brace since a new M2 x-brace cost slightly less than a M235i v-brace, at least here in Sweden.

It’s not a matter of if he should or shouldn’t, it’s a matter of need. Most of the race intercoolers are 11” high, which appear to be too high for the M2 X brace. The ER Intercooler is 11” tall, and needs (and comes with) a cut brace - the VRSF is the same height, and my understanding is that it needs this modification as well.

The BMS is a VRSF clone (this was stated by VRSF) made in a different factory. The original had a stupid flimsy welded in diverter that did absolutely nothing but lower flow as the sole differentiation between them.

Outside of that, they should be dimensionally the same requiring the same work to fit.

It appears the Do88 and CSF are shorter by about an inch and thus don’t have this issue.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by F87source

That's true. But the m2's factory brace offers significantly more structural rigidity - so if you can cut it in such a way that leaves as much of it behind as possible you will retain those structural benefits. I think I can cut it in such a way that leaves the horizontal brace in place, which will give it far better structural rigidity than an m235i brace. But we will see.

Here’s what I did for my Evo3. At least it gives a little more support in the lower corners than nothing at all. My M2 brace was already chopped bc of my previous Dinan IC, so sacrificing it further wasn’t a big deal.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...5&postcount=42

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Its 11” tall - it will need to be cut, just like the ER.
I don’t know how Do88 and CSF get away with it - maybe they are under 10” tall.

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

It’s not a matter of if he should or shouldn’t, it’s a matter of need. Most of the race intercoolers are 11” high, which appear to be too high for the M2 X brace. The ER Intercooler is 11” tall, and needs (and comes with) a cut brace - the VRSF is the same height, and my understanding is that it needs this modification as well.

The BMS is a VRSF clone (this was stated by VRSF) made in a different factory. The original had a stupid flimsy welded in diverter that did absolutely nothing but lower flow as the sole differentiation between them.

Outside of that, they should be dimensionally the same requiring the same work to fit.

It appears the Do88 and CSF are shorter by about an inch and thus don’t have this issue.

So you're incorrect in a few areas:

1) It isn't about height in terms of the csf and d088 intercoolers - it is about thickness. The m2 brace has plenty of room behind of it given that the intercooler isn't too thick, it isn't about heigh it is about thickness. This is why the CSF and D088 intercoolers fit behind the stock brace, because it was a 5" intercooler like stock, and the stepped portion isn't too thick.

https://mashimarho.com/cdn/shop/file...p?v=1684966824


2) The ER intercooler doesn't come with a cut brace, you have to modify your stock one. The reason why you have to cut the stock brace is because again the ER intercooler is too thick, as iti s designed to sit completely infront of the radiators and not tuck beneath it.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1828191





BMS's racecore intercooler no longer has that baffle in the inlet, I think that was limited to the E series n54 racecore intercooler only.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by F87source

So you're incorrect in a few areas:

1) It isn't about height in terms of the csf and d088 intercoolers - it is about thickness. The m2 brace has plenty of room behind of it given that the intercooler isn't too thick, it isn't about heigh it is about thickness. This is why the CSF and D088 intercoolers fit behind the stock brace, because it was a 5" intercooler like stock, and the stepped portion isn't too thick.

https://mashimarho.com/cdn/shop/file...p?v=1684966824

The CSF is a 5.5" intercooler. You can see the the comparison here with the PTF intercooler (which is still slightly shorter and less depth than a Race intercooler. 6" vs 6.5 for the VRSF/BMS.

The PTF step is 2.75" which means the CSF is about 2.5 or less. So yeah, it may be a depth issue.

Originally Posted by F87source

2) The ER intercooler doesn't come with a cut brace, you have to modify your stock one. The reason why you have to cut the stock brace is because again the ER intercooler is too thick, as iti s designed to sit completely infront of the radiators and not tuck beneath it.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1828191

Yes, it literally does. First the Selection on Xph shows a difference in price between the M2 version and the regular F2X/3X

Second, his stock brace can be seen in the box in the backround:

Originally Posted by F87source

BMS's racecore intercooler no longer has that baffle in the inlet, I think that was limited to the E series n54 racecore intercooler only.

Maybe, but they advertised it for the F chassis:

https://nvperformance.co.za/product/...f-chassis-bmw/

[c0riolis]

Originally Posted by F87source

The ER intercooler doesn't come with a cut brace

It does, they charge you $100 for it when you buy the kit.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

The CSF is a 5.5" intercooler. You can see the the comparison here with the PTF intercooler (which is still slightly shorter and less depth than a Race intercooler. 6" vs 6.5 for the VRSF/BMS.

The PTF step is 2.75" which means the CSF is about 2.5 or less. So yeah, it may be a depth issue.





Yes, it literally does. First the Selection on Xph shows a difference in price between the M2 version and the regular F2X/3X

Second, his stock brace can be seen in the box in the backround:






Maybe, but they advertised it for the F chassis:

https://nvperformance.co.za/product/...f-chassis-bmw/

It most likely is a depth issue, because all the intercoolers go behind the lower part of the front brace - and that thing has a very similar clearance top to bottom, it only ever becomes an issue with the super deep intercoolers.


Yes you are right, they do offer an option for a new brace, I didn't see it on ER's site before.



That was likely a mistake, as it is not on the BMS site for the F series intercooler and only on the E series intercooler:

https://burgertuning.com/products/bm...dc469de4&_ss=r

https://burgertuning.com/products/e-...dc469de4&_ss=r


also take a look at the connector on the image, that isn't what the connector looks like on an F series intercooler.

[AmuroRay]

A couple of years ago, there was a few members who mentioned they bought a VRSF race and a Competition model.

The guy with the competition model was upset that it contacted the brace and rubbed against it. He didn't describe the how and why - and just ended up sending it back for another brand. I followed up with him on it and he wasn't too specific.

So if it's a depth issue, why can't spacers or washer be used to space it out a little bit?

M2guru any insight you can provide during your install? I would love to pick up a brace if it's possible to fit with washers/spacers.

[M2guru]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

M2guru any insight you can provide during your install? I would love to pick up a brace if it's possible to fit with washers/spacers.

I installed the m235i brace. It doesn't even come close to hitting.



I won't be driving the car at the track for another couple weeks so i don't know if the reduced bracing will make a difference. I am guessing I won't notice it for two reasons: 1) it'll have been 5 months or so since I last drove the car at the track and 2) I don't think that I am sensitive to such a small change.

[M2guru]

I had to go back and read everything above after I posted (should have done that before posting)...I don't think I helped in my response because the pic just shows the height and not depth. Next time I have the front off, I'll have to look at the depth and if it comes close to hitting. I didn't notice any issues during the install related to depth.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by M2guru

I installed the m235i brace. It doesn't even come close to hitting.

Attachment 3429406

I won't be driving the car at the track for another couple weeks so i don't know if the reduced bracing will make a difference. I am guessing I won't notice it for two reasons: 1) it'll have been 5 months or so since I last drove the car at the track and 2) I don't think that I am sensitive to such a small change.

I like all that clean air hitting the top half of the radiator. The Evo3 goes all the way up to the M235i V-brace: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...8&postcount=44

I’ve at least removed the top flap on the Evo3 and am running the stock DCT cooler (different than that pic) but still…

[ThreeStripes]

Originally Posted by ZM2

I like all that clean air hitting the top half of the radiator. The Evo3 goes all the way up to the M235i V-brace: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...8&postcount=44

I’ve at least removed the top flap on the Evo3 and am running the stock DCT cooler (different than that pic) but still…

Yeah, manual OGs without the DCT cooler there really have a packaging advantage.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

Yeah, manual OGs without the DCT cooler there really have a packaging advantage.

Add the fact that DCT fluid is circulating at 230-250F thru there while on track, and the air that passes thru the DCT cooler to the radiator is already going to be a bit toasty.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

A couple of years ago, there was a few members who mentioned they bought a VRSF race and a Competition model.

The guy with the competition model was upset that it contacted the brace and rubbed against it. He didn't describe the how and why - and just ended up sending it back for another brand. I followed up with him on it and he wasn't too specific.

So if it's a depth issue, why can't spacers or washer be used to space it out a little bit?

M2guru any insight you can provide during your install? I would love to pick up a brace if it's possible to fit with washers/spacers.

If you space out the vbrace, the top part won't bolt in right because it is now at an angle that is too sharp for it to sit flush.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M2guru

I installed the m235i brace. It doesn't even come close to hitting.

Attachment 3429406

I won't be driving the car at the track for another couple weeks so i don't know if the reduced bracing will make a difference. I am guessing I won't notice it for two reasons: 1) it'll have been 5 months or so since I last drove the car at the track and 2) I don't think that I am sensitive to such a small change.

Im just looking at the image you posted, and to me it looks like the intercooler is sitting behind the silver tabs where the M2's original V brace mounts. So I guess my question is - why won't the original brace fit when the intercooler looks like it is sitting behind the mounting tabs? Have you tried test fitting the original brace?

[F87source]

Like if you look at this image from: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1828191


You can see that the ER intercooler is too deep, it sticks out past where the m2 v brace mounts. But from the image m2guru posted, it is hard to tell since it is directly head on and we don't get depth perception. But it really does look like it fully sits behind the m2's original v-brace mounting position.





Then you can see on this CSF intercooler install from: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1870298


it gets really close to the vbrace, any thicker (like race core intercoolers) and it will touch. So it likely is a depth issue like I said before, not a height issue. But im curious, is there more room up top ? And the end tank shape really looks like it might influence fitment too, since the csf and er seem to budge out more.

[F87source]

I just saw this:

This m2 guy got his arm intercooler installed without pulling the factory m2 brace and as you can see it fits but it literally looks like it is touching.



The importance of this is that the ER intercooler and the ARM intercooler both have the same diamensions, since the ARM intercooler looks like a clone of the ER:

https://armmotorsports.com/collectio...tercooler-fmic

https://www.evolutionracewerks.com/node/258




So this makes it a bit more promising that I can potentially retain the m2 v brace. Also the question that remains is - what sticks out more? A standard 11" tall race core intercooler, or the arm/er intercooler?

[6speed_M2]

From what I understand thus far,

The ER/ARM, MAD & VRSF Race are the best in the market?

And the MAD & VRSF require the M235i brace?

Also the Wagner III is an afterthought at this point? Due to price & being too large for its own good?

I would like to eventually update my first post in this fashion^ and have a simple guide for anyone without needing to read the entire thread.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by 6speed_M2

From what I understand thus far,

The ER/ARM, MAD & VRSF Race are the best in the market?

And the MAD & VRSF require the M235i brace?

Also the Wagner III is an afterthought at this point? Due to price & being too large for its own good?

I would like to eventually update my first post in this fashion^ and have a simple guide for anyone without needing to read the entire thread.

I dont actually think the ER or ARM will offer the same cooling performance as the VRSF/MAD/BMS cooler since it is smaller overall.

Yes the VRSF/MAD/BMS at this time looks to require the m235i brace.


Personally id buy the BMS intercooler over the other 2, simply because BMS has better customer service, and at this current moment VRSF doesn't look to have the bery good customer service and ships defective parts pretty frequently according to customer reports I have read online. Alegedly it was so bad that vendors like XPH no longer sell VRSF parts.

[6speed_M2]

Noted.

So BMS/MAD would be the best two options. MAD also comes in a black finish as well. Both are priced similarly & require the M235i V-brace.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by 6speed_M2

Noted.

So BMS/MAD would be the best two options. MAD also comes in a black finish as well. Both are priced similarly & require the M235i V-brace.

I personally dont like the black finish, if it gets chipped via rock strikes it looks horrible.