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      07-20-2018, 05:37 AM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobBMW14 View Post
For record and comparison, total number of M2C allocations released for the U.S. was 512. I asked my local dealership when they expected the next round of allocations to be released and he said 4th quarter and didn't expert more allocations that previously released. So simply doubling the number would put it at 1024 for 2018.
Thank you ... 512 allocations and there are how many dealerships in the US ? Last time I checked it was around 360 dealers nationwide... so that's an average of under 1.5 cars per dealer for this round of allocations.
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      07-20-2018, 06:28 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
EDIT: just reading the link you provided. how do you have proof that one of the press cars was sold to the public? how did that owners know it was a press car? In general these cars are not sold. IF they were, i would imagine a BMW exec got one somehow and then sold it later on...
Look at the options spreadsheet linked in the first post of that thread.

WBSUR9C59BVP75916 was built with option code S902A which is prep for a press car. This is one of the 10 cars people exclude to get down to 740.

Look at the Carfax attached for this VIN.

It was originally registered as a corporate fleet car in Woodcliff Lake, NJ (BMWNA headquarters).
After use as a press car it was auctioned in Feb 2012 where only dealers could buy it.
BMW Irvine was the buyer at auction. They prepped the car and sold it to an individual in April 2012.

The spreadsheet also identifies the 8 performance center cars.
In terms of strictly counting production numbers you are correct in counting the press cars BUT these cars were NOT meant for circulation hence people get to the 740 number as those are the actual number of cars BOUGHT by US customers. I am however quite fascinated by the others and you seem to have a wealth of knowledge about this matter so thank you.
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      07-20-2018, 06:31 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickFinga View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
they're not discounted. they're destroyed

nobody sells pre-production, test cars, or media cars to the public...they don't go into circulation or ownership.

EDIT: just reading the link you provided. how do you have proof that one of the press cars was sold to the public? how did that owners know it was a press car? In general these cars are not sold. IF they were, i would imagine a BMW exec got one somehow and then sold it later on...
Run the VIN, it says it's a press car. You are highly mistaken. Pre-production, press, exhibit cars constantly end up in public hands. In some cases even test mules and prototypes end up in public hands.

BMW M6 test mule built on top of a 635CSi

Another test mule. 850CSi built on top of an 850i.

When you get a pre-production car, you sometimes end up with some rare options, like this E39 M5

Pre-production E46 M3

Pre-production E36 M3 Sedan. This is the only E36 M3 Sedan built for the Canadian market with an automatic transmission. Automatic transmission was never available on the E36 outside US.

This is straight up a concept car. It's a 325i Convertible with all-wheel drive(never available on the convertibles) and E30 M3 body.
Thanks for the links. Very interesting obviously however it doesn't change the fact that they are not SUPPOSED to reach circulation. These cars mainly get rescued by execs and people within the BMW loop—-eventually hitting the market when those people move them on. For all intensive purposes there are 2 numbers; sales numbers and total production numbers. These cars are not sold as new from the dealer as the actual 'new' cars are so I don't feel they should strictly be counted in official sales or circulation numbers; that being said they are very interesting!

Pre-production cars do not meet federal mandates as they still have not reached final spec prior to mass production. They are still considered 'test' vehicles. They either get destroyed OR get kept under company ownership. My guess is these go to 'owners' through company ownership. In the old days of the 80s and 90s maybe there were more efficient ways of working loopholes through the system...and companies still probably have ways to do that!
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      07-20-2018, 07:45 AM   #224
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Quote:
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How well did you do, if I may ask?
about 8% off MSRP.
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      07-20-2018, 08:03 AM   #225
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Need to ask a dumb question - what's the difference between an M2 and a LCI M2?
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      07-20-2018, 08:58 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranck View Post
Need to ask a dumb question - what's the difference between an M2 and a LCI M2?
Technically nothing.
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      07-20-2018, 10:12 AM   #227
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Thanks for posting this awesome info !
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      07-20-2018, 10:14 AM   #228
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So are all future m2 going to be the competition model? What if you dont want a CS model and just want a regular m2?
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      07-20-2018, 10:20 AM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranck View Post
Need to ask a dumb question - what's the difference between an M2 and a LCI M2?
This pretty much covers it...

https://www.bmwblog.com/2017/05/11/b...fted-m2-coupe/

Gauge cluster, dash layout, headlights, taillights, touchscreen all new for 2018.

Forum will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the LCI was also when BMW allowed buyers to add a sunroof to the spec.
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      07-20-2018, 10:47 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afwares View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranck View Post
Need to ask a dumb question - what's the difference between an M2 and a LCI M2?
This pretty much covers it...

https://www.bmwblog.com/2017/05/11/bmw-unveils-facelifted-m2-coupe/

Gauge cluster, dash layout, headlights, taillights, touchscreen all new for 2018.

Forum will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the LCI was also when BMW allowed buyers to add a sunroof to the spec.
Don't know about the US, but mine is a PRE-LCI with sunroof (Switzerland)
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      07-20-2018, 10:52 AM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
It's a marketing decision from the beginning on whether or not they plan to make 10,000 or 50,000... ( perhaps it was 10,000 a year ? which we have heard was the original plan.. and that means they doggedly stuck to it ... )
10,000 (F87 M2 life cycle).
Rumor: BMW M2 Production Pegged at 10,000 – US to Get Around 1,800
By Gabriel Bridger - December 17, 2015
http://www.bimmerfile.com/2015/12/17...pped-at-10000/
BimmerFile has recently learned that BMW’s current plan is to produce around 10,000 M2 during the car’s lifecycle. However it’s important to note that doesn’t mean it will be limited if early sales are through the roof. The 10,000 figure is due to expected demand correlated with the need production molds every so many thousand vehicles produced.
US production figures are perhaps more interesting. Assuming product planners are right with demand and the 10,000 figure holds, BMW is planning on importing just under 2,000 M2s. That is a massive increase over the 740 units BMW sold of the 1M in the US market. Good for those who want the car. Bad for resale value.
Interestingly the 1M’s production figures doubled when BMW (due to demand) decided to invest in new production molds that doubled the life of production of number produced (from 2,700 to over 5,000). However BMWNA held to its advertised one year model cycle and declined the opportunity to import more.
The M2 will debut at the Detroit Motor Show with full pricing and US specifications to be announced. Expect the first cars to roll into US dealerships in March of 2016.
1M production: 6309 (2011-2012).
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      07-20-2018, 10:55 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kothar View Post
So are all future m2 going to be the competition model? What if you dont want a CS model and just want a regular m2?
If you want an original M2 the used market is now your best, and possibly only, option at this point. You may be able to get lucky and find a new one at a dealer for a good deal but those will all be gone soon.

All future M2s will be “competition” models with S55. CS is speculation for now but a ways out still if it does get made.

The original M2 is no longer in production.
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      07-20-2018, 11:06 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afwares View Post
This pretty much covers it...
https://www.bmwblog.com/2017/05/11/b...fted-m2-coupe/
Gauge cluster, dash layout, headlights, taillights, touchscreen all new for 2018.
Forum will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the LCI was also when BMW allowed buyers to add a sunroof to the spec.
Sunroof (option 403 - "Glass roof, electrical") was available on EUR-spec F87 M2 since launch (unlike for USA-spec the first year).

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      07-20-2018, 11:13 AM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SickFinga View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
they're not discounted. they're destroyed

nobody sells pre-production, test cars, or media cars to the public...they don't go into circulation or ownership.

EDIT: just reading the link you provided. how do you have proof that one of the press cars was sold to the public? how did that owners know it was a press car? In general these cars are not sold. IF they were, i would imagine a BMW exec got one somehow and then sold it later on...
Run the VIN, it says it's a press car. You are highly mistaken. Pre-production, press, exhibit cars constantly end up in public hands. In some cases even test mules and prototypes end up in public hands.

BMW M6 test mule built on top of a 635CSi

Another test mule. 850CSi built on top of an 850i.

When you get a pre-production car, you sometimes end up with some rare options, like this E39 M5

Pre-production E46 M3

Pre-production E36 M3 Sedan. This is the only E36 M3 Sedan built for the Canadian market with an automatic transmission. Automatic transmission was never available on the E36 outside US.

This is straight up a concept car. It's a 325i Convertible with all-wheel drive(never available on the convertibles) and E30 M3 body.
Thanks for the links. Very interesting obviously however it doesn't change the fact that they are not SUPPOSED to reach circulation. These cars mainly get rescued by execs and people within the BMW loop—-eventually hitting the market when those people move them on. For all intensive purposes there are 2 numbers; sales numbers and total production numbers. These cars are not sold as new from the dealer as the actual 'new' cars are so I don't feel they should strictly be counted in official sales or circulation numbers; that being said they are very interesting!

Pre-production cars do not meet federal mandates as they still have not reached final spec prior to mass production. They are still considered 'test' vehicles. They either get destroyed OR get kept under company ownership. My guess is these go to 'owners' through company ownership. In the old days of the 80s and 90s maybe there were more efficient ways of working loopholes through the system...and companies still probably have ways to do that!
If they're out there on the market to be bought they should be counted. If the discussion is how rare is this car, you should count all the cars that the public has access to.
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      07-20-2018, 12:09 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyinHou View Post
So, 2995 M2's for the US market - any idea how many were produced worldwide?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
It's all right there: 497+7393+3954=11,844 for rest of the world.
Or 14,839 total worldwide.
I think you guys are both missing some numbers unless you're purposely ignoring the LCI to see how many non-LCI were made?

There were a total of 29,470 M2s produced.

3,493 US/Canada M2
7,392 RoW LHD M2
3,973 RoW RHD M2
3,495 US/Canada M2 LCI
7,490 RoW LHD M2 LCI
3,627 RoW RHD M2 LCI

Add them all together to get 29,470.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyinHou View Post
So, 2995 M2's for the US market - any idea how many were produced worldwide?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
It's all right there: 497+7393+3954=11,844 for rest of the world.
Or 14,839 total worldwide.
I think you guys are both missing some numbers unless you're purposely ignoring the LCI to see how many non-LCI were made?

There were a total of 29,470 M2s produced.

3,493 US/Canada M2
7,392 RoW LHD M2
3,973 RoW RHD M2
3,495 US/Canada M2 LCI
7,490 RoW LHD M2 LCI
3,627 RoW RHD M2 LCI

Add them all together to get 29,470.
It's difficult to read the charts from a phone.

Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyinHou View Post
So, 2995 M2's for the US market - any idea how many were produced worldwide?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
It's all right there: 497+7393+3954=11,844 for rest of the world.
Or 14,839 total worldwide.
I think you guys are both missing some numbers unless you're purposely ignoring the LCI to see how many non-LCI were made?

There were a total of 29,470 M2s produced.

3,493 US/Canada M2
7,392 RoW LHD M2
3,973 RoW RHD M2
3,495 US/Canada M2 LCI
7,490 RoW LHD M2 LCI
3,627 RoW RHD M2 LCI

Add them all together to get 29,470.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyinHou View Post
So, 2995 M2's for the US market - any idea how many were produced worldwide?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
It's all right there: 497+7393+3954=11,844 for rest of the world.
Or 14,839 total worldwide.
I think you guys are both missing some numbers unless you're purposely ignoring the LCI to see how many non-LCI were made?

There were a total of 29,470 M2s produced.

3,493 US/Canada M2
7,392 RoW LHD M2
3,973 RoW RHD M2
3,495 US/Canada M2 LCI
7,490 RoW LHD M2 LCI
3,627 RoW RHD M2 LCI

Add them all together to get 29,470.
It's difficult to read the charts from a phone.

Thank you.
You're not wrong!
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      07-20-2018, 12:29 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SickFinga View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
they're not discounted. they're destroyed

nobody sells pre-production, test cars, or media cars to the public...they don't go into circulation or ownership.

EDIT: just reading the link you provided. how do you have proof that one of the press cars was sold to the public? how did that owners know it was a press car? In general these cars are not sold. IF they were, i would imagine a BMW exec got one somehow and then sold it later on...
Run the VIN, it says it's a press car. You are highly mistaken. Pre-production, press, exhibit cars constantly end up in public hands. In some cases even test mules and prototypes end up in public hands.

BMW M6 test mule built on top of a 635CSi

Another test mule. 850CSi built on top of an 850i.

When you get a pre-production car, you sometimes end up with some rare options, like this E39 M5

Pre-production E46 M3

Pre-production E36 M3 Sedan. This is the only E36 M3 Sedan built for the Canadian market with an automatic transmission. Automatic transmission was never available on the E36 outside US.

This is straight up a concept car. It's a 325i Convertible with all-wheel drive(never available on the convertibles) and E30 M3 body.
Thanks for the links. Very interesting obviously however it doesn't change the fact that they are not SUPPOSED to reach circulation. These cars mainly get rescued by execs and people within the BMW loop—-eventually hitting the market when those people move them on. For all intensive purposes there are 2 numbers; sales numbers and total production numbers. These cars are not sold as new from the dealer as the actual 'new' cars are so I don't feel they should strictly be counted in official sales or circulation numbers; that being said they are very interesting!

Pre-production cars do not meet federal mandates as they still have not reached final spec prior to mass production. They are still considered 'test' vehicles. They either get destroyed OR get kept under company ownership. My guess is these go to 'owners' through company ownership. In the old days of the 80s and 90s maybe there were more efficient ways of working loopholes through the system...and companies still probably have ways to do that!
If they're out there on the market to be bought they should be counted. If the discussion is how rare is this car, you should count all the cars that the public has access to.
I get what you're saying but official numbers do NOT include pre-production cars.

Either way it's only a matter of about 10 cars. 740 vs. 750. Even if it was 900 it would still be ridiculously rare.
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      07-20-2018, 03:02 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Thanks for the links. Very interesting obviously however it doesn't change the fact that they are not SUPPOSED to reach circulation. These cars mainly get rescued by execs and people within the BMW loop—-eventually hitting the market when those people move them on. For all intensive purposes there are 2 numbers; sales numbers and total production numbers. These cars are not sold as new from the dealer as the actual 'new' cars are so I don't feel they should strictly be counted in official sales or circulation numbers; that being said they are very interesting!

Pre-production cars do not meet federal mandates as they still have not reached final spec prior to mass production. They are still considered 'test' vehicles. They either get destroyed OR get kept under company ownership. My guess is these go to 'owners' through company ownership. In the old days of the 80s and 90s maybe there were more efficient ways of working loopholes through the system...and companies still probably have ways to do that!
I don't know where you get the idea of those cars "not supposed" to reach circulation or that they are not federally compliant. Pre-production cars are pretty much always comply with all the regulation. Those cars are final versions that are built to test them and production line one last time. These cars are not rescued by the execs. They are shipped to the headquarters, used for testing and marketing. If the car ends up being in good condition, they put it back on the market.

It doesn't matter if the car was sold new or not, what matter is that this car is available to the public right now. What if a car was ordered by a dealer and it is hoarded by them for years? Sure it might never end up in public hands, but a lot of time they are let go. Therefore, all those cars should be counted. So yeah, maybe they are not counted as "sold" cars and they don't contribute to their bottom line as much as new cars, but these cars exist.

Yes, 80s might've been more lax, but in 2006 BMW sold a pre-production E46 330Ci ZHP convertible with an SMG transmission to the public. It is the only SMG ZHP out there. How about a 2013 320i xDrive with a manual transmission? The only one in existence in the US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
I get what you're saying but official numbers do NOT include pre-production cars.

Either way it's only a matter of about 10 cars. 740 vs. 750. Even if it was 900 it would still be ridiculously rare.
Here is where you are wrong again. Official BMW AG numbers, always include all those pre-production and press cars. If you open any BMW history book, or even check BMW Archives website, you will see production stats that include all those cars that you claim are not included.
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      07-20-2018, 05:43 PM   #238
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I have an original PRE LCI Mineral Grey M2 for sale, not registered, we bought it from a dealer who couldn't sell it, it's fully loaded with delivery mileage, if anyone's interested DM me, car is based in the Czech Republic has full front PPF. If anyone still wants a brand new MG original M2.
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      07-20-2018, 07:22 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickFinga View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Thanks for the links. Very interesting obviously however it doesn't change the fact that they are not SUPPOSED to reach circulation. These cars mainly get rescued by execs and people within the BMW loop—-eventually hitting the market when those people move them on. For all intensive purposes there are 2 numbers; sales numbers and total production numbers. These cars are not sold as new from the dealer as the actual 'new' cars are so I don't feel they should strictly be counted in official sales or circulation numbers; that being said they are very interesting!

Pre-production cars do not meet federal mandates as they still have not reached final spec prior to mass production. They are still considered 'test' vehicles. They either get destroyed OR get kept under company ownership. My guess is these go to 'owners' through company ownership. In the old days of the 80s and 90s maybe there were more efficient ways of working loopholes through the system...and companies still probably have ways to do that!
I don't know where you get the idea of those cars "not supposed" to reach circulation or that they are not federally compliant. Pre-production cars are pretty much always comply with all the regulation. Those cars are final versions that are built to test them and production line one last time. These cars are not rescued by the execs. They are shipped to the headquarters, used for testing and marketing. If the car ends up being in good condition, they put it back on the market.

It doesn't matter if the car was sold new or not, what matter is that this car is available to the public right now. What if a car was ordered by a dealer and it is hoarded by them for years? Sure it might never end up in public hands, but a lot of time they are let go. Therefore, all those cars should be counted. So yeah, maybe they are not counted as "sold" cars and they don't contribute to their bottom line as much as new cars, but these cars exist.

Yes, 80s might've been more lax, but in 2006 BMW sold a pre-production E46 330Ci ZHP convertible with an SMG transmission to the public. It is the only SMG ZHP out there. How about a 2013 320i xDrive with a manual transmission? The only one in existence in the US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
I get what you're saying but official numbers do NOT include pre-production cars.

Either way it's only a matter of about 10 cars. 740 vs. 750. Even if it was 900 it would still be ridiculously rare.
Here is where you are wrong again. Official BMW AG numbers, always include all those pre-production and press cars. If you open any BMW history book, or even check BMW Archives website, you will see production stats that include all those cars that you claim are not included.
MOST pre-production cars if we are using that definition; are still considered to be unfinished or 'test' cars even if they look finished. They are supposed to NOT be for sale, period. They may or may not comply with federal regulations—-they don't have to they are not considered a finished product. You are correct in saying that some do become for sale through corporate personnel; but it's not the norm in any way nor is it something that commonly happens.

Press cars, assuming they were used after the car was put on sale in the market; may get sold on the retail market—-assuming they comply with federal regulations.

Sometimes companies bring foreign spec cars for press or pre-production and those are not supposed to be sold if not the spec of that nation.

My knowledge of this subject matter comes directly through friends and contacts who are auto executives at various car companies.
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      07-20-2018, 10:03 PM   #240
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Quote:
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MOST pre-production cars if we are using that definition; are still considered to be unfinished or 'test' cars even if they look finished.
Some pre-production cars are not like the others. There are different levels of them, just like in software, alpha, beta, release candidate. Really early pre-production cars get a special VIN with the "H" plant code.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
They are supposed to NOT be for sale, period.
Reality says otherwise. I can sit all day here and list you pre-production BMWs and Mercedes that are on the road.



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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
You are correct in saying that some do become for sale through corporate personnel; but it's not the norm in any way nor is it something that commonly happens.
I'd say about 90% of BMW models got at least one pre-production car that was sold to the public. Sounds like a norm to me.

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Originally Posted by 10" View Post

My knowledge of this subject matter comes directly through friends and contacts who are auto executives at various car companies.
I don't know where your friends work, but selling pre-production and press cars is very common with BMW and Mercedes. I don't know about any other brands.
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      07-20-2018, 11:15 PM   #241
soco352
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Interesting stats...pretty cool to own such a low production vehicle.
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      07-21-2018, 05:15 AM   #242
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UK M2 LCI White Manual

Am I reading this correctly? Are there only 21 manual white LCI cars in the UK ?
If so I have a very rare car !
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