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M2 Technical Topics > N55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > THE ULTIMATE Intercooler Thread - What to Look For Before Buying an FMIC

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      02-02-2020, 01:50 AM   #441
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i barely fit my 5.5inch csf intercooler in my m2...i think a 6inch would be really pushing it, no way a 6.5inch would fit without removing the front braces.
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      02-10-2020, 08:18 AM   #442
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Question...I am planning on my M2 daily use, stage 1 (currently stock) and will most likely only get an exhaust system (not even downpipe)..Will you recommend to upgrade IC and charge pipes?

If so,which brand, size and why?

Car is 28k km, I live in Italy so I get the chance to fuel with 98/100 octanes
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      02-10-2020, 11:16 AM   #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski666 View Post
Question...I am planning on my M2 daily use, stage 1 (currently stock) and will most likely only get an exhaust system (not even downpipe)..Will you recommend to upgrade IC and charge pipes?

If so,which brand, size and why?

Car is 28k km, I live in Italy so I get the chance to fuel with 98/100 octanes
I would get a 5" intercooler + charge pipe since car will be tuned
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      02-11-2020, 10:27 AM   #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
I would get a 5" intercooler + charge pipe since car will be tuned
For example? CSF and Wagner?

Also, I am considering for an intake, but it looks like the money is not worth the effort, so I might just upgrade with a nice sport filter my oem airbox...
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      02-11-2020, 10:48 AM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski666 View Post
For example? CSF and Wagner?

Also, I am considering for an intake, but it looks like the money is not worth the effort, so I might just upgrade with a nice sport filter my oem airbox...
Both are quality replacements and much better than stock.
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      02-11-2020, 11:05 AM   #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oski666 View Post
For example? CSF and Wagner?

Also, I am considering for an intake, but it looks like the money is not worth the effort, so I might just upgrade with a nice sport filter my oem airbox...

Both these options are 5" , high quality intercoolers.

Other options include VRSF 5" & Active Autowerke
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      02-12-2020, 04:12 AM   #447
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And what about forge motorsport components? Has anyone tried that?
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      02-12-2020, 05:08 AM   #448
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Litchfield tuners in the UK use the forge intercooler, it's not a stepped design. I think it relies more on increased fin density than anything else and better flow design but don't quote me on that.
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      02-12-2020, 07:12 PM   #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
I would get a 5" intercooler + charge pipe since car will be tuned
If going Wagner for this setup evo 1 or 2? Seems like the larger evo 2 would be worth the better cooling w/o causing any lag due to the improved pressure drop?
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      02-12-2020, 07:28 PM   #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
If going Wagner for this setup evo 1 or 2? Seems like the larger evo 2 would be worth the better cooling w/o causing any lag due to the improved pressure drop?
Either one would work. If you live in a warm weather are, i would get the EVO II
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      03-03-2020, 12:38 PM   #451
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VRSF F chassis Intercooler

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      03-03-2020, 02:04 PM   #452
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What size is that?
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      03-03-2020, 07:45 PM   #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
What size is that?
5" Standard HD
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      03-03-2020, 08:36 PM   #454
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The VRSF intercooler at $340 is just an absolutely ridiculous price
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      03-03-2020, 08:44 PM   #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
5" Standard HD
For a car running stock tune but seeing lots of track time, would the VRSF 5” be enough?
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      03-03-2020, 11:54 PM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastieBombRacing View Post
For a car running stock tune but seeing lots of track time, would the VRSF 5” be enough?
it depends on your mods, if you are running stage 2 maps I recommend a 6" intercooler
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      03-04-2020, 06:28 AM   #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
it depends on your mods, if you are running stage 2 maps I recommend a 6" intercooler
I have no mods to the intake, exhaust, or maps of any kind.
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      03-04-2020, 07:58 AM   #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastieBombRacing View Post
I have no mods to the intake, exhaust, or maps of any kind.
I’ve narrowed my search down to 2 intercoolers - 3 maybe.

ER - the prior best intercooler. You don’t hear about it much anymore, but I’ve never seen anything bad about it, or anything compared to it really.

VRSF 6.5 and/or Race - Not sure this is the same, but these just get things done. They are old school. No rounded end ranks, or fancy design. It’s straight up big and that’s how the job gets done. It’s also cheaper.

ATM/CSF - I’ve read a ton. The most track worthy, holds records for fastest N55 (until recently I believe - I’m tired, I was up all night reading) the ATM should flow better and have less lag than the CSF, both are better than the Evo 2 from every test I’ve seen. Also cheaper.



Why not:

AA - too small. (Goes for all 5”cores)
eBay - Garbage
Wagner - Evo 3 has no test, the Evo 2 is outright inferior to the others mention in absolute cooling. Even the claimed faster recovery doesn’t measure up on the track where it heats up quicker and higher than the rest, and it’s smaller meaning it’s absolute ability to hold heat is lower.
Do88 - same as the Wagner. It’s better in terms of absolutes keeping temps, but it was 5* vs 10* or so for the ATM/CSF. No reason to buy this over the other more capable options.
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      03-04-2020, 08:19 AM   #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
I’ve narrowed my search down to 2 intercoolers - 3 maybe.

ER - the prior best intercooler. You don’t hear about it much anymore, but I’ve never seen anything bad about it, or anything compared to it really.

VRSF 6.5 and/or Race - Not sure this is the same, but these just get things done. They are old school. No rounded end ranks, or fancy design. It’s straight up big and that’s how the job gets done. It’s also cheaper.

ATM/CSF - I’ve read a ton. The most track worthy, holds records for fastest N55 (until recently I believe - I’m tired, I was up all night reading) the ATM should flow better and have less lag than the CSF, both are better than the Evo 2 from every test I’ve seen. Also cheaper.



Why not:

AA - too small. (Goes for all 5”cores)
eBay - Garbage
Wagner - Evo 3 has no test, the Evo 2 is outright inferior to the others mention in absolute cooling. Even the claimed faster recovery doesn’t measure up on the track where it heats up quicker and higher than the rest, and it’s smaller meaning it’s absolute ability to hold heat is lower.
Do88 - same as the Wagner. It’s better in terms of absolutes keeping temps, but it was 5* vs 10* or so for the ATM/CSF. No reason to buy this over the other more capable options.
I'm not really interested in one of the giant radiators that require modification or pulling the bumper off to install. If it's not plug and play, I've gotta pay my shop to install it, which increases the cost of the part exponentially. For my application, I look at it as more of a reliability mod. With the VRSF so cheap right now, I'm just wondering if it's enough of an upgrade over the stock intercooler to go for it.
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      03-04-2020, 08:59 AM   #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastieBombRacing View Post
I'm not really interested in one of the giant radiators that require modification or pulling the bumper off to install. If it's not plug and play, I've gotta pay my shop to install it, which increases the cost of the part exponentially. For my application, I look at it as more of a reliability mod. With the VRSF so cheap right now, I'm just wondering if it's enough of an upgrade over the stock intercooler to go for it.
Everything I listed is plug and play. The VRSF 6” may not cool as well as the others, but it is cheap.
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      03-04-2020, 09:18 AM   #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
I’ve narrowed my search down to 2 intercoolers - 3 maybe.

ER - the prior best intercooler. You don’t hear about it much anymore, but I’ve never seen anything bad about it, or anything compared to it really.

VRSF 6.5 and/or Race - Not sure this is the same, but these just get things done. They are old school. No rounded end ranks, or fancy design. It’s straight up big and that’s how the job gets done. It’s also cheaper.

ATM/CSF - I’ve read a ton. The most track worthy, holds records for fastest N55 (until recently I believe - I’m tired, I was up all night reading) the ATM should flow better and have less lag than the CSF, both are better than the Evo 2 from every test I’ve seen. Also cheaper.



Why not:

AA - too small. (Goes for all 5”cores)
eBay - Garbage
Wagner - Evo 3 has no test, the Evo 2 is outright inferior to the others mention in absolute cooling. Even the claimed faster recovery doesn’t measure up on the track where it heats up quicker and higher than the rest, and it’s smaller meaning it’s absolute ability to hold heat is lower.
Do88 - same as the Wagner. It’s better in terms of absolutes keeping temps, but it was 5* vs 10* or so for the ATM/CSF. No reason to buy this over the other more capable options.
Just a note that I haven’t seen the M2 listed as an application for the ATM.

I’ll also make the same comment here that I did on the F30 board. Point is, the best IC for someone is the one that has the best blend of characteristics for their use, not just cooling capacity.

For me, a 10F IAT improvement isn’t going to make much of an impact for guys running Emixes on track. I wouldn’t trade to a 5-10lb heavier IC with worse throttle response to gain what would only be a few hp on an Emix tune on track.

If you run 93 octane on track, then the 10F difference will be noticeable on hot days.

To get a 20F+ difference over the Evo 2 Comp we’re talking about needing a massive IC, all of which are going to be 30lbs+. I haven’t seen that any of the massive bar/plate IC’s have that kind of performance gain without making lag even worse.

Apparently the Evo 3 achieves all these things from Wagner’s data, but no one knows why it will fit the M235i and not the M2.

Last edited by ZM2; 03-04-2020 at 09:36 AM..
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      03-04-2020, 10:17 AM   #462
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Garage List
Please stop spreading mis-information. The VRSF 6.5" Competition HD along with the 6.5" Race FMIC were both designed using CFD analysis and both incorporate incredibly efficient cast end tanks. The fin packs were specifically engineered to provide the best balance between external cooling and internal flow. There's nothing old school about our intercoolers

The VRSF 6.5" Race will outcool EVERY intercooler you've listed and it's currently featured on both the fastest N55 powered car along with the highest horsepower. It's less expensive because we don't slap on a BMW tax like the other brands mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
I’ve narrowed my search down to 2 intercoolers - 3 maybe.

ER - the prior best intercooler. You don’t hear about it much anymore, but I’ve never seen anything bad about it, or anything compared to it really.

VRSF 6.5 and/or Race - Not sure this is the same, but these just get things done. They are old school. No rounded end ranks, or fancy design. It’s straight up big and that’s how the job gets done. It’s also cheaper.

ATM/CSF - I’ve read a ton. The most track worthy, holds records for fastest N55 (until recently I believe - I’m tired, I was up all night reading) the ATM should flow better and have less lag than the CSF, both are better than the Evo 2 from every test I’ve seen. Also cheaper.



Why not:

AA - too small. (Goes for all 5”cores)
eBay - Garbage
Wagner - Evo 3 has no test, the Evo 2 is outright inferior to the others mention in absolute cooling. Even the claimed faster recovery doesn’t measure up on the track where it heats up quicker and higher than the rest, and it’s smaller meaning it’s absolute ability to hold heat is lower.
Do88 - same as the Wagner. It’s better in terms of absolutes keeping temps, but it was 5* vs 10* or so for the ATM/CSF. No reason to buy this over the other more capable options.
Here's a 2nd through 4th gear pull with our 6.5" Race FMIC. The starting temp is 89 degrees and ends at 86 degrees. 3 degrees lower than the initial starting temp.



Here's another set of logs from a customer who upgraded to the VRSF 6.5" Race FMIC from the Wagner Evo 2. He was seeing a 75 degree increase (37F - 112F) with the Wagner Evo 2 on a 2-5 gear pull where the VRSF only saw a 39 degree increase (50F to 89F).








Last edited by Tiago@VRSF; 03-04-2020 at 10:37 AM..
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