[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by Dav3

Maybe on the surface but with 500$ and a cellphone you can flash your M2C eu with the M2CS file

OG M2 need to go full FBO with a new Turbo and an aggressive Tune. All in all with HPFP limitations and more.

frank.m2 Same arguement as above. M2C is running a neutered M4 engine file but this can be unlocked on the cheap.

When M2CS will roll-out most M2C owners will be out of warranty making the flash tune a much more accessible option, rainy day fund permitting.

OG M2 also had dated interior and was limited both in color and cosmetic options (M seats, M-Mirrors, Dashboard) and relatively some tech (idrive)

Everything the M2CS has is easily retrofittable except the adaptive suspension. You're spending a 20,000$ premium for other freely accessible stuff.

Iirc with the e46 m3 csl most components you wanted to order where VIN locked. There upgrades where not a straight swap like now with the M2 CS.

I mean, say what you want but all the stuff on the M2CS is freely available on the M-Perf catalogue for the M2C. The engine is the same and through BM3 or other software you can flash tune to the CS file.

I'll wrap my car in bright pink hello kitty texture if they actually change internals or anything noteworthy beyond whats listed on the original picture in this thread.

The M2CS falls perfectly in-line with BMW's strategy of rolling out as many variants as possible in a short period of time.

In the course of 1.5 years from last delivery to first, we've had three BMW variants (OG, LCI, M2C). The way I see it, guys at BMW sat around a table and said "Okay, what can we sell now that will garner demand at the lowest cost for us?". The answer? "Let's get a M2C, give it an aggresive tune, throw-in all the M-Performance stuff so we don't need to engineer something new and let's add something new and hype it up (adaptive suspension)". The car cruising through racing rings is literally subtle marketing in it's best form.

Another perspective to keep on play is that some folks are in a position to pay a premium for the factory warranty, and to remove the need to "tune". I fall in this camp. I used to wrench on my car every weekend. Datalogging, refining Maps, etc. These days I don't have the time for it. If something breaks I don't have the time to troubleshoot or perform the repairs. I want to know that every day that I hop in to drive that's it's going to work.
Don't get me wrong, I understand the tuning we are discussing here is far less intrusive than what I was doing in the past. Reliability is probably less of a concern. I likely won't tune this car as I would have with the M2C.

[Io]

Originally Posted by Dav3

Maybe on the surface but with 500$ and a cellphone you can flash your M2C eu with the M2CS file
OG M2 need to go full FBO with a new Turbo and an aggressive Tune. All in all with HPFP limitations and more.

Agreed. To reach a stable power of 450hp, an OG needs a big FMIC + bigger turbo + new CP+IP+DV + chip tune, amounting to about 4500$. Which is no so much compared to the price of the car. For instance, it is less then the price of the M-perf hood alone that you have on the M2CS and not on the M2(C).
Furthermore with a milder tune (chip + FMIC), an OG reaches the 410hp of the M2C, and for 'only' 1500$. So I don't really see your point here

Originally Posted by Dav3

OG M2 also had dated interior and was limited both in color and cosmetic options (M seats, M-Mirrors, Dashboard) and relatively some tech (idrive)

For having an LCI and having tested a M2C, the only differences I noticed in this latter were the M-seats, the M1M2 buttons on the wheel, the new buttons close to the DKG stick, and the start button now in red. The dashboard and iDrive were exactly the same. In fact, in many countries, the M-seats are optional on the M2C, its "base" seats being the very same than the OG. So it's hard for me to see the OG/LCI interior outdated compared to the M2C
Compared to a brand new G20, yes the M2 interior looks outdated ... as do the interiors of the M2C and CS.

Originally Posted by Dav3

Everything the M2CS has is easily retrofittable except the adaptive suspension.

That's the beauty of the development of the M2 serie: most new stuffs are retrofittable on previous models. For instance, I have a M2C M-mirrors and seatbelts on my LCI, and soon its carbon strut brace. The more versions of the M2 are produced, the largest the choice for tuning your M2(C) at your will, which is great!
So if your point is that a M2C can be transformed into something very close to a M2CS, I agree. But it would cost really a lot. Here is my estimate: suspension= 5k$, hood= 5k$, roof= 4k$, fenders= 4k$, boot= 3k$, tune= 500$, wheel=1k$, seats = 5k$, total=26.5k$. And that is not yet a real, limited-edition M2CS, it is just a tuned m2C for which you will lose a lot at sale.

[Megator]

I suggest that anyone who wants an M2CS wait a year or 2 to get discounts.

There are 11 brand new M4 CSs for sale in Germany alone, dunno how that bodes for the "better" M4.


https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/s...alse&usage=NEW

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Megator

I suggest that anyone who wants an M2CS wait a year or 2 to get discounts.

There are 11 brand new M4 CSs for sale in Germany alone, dunno how that bodes for the "better" M4.


https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/s...&usage=NEW

The M3/4 CS is overpriced. Only after significant discounts did I even consider one. If BMW makes the same mistake with the M2 CS, I don't know if they can move them given the lower RV the M2 has built into the leases. Big discounts and decent RV is what finally moved M3/4 CS units.

[Throttleblip]

Originally Posted by Megator

I suggest that anyone who wants an M2CS wait a year or 2 to get discounts.

There are 11 brand new M4 CSs for sale in Germany alone, dunno how that bodes for the "better" M4.


https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/s...&usage=NEW

M3 CS owners - first impressions? https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1577136

Read this thread

[Dav3]

Originally Posted by Io

Agreed. To reach a stable power of 450hp, an OG needs a big FMIC + bigger turbo + new CP+IP+DV + chip tune, amounting to about 4500$. Which is no so much compared to the price of the car. For instance, it is less then the price of the M-perf hood alone that you have on the M2CS and not on the M2(C).
Furthermore with a milder tune (chip + FMIC), an OG reaches the 410hp of the M2C, and for 'only' 1500$. So I don't really see your point here



For having an LCI and having tested a M2C, the only differences I noticed in this latter were the M-seats, the M1M2 buttons on the wheel, the new buttons close to the DKG stick, and the start button now in red. The dashboard and iDrive were exactly the same. In fact, in many countries, the M-seats are optional on the M2C, its "base" seats being the very same than the OG. So it's hard for me to see the OG/LCI interior outdated compared to the M2C
Compared to a brand new G20, yes the M2 interior looks outdated ... as do the interiors of the M2C and CS.



That's the beauty of the development of the M2 serie: most new stuffs are retrofittable on previous models. For instance, I have a M2C M-mirrors and seatbelts on my LCI, and soon its carbon strut brace. The more versions of the M2 are produced, the largest the choice for tuning your M2(C) at your will, which is great!
So if your point is that a M2C can be transformed into something very close to a M2CS, I agree. But it would cost really a lot. Here is my estimate: suspension= 5k$, hood= 5k$, roof= 4k$, fenders= 4k$, boot= 3k$, tune= 500$, wheel=1k$, seats = 5k$, total=26.5k$. And that is not yet a real, limited-edition M2CS, it is just a tuned m2C for which you will lose a lot at sale.

1. I've seen a lot of big numbers on FBO OG M2's yet have never seen proper v-box/gps tracking to showcase the actual improvements in real life scenarios. If you can prove me wrong with proper footage I'll rest my case but the lack of proper evidence makes me believe those gains don't really convert to much. This said, power delivery and overall drivability of the car with FBO and a non-BMW tune isn't that great or reliable. This argument vs M2CS official map on M2C is bit of a apples and oranges argument.

2. When I say OG M2, I'm referring to the pre-lci variant. Rear/Front headlights, dashboard, iDrive to name a few just for that. M2C big upgrades are M-Seats and mirrors but there's also a lot of minor trivial thing's that add to it. MSRP gap of price between M2 and M2C wasn't that big, but the upgrades where huge starting from the engine itself.

3. My argument is not much about the cost of upgradability but rather the ease of upgradability. BMW should have made custom designed parts, not fish inside the regular M2C catalog. How can you consider the M2CS special if any M2C can easily aspire to become one. Even the extra stuff like the Adaptive Suspensions and Seats are pretty much recycled stuff from the M4. Come to think of it, even the tune as a baseline is probably recycled from the M4CS. It's not too unrealistic to actually interpret the continuous testing done as them struggling making it work without it becoming a future liability. Zero innovation and lazy approach.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Megator

I suggest that anyone who wants an M2CS wait a year or 2 to get discounts.

There are 11 brand new M4 CSs for sale in Germany alone, dunno how that bodes for the "better" M4.


https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/s...alse&usage=NEW

And how many non-CS M4 are for sale?

According to advertised production volumes, 20~25% of all M4 coupe production are CS...

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Megator

I suggest that anyone who wants an M2CS wait a year or 2 to get discounts.

There are 11 brand new M4 CSs for sale in Germany alone, dunno how that bodes for the "better" M4.


https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/s...&usage=NEW

How many m4cs cars did they make?

I feel like the m2cs might be more popular, but as the G series m3 gets closer people might not want to spend on an F series car.

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by Throttleblip

M3 CS owners - first impressions? https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1577136

Read this thread

I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. The M3 CS is pushing 911 or Cayman GT4 territory, and not being available with a manual is the thing that 100% prevents me from even considering one. It didn't really offer anything compelling for that price point either, even though I'm sure it drives very well.

With the M3/4 going out of production, the M2CS will finally be uncorked. Assuming it comes in around $80K without CCB's you're not quite pushing 911 prices yet and the other M cars will be out of production so it'll be quite a bit more compelling with less competition on the shelf.

Other key points:

The M2CS will be the first time the M2 gets adaptive suspension (the main reason I didn't get an M2C)

The M2CS will be the first manual available in a CS - spec M car

The S55 is a far, far better engine than the flat-4 in the cayman

The M2CS will be the last hurrah of the F generation of M-cars . . . it'll encompass all of the development knowledge gained over the past 8 years distilled down into the smallest, sportiest car BMW makes.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Dav3

1. I've seen a lot of big numbers on FBO OG M2's yet have never seen proper v-box/gps tracking to showcase the actual improvements in real life scenarios. If you can prove me wrong with proper footage I'll rest my case but the lack of proper evidence makes me believe those gains don't really convert to much. This said, power delivery and overall drivability of the car with FBO and a non-BMW tune isn't that great or reliable. This argument vs M2CS official map on M2C is bit of a apples and oranges argument.

2. When I say OG M2, I'm referring to the pre-lci variant. Rear/Front headlights, dashboard, iDrive to name a few just for that. M2C big upgrades are M-Seats and mirrors but there's also a lot of minor trivial thing's that add to it. MSRP gap of price between M2 and M2C wasn't that big, but the upgrades where huge starting from the engine itself.

3. My argument is not much about the cost of upgradability but rather the ease of upgradability. BMW should have made custom designed parts, not fish inside the regular M2C catalog. How can you consider the M2CS special if any M2C can easily aspire to become one. Even the extra stuff like the Adaptive Suspensions and Seats are pretty much recycled stuff from the M4. Come to think of it, even the tune as a baseline is probably recycled from the M4CS. It's not too unrealistic to actually interpret the continuous testing done as them struggling making it work without it becoming a future liability. Zero innovation and lazy approach.

I think they'll lean on the CF roof as special to the car because most don't want to rip the roof off a m2c.

However you could just get an m3 or m4.

[kyrix1st]

This confirms the real bargain is used M4 from ‘14 to mid ‘17.

They took away CFRP driveshaft from base M3/M4s to have them exclusively on M3/M4 CS models. Typical ///Marketing.

That being said, I am very excited about this car! Everything else checks out nicely.

[MrOhnoez]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

This confirms the real bargain is used M4 from ‘14 to mid ‘17.

They took away CFRP driveshaft from base M3/M4s to have them exclusively on M3/M4 CS models. Typical ///Marketing.

That being said, I am very excited about this car! Everything else checks out nicely.

Ive seen probably dozens upon dozens of m3/mr lifted up all throughout the years. Ive seen the bulletin stating the change. I never saw it occur in the cars. Buddy had an M3 that had the engine replaced, still CF driveshaft. I dunno if they ever actially executed the change as Ive never seen an M3/4 with the steel shaft.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by MrOhnoez

Ive seen probably dozens upon dozens of m3/mr lifted up all throughout the years. Ive seen the bulletin stating the change. I never saw it occur in the cars. Buddy had an M3 that had the engine replaced, still CF driveshaft. I dunno if they ever actially executed the change as Ive never seen an M3/4 with the steel shaft.

It affects some F8x built from October 2017. Easiest way to tell is to see if the muffler has an OPF filter near the rear exhaust. I've seen 2018 Competition models with steel driveshafts. It might not have affected US models; the RoW got EU models.

[RPM33]

Does any of the insiders know when the price is going to be leaked or revealed for the M2 CS? That will be the next big reveal.

[scoale]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

This confirms the real bargain is used M4 from ‘14 to mid ‘17.

They took away CFRP driveshaft from base M3/M4s to have them exclusively on M3/M4 CS models. Typical ///Marketing.

That being said, I am very excited about this car! Everything else checks out nicely.

Agree 100% that a used M is a real bargain. Bought a low mileage '16 M3 for $47k. A HELL of a lot of car for $47k. There is ZERO doubt in my mind that the CS is significantly better, and all of the glowing reviews from the owners do temp me to make a terrible financial decision, LOL. But I'm pretty happy with my '16 and we will see what the new M is like in a few years. If I don't like it, maybe I can pry a used M2 or M3/4CS away from an owner that wants to move on to the next thing!

[babym2]

does anyone know when we can order the CS spoiler

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by babym2

does anyone know when we can order the CS spoiler

You probably won't be able to order the original spoiler or only if maybe IND gets one..

Limited Production BMWs are what parts department calls "vin-locked" meaning only if you own the vehicle and can provide proof of such, only then can you order parts or any designated accessories for that particular vehicle.

More in-depth details here:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=101635

[AUSf22]

Originally Posted by Poochie

You probably won't be able to order the original spoiler or only if maybe IND gets one..

Limited Production BMWs are what parts department called "vin-locked" meaning only if you own the vehicle and can provide proof of such, only then can you order parts or any designated accessories for that particular vehicle.

More in-depth details here:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=101635

Hmm... Dealerships in AU have sold M3/4 CS spoilers and front lips to non CS owners

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by AUSf22

Hmm... Dealerships in AU have sold M3/4 CS spoilers and front lips to non CS owners

Yep...easy. Plenty of CS VIN numbers available at any dealership

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by AUSf22

Hmm... Dealerships in AU have sold M3/4 CS spoilers and front lips to non CS owners

That's odd, they not suppose to..

I guess you must of gotten lucky and your order slipped through the cracks..

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by Poochie

That's odd, they not suppose to..

I guess you must of gotten lucky and your order slipped through the cracks..

Nah...they are there to provide after sales support and maintain customer loyalty. Haven’t heard of any dealership here won’t do it for their customer

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

Nah...they are there to provide after sales support and maintain customer loyalty. Haven't heard of any dealership here won't do it for their customer

Well, here in North America, it's not even an option; when you attempt to order a limited production part, they ask you for your registration or similar proof of ownership.

Too many people before us screwed it up, so there are protocols in place to avoid abuse and to maintain a proper inventory for those that actually own the limited production vehicle and might need the part.

The parts department wouldn't mine taking my money but the order would eventually get rejected, if they don't follow the proper verification and ordering process.