BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M2 Forum > M2 Photos, Videos and Builds > BMW M2 at Nordschleife BTG time 7:50

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-14-2016, 08:01 AM   #45
marcva
Captain
United_States
378
Rep
647
Posts

Drives: E36 M345
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vienna, Virginia, USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Jason View Post
Thank you! A lot of laps! But you can just buy a Playstation and Gran Turismo and you will learn it also in a safer circumstance
Are the Sim versions accurate enough? I've heard the 'Ring teachers loathe anyone who has learned the track on a sim. I suppose as long as you keep it in perspective as a relative orientation and get a sense of the relative braking and cornering of your real car vs the virtual one...


Marcva
Appreciate 0
      07-14-2016, 08:22 AM   #46
Robin_NL
S0THPAW
Robin_NL's Avatar
8680
Rep
7,846
Posts

Drives: HS M2 Competition
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcva View Post
Are the Sim versions accurate enough? I've heard the 'Ring teachers loathe anyone who has learned the track on a sim. I suppose as long as you keep it in perspective as a relative orientation and get a sense of the relative braking and cornering of your real car vs the virtual one...


Marcva
GT/iRacing/AC are very accurate: iRacing and AC are laserscanned afaik.
Dunno about Gran Turismo.

But it's more about getting to know the track that way than going like an idiot the first time you're actually there!(because you 'know' the Nordschleife).

Cheers
Robin
Appreciate 4
      07-14-2016, 09:00 AM   #47
Rude Boy
Second Lieutenant
61
Rep
201
Posts

Drives: M4 6MT
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Queens NY

iTrader: (0)

Great Driving out there!
Appreciate 1
      07-14-2016, 09:10 AM   #48
adc
Major General
United_States
2725
Rep
6,750
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ED
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD/DC

iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
The M2 brakes seem to not be " M worthy ". Definitely the weakest stock brakes on an M car since I can remember.

Clearly BMW NA (and probably AG) recognizes this because at all the track days they slap on " M performance pads ".

Maybe the complaints about brake dust over the years caused them to go with a weaker pad compound ?
It's pointless, no BMW has ever come stock with track ready pads except the GTS which has the carbon ceramics. And they have been the same shitty pads in all the generations since E36, IMO you are wrong about the compound being degraded recently. Maybe your skill/speed has gone up along with the generations.

Track pads was the absolute first mod I did.
__________________

2018 F80 Santorini
2019 Z4 3.0i
2022 X2 M35i
Appreciate 1
      07-14-2016, 10:21 AM   #49
M3 Adjuster
Banned
Albania
7905
Rep
11,785
Posts

Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
The M2 brakes seem to not be " M worthy ". Definitely the weakest stock brakes on an M car since I can remember.

Clearly BMW NA (and probably AG) recognizes this because at all the track days they slap on " M performance pads ".

Maybe the complaints about brake dust over the years caused them to go with a weaker pad compound ?
It's pointless, no BMW has ever come stock with track ready pads except the GTS which has the carbon ceramics. And they have been the same shitty pads in all the generations since E36, IMO you are wrong about the compound being degraded recently. Maybe your skill/speed has gone up along with the generations.

Track pads was the absolute first mod I did.

Nearly every BMW I have driven was at least a car that could be taken to track by a novice or intermediate driver with the stock pads .. (Jurid for many years .. Now textar)

Perhaps you are correct , maybe this did begin earlier with the e46?

Agree speed and skill has gone up with the generations and of course the cars have gotten faster as well !


The 1M actually is terrific with stock pads whereas I faded the brakes on the M2 in about 5 laps when driving my 1M and an M2 on the same track on the same day with stock pads and street tires.
Appreciate 1
      07-14-2016, 10:36 AM   #50
MarineOh3
Second Lieutenant
MarineOh3's Avatar
United_States
113
Rep
210
Posts

Drives: 2012 F30 / 2016 F15
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

iTrader: (0)

I love these videos. Great driving and the sound out of that M2 is absolutely amazing.

I laughed at the beginning. Must have been doing 240kph and just having a conversation with your A-driver... Priceless.
__________________
2012 328i Sport Line - JB on Coral Red
2016 X5 35d M Sport Line - CBM on Ivory White and Black Dakota
Appreciate 1
      07-14-2016, 10:46 AM   #51
Boss330
Major General
Boss330's Avatar
No_Country
1712
Rep
5,108
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraser
Need more handicaps? ��
Awesome vid, really enjoyed it and you're saying you think it could do 7.40's, that's impressive, Fezza's, Lambo's and gt2/3 space? Wow
Although your comparison perhaps was between BTG laps for the cars you mentioned (?), on a general note it's important to keep in mind that a full lap is quite a bit longer than a BTG lap and that lap times can't be compared between the two.
Appreciate 1
      07-14-2016, 10:47 AM   #52
bradleyland
TIM YOYO
United_States
1504
Rep
3,282
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcva View Post
Are the Sim versions accurate enough? I've heard the 'Ring teachers loathe anyone who has learned the track on a sim. I suppose as long as you keep it in perspective as a relative orientation and get a sense of the relative braking and cornering of your real car vs the virtual one...


Marcva
The problem with someone who has learned the track on a sim is overconfidence. Like Robin_NL mentioned, some of the sims have laser scanned tracks, but even that can't prepare you to go 10/10ths on your first time out.

I've never driven the Nurburgring in real life, but I've done so many laps of the circuit in simulators that I could see the danger in actually going there and driving it. Going fast is about finding your rhythm. To go really fast, you have to be driving two, sometimes three curves ahead. This is especially true on the Nordschleife, because of its complexity.

When you've driven hundreds of laps of the Nordschleife in a sim, it would be too easy to accidentally slip in to your "sim rhythm", ignoring the fact that you're there in real life, in a real car, with real track anomalies that aren't present in the sim version.

In a general sense though, I would say that many sims are absolutely accurate enough to teach you the basic driving line. As long as you don't take it that one step further and believe that you can go throw down your sub-8-minute sim laptime in real life on your first time out.
__________________
His: 2019 R1250GS - Black
Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech
Past: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT
Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport
Appreciate 3
      07-14-2016, 10:55 AM   #53
Boss330
Major General
Boss330's Avatar
No_Country
1712
Rep
5,108
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Jason
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraser View Post
Need more handicaps? ��
Awesome vid, really enjoyed it and you're saying you think it could do 7.40's, that's impressive, Fezza's, Lambo's and gt2/3 space? Wow
Yeah 7.40 is possible. I drove with a 75kg passenger and heavy stuff (around 15kilos) in the trunk.
I thought you were joking with the first comment.... Did you seriously drive on the ring with " junk in the trunk " ??

Over here that's pretty much forbidden... Course we also tend to make sure people wear helmets on track too.
The same rules apply on track days over here too.

But "tourist sessions" on the Nurburgring isn't technically a track day. It's a public toll road open to the public where all German traffic law applies. For instance, passing is only allowed to the left. Germany has free speed on certain parts of their roads, Nurburgring tourist sessions also have free speed. If you book a track day with one of the many events that take place there, the track is closed for the public and you need to wear a helmet etc.

So exactly like any other track day if you go on a track day. But tourist rides are NOT a track day event. Even though many drive like it's a track day though
Appreciate 0
      07-14-2016, 11:20 AM   #54
silverlude
Private
24
Rep
67
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Great driving and fun to watch, thanks for that precious moment!!!!
Appreciate 1
      07-14-2016, 12:41 PM   #55
bradleyland
TIM YOYO
United_States
1504
Rep
3,282
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
The same rules apply on track days over here too.

But "tourist sessions" on the Nurburgring isn't technically a track day. It's a public toll road open to the public where all German traffic law applies. For instance, passing is only allowed to the left. Germany has free speed on certain parts of their roads, Nurburgring tourist sessions also have free speed. If you book a track day with one of the many events that take place there, the track is closed for the public and you need to wear a helmet etc.

So exactly like any other track day if you go on a track day. But tourist rides are NOT a track day event. Even though many drive like it's a track day though
Do they allow you to drive on tourist days with a helmet (if you choose)? Just curious.
__________________
His: 2019 R1250GS - Black
Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech
Past: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT
Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport
Appreciate 0
      07-14-2016, 12:46 PM   #56
Benzima
Colonel
Benzima's Avatar
1322
Rep
2,924
Posts

Drives: 2017 BMW M2
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Montreal, CANADA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Jason View Post
Hi guys! Yesterday I did a lap around the Nordschleife in the BMW M2. The car really amazed me, it felt perfectly balanced and the power band was spot on. The car is completely stock and the only negative thing is that the brakes were starting to fade, not too big of a deal tho.

I was driving at a normal safe pace, trying not to push the car. It's a trackday, not a qualification like some people think

The BTG time is 7:50, but there is room of improvement. I think you can do with a stock M2 around the 7:40's if you really want to push.
Great review. Beside the brakes, what are your other comments about the car, considering your racing experience?
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-14-2016, 01:39 PM   #57
MagnusT
Captain
MagnusT's Avatar
Sweden
538
Rep
624
Posts

Drives: BMW M2
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Stockholm

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
Do they allow you to drive on tourist days with a helmet (if you choose)? Just curious.
Yup!
Appreciate 0
      07-14-2016, 01:47 PM   #58
Bosozoku
Almost completely sane
Bosozoku's Avatar
United_States
694
Rep
1,080
Posts

Drives: '17 M2, '00 S2000
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
The problem with someone who has learned the track on a sim is overconfidence. ...
Agree. If I ever get one of the driving sims (for my ancient PS2 even) I'll just crawl around the various tracks to learn the layouts. Not for braking or turn-in points.
__________________
'17 BMW M2 (BSM 6MT Exec CarPlay, TechnicPnP ASD bypass, IND M Perf shift knob + keyhole cover, Pedal Haus pedals + heel plate, 3M CR90 tint, BavSound Ghost woofers, Racing Dynamics strut tower brace, Dinan midpipe, Turner intercooler)
'00 Honda S2000 (Silverstone Metallic, black leather, factory titanium shift knob + front lip + trunk spoiler, front shock tower brace, front subframe x-brace)
Appreciate 0
      07-14-2016, 02:34 PM   #59
Kwando
Major
Kwando's Avatar
Canada
431
Rep
1,428
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: London, Ontario, Canada

iTrader: (1)

Nice driving! The car sounds great too!
Appreciate 1
      07-14-2016, 07:13 PM   #60
dammitcubs
Captain
No_Country
584
Rep
689
Posts

Drives: '16 M2 LBB
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Jose

iTrader: (0)

So then is the 7:58 times posted by BMW, What is that?
Appreciate 0
      07-14-2016, 07:16 PM   #61
DCG
REBEL
DCG's Avatar
United_States
781
Rep
1,269
Posts

Drives: BMW X4
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Appreciate 0
      07-14-2016, 09:52 PM   #62
bradleyland
TIM YOYO
United_States
1504
Rep
3,282
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by dammitcubs View Post
So then is the 7:58 times posted by BMW, What is that?
This is a bridge-to-gantry (BTG) time, which is shorter than a full lap. It's not possible to do a full lap at speed on tourist days, because cars enter & exit the track on the main straight.
__________________
His: 2019 R1250GS - Black
Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech
Past: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT
Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport
Appreciate 0
      07-14-2016, 09:53 PM   #63
dammitcubs
Captain
No_Country
584
Rep
689
Posts

Drives: '16 M2 LBB
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Jose

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the clarification
Appreciate 0
      07-14-2016, 10:05 PM   #64
Throttleblip
First Lieutenant
Throttleblip's Avatar
No_Country
423
Rep
394
Posts

Drives: BMW M4 ZCP 2016
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: usa

iTrader: (0)

Amazing skills!! Would love to see you drive an M4 zcp around the same track and get your comparison.
Appreciate 1
      07-15-2016, 03:24 AM   #65
DCG
REBEL
DCG's Avatar
United_States
781
Rep
1,269
Posts

Drives: BMW X4
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Smooth driving. The M2 looks real stable and flickable. Besides size how does the M2 compare to the M4 because these cars are getting to dam expensive.
Appreciate 1
      07-15-2016, 04:17 AM   #66
Jamie Vandenbalck
Belgian racing driver
Jamie Vandenbalck's Avatar
Belgium
227
Rep
86
Posts

Drives: BMW M4 CS
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
GT/iRacing/AC are very accurate: iRacing and AC are laserscanned afaik.
Dunno about Gran Turismo.

But it's more about getting to know the track that way than going like an idiot the first time you're actually there!(because you 'know' the Nordschleife).

Cheers
Robin
Indeed! On a simulator you learn everything about the track (or at least on a good simulator). Off or on-camber corners, bumps, braking points, steer-in points and cte

But it's not because you are good on the sim, you are also good in the real thing
__________________
"Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary… that’s what gets you.” ― Jeremy Clarkson
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bmw, hotlap, nordschleife, onboard

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:39 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST