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      08-04-2018, 06:46 AM   #89
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MT for driving.
MT for me.
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      08-04-2018, 07:14 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
Yes, a MT has more driving engagement, sure, but not due to ridiculous tax €8.000,-- more .

So yes I do love my current 6MT, IMHO the best BMW MT tranny ever, that means the shifter, not the clutch!! To little to late it is, dead feeling.

So if there`s not a 718 GT4 PDK coming I'm going the M2C DCT route.

Patience I must have
“If you end your training now — if you choose the quick and easy path as others did — you will become an agent of evil.”
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      08-04-2018, 07:26 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
Yes, a MT has more driving engagement, sure, but not due to ridiculous tax €8.000,-- more .

So yes I do love my current 6MT, IMHO the best BMW MT tranny ever, that means the shifter, not the clutch!! To little to late it is, dead feeling.

So if there`s not a 718 GT4 PDK coming I'm going the M2C DCT route.

Patience I must have
Well here in the US it just takes $2900 bucks off the car. Here are the reasons I ticked manual before I canceled my order.

- $2900 cheaper
- more reliable / less maintenance
- can handle a lot more power without upgrading clutches
- more engaging (personal opinion)

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      08-04-2018, 09:08 AM   #92
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I am tired of discussions like this. Here please find attached ultimate manual vs dct MANUAL. You are welcome.
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      08-04-2018, 09:28 AM   #93
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I know a lot of u despises this guy but kinda right on all points:



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      08-04-2018, 10:18 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veebee View Post
I am tired of discussions like this. Here please find attached ultimate manual vs dct MANUAL. You are welcome.
This flow chart is F'ing brilliant!

If only every hard decision in life could be so easily resolved. Can you do these on commission? Right now, I'm trying to decide between Chick-Fil-A or In-n-Out for lunch.
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      08-04-2018, 11:39 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
Yes, a MT has more driving engagement, sure, but not due to ridiculous tax €8.000,-- more .

So yes I do love my current 6MT, IMHO the best BMW MT tranny ever, that means the shifter, not the clutch!! To little to late it is, dead feeling.

So if there`s not a 718 GT4 PDK coming I'm going the M2C DCT route.

Patience I must have
Well here in the US it just takes $2900 bucks off the car. Here are the reasons I ticked manual before I canceled my order.

- $2900 cheaper
- more reliable / less maintenance
- can handle a lot more power without upgrading clutches
- more engaging (personal opinion)

Is it more reliable? Have there been more problems with DCT than MT? I recall someone had BMW replace their MT components in an M2 but I'm not aware of anyone having their DCT replaced.

I periodically check the e90 and f80 forums for DCT reliability problems and besides people asking if this clunk or that clunk is normal serious problems seem rare.


Now if there is something wrong, it's more complicated and expensive to deal with, but as far as reliability, I'm not seeing any data that suggests it compares unfavorable to the MT.
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      08-04-2018, 11:52 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cptobvious View Post
This flow chart is F'ing brilliant!

If only every hard decision in life could be so easily resolved. Can you do these on commission? Right now, I'm trying to decide between Chick-Fil-A or In-n-Out for lunch.
Saturday chick-fil-a and Sunday in-n-out. Easy!
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      08-04-2018, 11:57 AM   #97
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The above posted flow chart is nice, but does not do all discussions justice concerning DCT vs MT

It is not only a "MECHANICAL" difference, my posts earlier made clear there`s also a "FINANCIAL" motivation to pick a certain type of tranny !!!


So nice flow chart, but if in the USA a 6MT would be $10.000,-- more expensive compared to a DCT I would gladly see here the discusion again !
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      08-04-2018, 12:03 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
The above posted flow chart is nice, but does not do all discussions justice concerning DCT vs MT

It is not only a "MECHANICAL" difference, my posts earlier made clear there`s also a "FINANCIAL" motivation to pick a certain type of tranny !!!


So nice flow chart, but if in the USA a 6MT would be $10.000,-- more expensive compared to a DCT I would gladly see here the discusion again !
That is a crazy emissions tax! BTW, your avatar is cool.
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      08-04-2018, 12:11 PM   #99
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Wish the M2 only came in MT like the 1M, then we wouldn't be having these posts about MT vs DCT. But then the forums would be boring
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      08-04-2018, 12:12 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
The above posted flow chart is nice, but does not do all discussions justice concerning DCT vs MT

It is not only a "MECHANICAL" difference, my posts earlier made clear there`s also a "FINANCIAL" motivation to pick a certain type of tranny !!!


So nice flow chart, but if in the USA a 6MT would be $10.000,-- more expensive compared to a DCT I would gladly see here the discusion again !

Oh, yeah, totally agreed. If the government here in the U.S. imposed some stupid emissions regulation that made it such that MT cost $10,000 more than DCT, it would be time to overthrow the government. The insurrection I would lead would make the Boston Tea Party look like child's play!
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      08-04-2018, 12:15 PM   #101
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^Wel, it shows how crazy the EU CO2/NOx emissions rules/legislation and WLTP cycle regulations have gone, and it has only just started
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      08-04-2018, 12:18 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atxsk8r View Post
Wish the M2 only came in MT like the 1M, then we wouldn't be having these posts about MT vs DCT. But then the forums would be boring
Then it would be an argument about wheels, exhaust, colors, etc.
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      08-04-2018, 01:38 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
Yes, a MT has more driving engagement, sure, but not due to ridiculous tax €8.000,-- more .

So yes I do love my current 6MT, IMHO the best BMW MT tranny ever, that means the shifter, not the clutch!! To little to late it is, dead feeling.

So if there`s not a 718 GT4 PDK coming I'm going the M2C DCT route.

Patience I must have
Well here in the US it just takes $2900 bucks off the car. Here are the reasons I ticked manual before I canceled my order.

- $2900 cheaper
- more reliable / less maintenance
- can handle a lot more power without upgrading clutches
- more engaging (personal opinion)

Is it more reliable? Have there been more problems with DCT than MT? I recall someone had BMW replace their MT components in an M2 but I'm not aware of anyone having their DCT replaced.

I periodically check the e90 and f80 forums for DCT reliability problems and besides people asking if this clunk or that clunk is normal serious problems seem rare.


Now if there is something wrong, it's more complicated and expensive to deal with, but as far as reliability, I'm not seeing any data that suggests it compares unfavorable to the MT.
DCT are known to leak and often warp their oil pans needing replacement. Also the side seals can leak and that costs more to fix than the pan.
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      08-04-2018, 02:47 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy92 View Post
I went for DCT as although I loved manuals in the past, those automatic gearboxes have become so good in speed and fuel consumption for DD that I would not revert back. Yes MT is engaging, but how many times do you really need that ?
All the time, manual is not for the faint of heart
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      08-04-2018, 04:46 PM   #105
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I'll offer a bit of a different view to this tired topic. I've owned a number of manual cars, including a couple of 911's. The M2 manual is fun, but it is far from a Porsche. Part of the magic, a tight shifter, rifle bolt shifts, a tight clutch and a very responsive engine to allow smooth 1st to 2nd shifts, are all missing from the M2. Yes, it is more engaging than the DCT, but it isn't magic. I've owned my M2 for over a year and I'm going DCT.
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      08-04-2018, 06:11 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veebee View Post
I am tired of discussions like this. Here please find attached ultimate manual vs dct MANUAL. You are welcome.
Thats an interesting chart but too theoritical for me (are u a consultant?), as an advise from a M2 DCT owner, just buy a manual M2C, or don't buy a M2 at all ... you will love it and less ask yourself afterwards whether it was the right choice ...
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      08-04-2018, 07:48 PM   #107
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Yes, this is a difficult question, but I think it's wonderful that BMW still has this option. Especially with all the current trends to go automatic and the dreaded electric sports car inevitability. I have not yet decided, as I am gathering information, but my gut says that I better enjoy a proper sports car with a manual before they are gone for good!

I think it really depends upon your needs, desires, and goals. Do you live in constant traffic? Is your car a daily driver? Do you have to have the fastest M2 possible? Do you ever plan to race this car? Which option appears to be objectively better to the pros? What will the resale market bring? Which costs more to repair? What will the wife agree to drive when helping finance the purchase? lol...

I test drove a manual M240i because all the M2s were sold and only one was stuck on the showroom floor. The 240i alone was Awesome! And it hearkened me back to my youth. I felt more engaged in the drive and made the drive more alive. That being said, I hated the part where I had to deal with traffic and the stop and go frustration in order to get to the freeway. I certainly was not going to be sipping coffee and driving an M2.

I plan to be a Sunday driver. I live on the rural side of town. My Arizona back yard is replete with endless mountains and corners. I’m older and not concerned with having the fastest car. And high-end sports cars are ubiquitous here, so I will never be top dog in my town.
What ever you decide to go with I hope you enjoy such a freedom. Paul

Last edited by PaulAZ; 08-04-2018 at 07:49 PM.. Reason: Add a proper :)
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      08-04-2018, 09:23 PM   #108
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For me, a sports car should be a manual even though I understand DCT is faster. Call me old school I guess.
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      08-04-2018, 09:36 PM   #109
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The DCT probably gives you that extra pull because there is no delay between shifting gears like a manual.

I could see the advantage to that but sometimes it's not all about sheer strait speed but more of how it feels to create it yourself..

And also, you know kids in 20 years are not even going to be having this dispute 'cause the manual will go the way of the dinosaurs...
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      08-04-2018, 10:49 PM   #110
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Couldn't care less about differences in cost, efficiency, speed, etc - I simply enjoy stirring the shifter and working the clutch.

Yes, even in traffic.

No manual, no purchase consideration. All respect to those who choose DCT - it's no slushbox - in fact, I'd be happy to have one in a dedicated track toy.

We'll all be sorry when BOTH are extinct. The only good thing about that is these threads will cease.
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